Bullet Making (originally owned by Stephen Perry)

caroby said:
Thinners is no good for cleaning jackets as it will only degrease the jacket to some degree but not strip the tarnish . It is also a bit greasy itself and leaves a slight residue on the surface .
Using a dilute acid wash is much better as a water rinse will combine with any acid and wash it away leaving a squeeky clean surface . The water can evaporate leaving no residue .
For washing cores to remove swage lube Thinners does a reasonable job of degreasing but still leaves some slight residue on evaporation.
Shellite (lighter fluid) is way better. It degreases well and evaporates quickly leaving little or no residue and it is nicer to use than thinners.
I have tried every solvent know to man and Shellite is the one I settled on.

Thanks for the input Mr. Valentine... Will give it some thought.

Just wondered...? If one is to use water to rinse... I'd believe using R.O. Reverse Osmosis water is the only way. Leaving lime (hard water) (from tap or filtered only water) deposits behind on the jackets is gonna do damage to the core and point dies...

One thing for sure......... Many can see that there IS NOT just one way to make bullets............ Best thing a new bullet maker can do is to work with a seasoned veteran that KNOW Benchrest caliber bullets. Just the same as one wanting to shoot competitively... A Solid mentor is MOST important.

Learn one way then in time try some new things...

Tip... Buy as much of one lot of jackets/per caliber & jacket length as you can afford... If too you are setteled on one weight and have a "match" as far as core seat punch to jacket lot and bullet weight... Then you are golden... Well, till you have to buy another lot of jackets...

To Stephen and all.... Just curious to how many core seat punches you have on hand for say.... making 68gr bullets off a .825 long jacket... Myself I have right around 7 punches at .0004-.0005 increments for each weight 6mm .790 62gr / 65gr / 66gr......... 6 punches 6mm .825 66gr / 67gr / 68gr... Then around 10 punches for my .224 bullets .705 / .740 jackets... Buncha punches..! Way it is for the bullet maker... Still will need more punches in the future... I'm sure.


cale
Click to expand...

Thats a good point and I have thought of that also. However if you heat the water off straight away after rinsing with a hair dryer it leaves nothing on the jackets that I can detect. If anyone is concerned about this then a last rinse with solvent would remove any water. However water is a good neutraliser of acid.
I have not found it to be a problem but perfection is the goal .
I can see that j4 jackets are fairly clean when delivered but if they sit around for some time they still tarnish and evn if they are still clean I still like to remove all the tarnish . It makes for a nice slick ejecting bullet.
 
Br Bullet making

Im glad you guys touched on the washing.
I don't wash mine now and am having good results with coring up the
Jackets.
I do wash the finished bullet. As i said i use Hot tap water in a bucket with dishwashing detergent. I sturr them around with a wooden stock and rinse. My water is Very hot. I then place them on a towel and dry them.
The bullets are them put on a second towel and rolled around.
Between the two towels and the hot rinse water , the water either evaporates off or is pulled out by rolling them and fluffing them around.
Lubing and pointing.
A lot of people lube the jacket prior to inserting the cores.
I dont. I insert the cores in the new jackets and have them ready before
I seat them . THATS when the lube comes in. I have this lube BOB
Simonson made up for me. It looks like vaseline and is just as thick. i dip my finger in some and roll the jacket with between my thumb and forefinger place the jacket on the punch and seat.
When the jacket comes out of the seater The lube is perfect.
I place the lubed cored jacket on a tray and go to the next one.
When i have enough to point I simply put a small amount of lube back on my fingers and start point. I use just enough. My bullets have very few or very very faint marks at the nose, After washing they are gone.
I know this is different but it works for me
You can use a tumbler i have in the past , but you can also do it the way i do.
Setting the DIE
I think this is one of the critical things.
Setting it up may take a few Bullets but it's worth is so be patient''
After an initial setting. screw the die down a little at a time as the die comes down it will close the point more each time.
When you get to a point the bullet will stick in the point.
Dont panic'' Raise the handle on your press and rotate the top punch till it's free. screw the die down a tad more and repeat.
Rotate the top punch with the ejection pin. eject the bullet and start with a new core jacket. Repeat the pointing until it will eject. First Make sure the top punch is rotated and the ejection pin is free If it wont eject put a small piece of scap lead on the punch and raise the handle it will push the bullet farther into the die
Look at the point with a magnifing glass. the point must be as small as the die will allow. without any Burr
Or meplet on the point. when you have this the die and your bullets are correct If on occasioon a bullet sticks on the point . you need just a hair more adjustment. Dont mix bullets with different point settings.
 
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I am one who cleans jackets before doing anything. I (I know many of you are going to GASP) use MEK as it dries fast and leaves no residue. For a lube I use Ferris's old mixture of anhydrous lanolin and lard oil. Have tried the vasoline mix as well as others such as mink oil, but found that Ferris's mix works best for me.

I would tell newcomers that I don't know if bullet making is FUN, however like loading your own I find it rewarding. With that said I will be at the SS and I am considering selling my setup. I will NOT bring it with me (as it consists of 3 presses mounted to a steel beam), but will have pictures. All equipment (except punches) were made by Ferris.

JimP
 
Br bullet maing

Jim can you give us Ferris lube ratio?.
? lanolin ? lard oil
I use the lard oil for some machine work
 
questions and answers

Thanks Stephen, this has been a great thread. I know that we have been taken through the complete bullet making process, I hope that the rookies continue to ask questions. I haven't started making bullets yet, I'm waiting on my dies and press from Larry Blackmon. I know that I'll have a ton of questions when I start, right now I just don't know what they are.

Dan Honert
 
I agree with Dan Honert, this has been/still is a great thread. I too am a rookie and am anxious to get started making bullets. I have it all in place as far as the equipment and a place to do it, just waiting for a nice spring day to devote to jumping in. I have read these pages with great interest and look forward to seeing it continue.

Best,
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
 
Dan H said:
I haven't started making bullets yet, I'm waiting on my dies and press from Larry Blackmon. I know that I'll have a ton of questions when I start, right now I just don't know what they are.
Dan Honert
Click to expand...


Dan, hopefully you got my response to your email. If not, let me know and I'll resend it. Yahoo does funny things at times. :) -Al
 
Br bullet maing

Guys anytime your stuck and you need imput Just ask.
I'll try to answer your question, the best way i can
There are different imputs here , so try a few see what works best for you.
Good luck and i hope you Stay with it.
 
New at bullet Making

Guys, I am going to try my hand at making Bullets. The posts are very informative for me. I have spoken to Brian Nemi and I am about to purchase a set of 30cal carbide dies, punches,core cutter and conversion kits for my Rock Chucker presses. I have contacted a few of the Guys that make bullets and every one of them, has told me let me know if you need any help (questions)in this rewarding but can be yet frustrating endeavor. All I can say is what a Great Bunch of guys. I will have questions from time to time. And I thank all for any light they can shed upon this for me.

:):D
 
This is a very informative thread thanks for starting it Stephen.

Some of the questions I have are,

For someone thinking about making bullets is there a particular Ogive that is easier to make good bullets? Or is it just as easy to make good bullets no matter what the Ogive, 7, 8 double Ogive etc?

What extra steps are required to make a boattail bullet?

What jacket length is used to make particular bullets?

Ian
 
Br bullet maing

Ian Owen
I doesn't make any differance what ogive you use.
The finished bullet comes out on the point It's the same.

As to jackets that depends on the caliber your going to make.
Generaly the shorter the jacket the lighter the bullet.
Some do make lighter bullets on jacket that are one size up though.
I give and example
Usually the 6mm J4 .790 is best for the 65 to 66 graid max weight.
But some people use the .825 jacket that is used for the 68 gr and have good luck.
I can get real technical but you new and i don't want to confuse you.
If your in doubt about a certain bullet weight jacket combination
Just ask the great people at berger. Erick Steker is a great guy and willing to help.
Boat tail bullets were covered in this thread But here goes.
A boat tail take a different core seating die.
The boat tail is formed in the core seating operation and is supplied with a special punch to fit your point die.
Once you have the boat tail formed you need the special punch to point up This keeps the boat tail on the base. If you used the standard flat base punch with the point die on a boat tail bullet . you would deform the boat tail. The punch matches the boat tail
 
Br bullet maing

Lets talk about the Culver {upside down dies}
Ok some of you use Larry Blackmuns dies
Lets heare about those too.
 
Gerry, b&a didn't use a seperate die to form boattailsjust put the form in the internal punch.just as bob simonson used to do.for small amounts of bullets this works fine or to try a die to see how it will shoot as a boattail.i'm alittle hesitant to say this but there are alot of misconceptions being thrown around about making bullets,first cleanliness is VERY important this reduces premature wear on dies.core seating is the most important operation of the two or three that you will do. lube is also critical not so much as the type they all work but knowing how much and how to apply. i wouldn't recomend applying with fingers it will vary to much from bullet to bullet.if any one needs more info. they can email or send p.m. to discuss further i will give phone# to you. george ulrich
 
BR Bullet Making

Glad to see several guys are talking of getting into bullet making, hope this Thread gives them a head start. As I and several have mentioned having a Mentor from the beginning is helpful in selecting equipment for bullet making and having someone that can answer the many questions that popup in bullet making.

George, talking about B&A bulletmaking dies I was reading in the several chapters of The Ultimate in Rifle Precision with Townsend Whelen, editor, Third edition, 1954 about how early bullet making dies evolved. What interested me was the EU system, expanding up, that is common in todays bullet making dies. Also the trouble of getting good jackets back in the 1950's. When I say good jackets I mean jackets that concentricity is in the order of .0001-.0003. In earlier times .0003-.0004 were considerd benchrest quality jackets. You really needed a wide range of punches back then to deal with the variety of jackets that were available back in the 50's. Don't let anybody fool you though the early bullet makers were every bit as knowledgeable as todays bullet makers. BR back in the 40-50's for the most part was 10 shot group shooting. Some of the groups shot back then would be competititive with todays. So good bullet making has been going on a long time with jacket quality always the key to making good bullets. Today thanks to the fine work Berger's does making jackets we are in the .0001 or less range for jacket concentricity. Better jackets can make for better bullets if all the other steps are done properly. I use 3 core seating punches for 6mm bullets. One is the correct for the jackets I use and the other 2 are .0005 and under the diameter of my main punch. Fortunately I bought 50,000 jackets from the same run several years ago and haven't had to change punches. For 22 I have 5 punches all given to me by Allen Bench when I bought my Rorschach dies 8 years ago. I bought several cases of 22 jackets 6 years ago, so I have been able to core seat with the same punch. If and when I buy new jackets either 22 or 6 I will have to sit down and match punches to fit the new jackets.

For the newer guys again I would recommend you lube your jackets with the mmimum lube to complete the point-up operation. Lube controls the final diameter of your bullet. Lube acts as the hydraulic agent that when the lube is between the die and the jacket the force the dies applys to jacket changes the diameter of the finished bullet. Getting lube right and the same every time you lube jackets is one factor in producing consistent measured bullets. This is why most bullet makers roll their jackets in a jar or tub during the lubing stage and measure the amount of lube used. As far as what kind of lube to use several kinds have been mentioned in this Thread most are lanolin and something else.

As this Thread goes on I would hope to hear from more bullet makers. Like to hear from Eric Stecker I know he reads Benchrest Central. This Thread has gone way beyond my expectations but BR bullets are the hot item without BR quality bullets aggs in the .1's and .2's would be hard to come by. So my hat is off to all those that venture in making their own bullets, I have always enjoyed my time making bullets.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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Gerry: Where did you come up with J-4 jacket's being pure copper. Electrical wire is as close as your going to come to pure copper. Copper wire does not look anything like my J-4 jacket supply at any age due to oxidation. I have S.A.S, ( Ted Smith) B & A, Bahler die's so I have seen a die set for awhile. Where did you find this piece of information?
 
Stephen,yes in there time b&A changed the way bullets where being made for the better. i have 5 sets of there dies and the workmanship is 2nd to none. but there are more modern ways of doing things just the technology in measuring has gotten better with the use of electronics.i agree the least amount of lube you can get away with the better, but for someone starting out i would recomend a little more until they get the feel for what is going on.this saves akot of aggravation with stuck bullets.personally i like to lube twice but thats another story.good jackets are the key in material to great bullets, i have jackets from 4 different mfg's. and have tested all sorts of combinations you might be surprised at how little wall runout means as long as its within reason, still we all love to see '0' runout.jacket material is WAYmore important than t.i.r. also how much we bump up the jacket to finish size. also as for the expand up theory i know of 1 die maker that is swaging down instead of up. and know at least one bullet maker that is swaging down and his bullets are quite popular at this time.bullet making has been filled with alot of wives tales, there is no magic or vodoo its straight mechanics keep everything clean and repeat all the same you will make good bullets. george
 
Br bullet maing

B johnson.
That was written quite a while ago on a thread about bullet jackets.
Remington was the first to specify pure copper.
Maybe Eric will chime in. I'm just about posative on the pure copper.
I also believe it was written about in PS magazine a long time ago 70s
Article on J4 jackets
 
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