Sporter Class NBRSA

I don't know what I'm talking about here, well...a little...but it's been a long time. I don't believe folks attend benchrest matches because of the classes involved. They attend because of the competition and the little bit of fun they might have along the way. Yes, there's still an extreme level of competition but I think it ends there. That said, I'll move to the reason for the initial decrease in competitors...the price of gasoline. Gas went high and the guys that were just barely making it quit coming and matches haven't been the same since. Figure out a way to get those guys back! Match fees at $100 is probably not gonna do it.
 
Wilbur said:
I don't know what I'm talking about here, well...a little...but it's been a long time. I don't believe folks attend benchrest matches because of the classes involved. They attend because of the competition and the little bit of fun they might have along the way. Yes, there's still an extreme level of competition but I think it ends there. That said, I'll move to the reason for the initial decrease in competitors...the price of gasoline. Gas went high and the guys that were just barely making it quit coming and matches haven't been the same since. Figure out a way to get those guys back! Match fees at $100 is probably not gonna do it.
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I don't know about that, Wilbur. Gas today is less than half of what it was in 2008 and has been for a few years. I think in order to grow short range Benchrest we need more ranges to shoot. Look at FL, where I live, there are so very few places to practice that it is almost impossible. As far as matches FL now has NONE, we have lost them all. The nearest match is The Shamrock which is 600 miles away, St Louis is 1200, The Hog Roast is 950 and The SS is 1150 but at least we shoot 4 days and now 6 days. That's a long way for a two gun shot in two days. A shooter needs to travel one or two days each way and shoot a two gun. It's just not worth it. It amazes me since FL has a lot of available land and a lot of retired folks with pleanty of time and money to invest but short range Benchrest is dead.

If inventing new classes of guns is the answer, like 17.5 lb sporter, I'm all for it. We need to do something or we all will own some very expensive paper weights.
 
James A. Kelbly said:
My new Sporter, you obviously are not paying attention, WHAT CAN YOU BUILD BETTER AT 10.5 LBS, I would not waste my time trying to build new Sporter as you have no room to do anything new. A 10.5lb rifle means to do anything new with stock or barrel you have to suffer on the barrel or stock to make something new and this would decrease accuracy.

Someone else asked when last time I introduced someone to BR shooting, well yesterday would be the answer. I did not have the guy come out and shoot but I spent an hour with a possible newbie from another state and he is looking serious into shooting BR now. I also travel the country displaying our products and a BR rifle is ALWAYS on display and I am always promoting short range benchrest as well as other shooting disciplines. I was born and raised in this sport and I will die promoting BR shooting it is in my blood.

Bob brought upa lighter class, I could go for that as well as this would eliminate a LV rifle being used in Sporter and could bring in more shooters via hunting rifles. I could see that. It will more and likely not see much more experimatation but if it brings in new shooters I am for that.

I do not wish anyone to get upset, I am just disappointed in where short range BR shooting is, as far as numbers of shooters. I want to see us remain viable for the clubs and the competitors. Now for anyone thinking this is about business for me, short range BR shooting is less than 5% of our business and we are busier than ever. This is personal for me.

I just noticed we changed the Sporter to encourage experimentation and I see nothing getting built different than intended and I believe it is due to weight restriction. This is my opinion and after last nights election, I am still allowed to have an opinion. GO TRUMP

Jim
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Is what you're looking for something in-between HV and Unlimited? Maybe a new name for it would help.
 
adamsgt said:
Is what you're looking for something in-between HV and Unlimited? Maybe a new name for it would help.
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For years, the old name for this was a "cruiser rifle".

I'm not sure where that moniker originated, but it seems what is being proposed fits what that name represented.
 
jackie schmidt said:
For years, the old name for this was a "cruiser rifle".

I'm not sure where that moniker originated, but it seems what is being proposed fits what that name represented.
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Back in the day my dad was on the Detroit Police force. For a while he was placed on a four man squad that patrolled in a black Buick "Cruiser". Once a month they'd bring the Cruiser to our house because we had a finished basement. The guys would bring weaponry out of the Cruiser trunk into the basement for cleaning. I grew up on the smell of Hoppe's #9. There was quite an assortment of weaponry in that trunk. I remember being particularly impressed with the pump shotguns. They didn't let me see everything they had though.
 
Gentlemen,

Call it either "Experimental class" or "Developemental class". It would have two controling rules; max weight 17+/- pounds (whatever you settle on) and must be fired off our current style rests less the 3" forend requirement (unless you want to change that too) After that anything goes!

FWIW

Steve Kostanich
 
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Sorry to be a poop, but

all of you have directors. Jim, Jack Neary, Butch, Scott Hunter, and ????, Dan Zaccanti. Why don't the 3 of you get together and formulate a uniform common agenda item and get it submitted at the 2017 meeting. Coming from 3 different regions in a unified manner, I bet it will get some serious attention, especially since the current situation is so crappy. This forum is a great place to discuss, but we need SUBSTANCE. Make a real motion to the Board. Work it out by e-mail, phone, smoke signals, something. I am all for it!

David Halblom
 
I wonder if I could get my hands on a entire equipment list for The Nationals. I am curious as to how many shooters actually shot a Heavy Varmint Rifle in that class, or just continued with their best shooting LV.

I will E-Mail Berger. Perhaps they could help on this.

For years, the only thing that differentiated Sporter from LV was the caliber rule. I do remember at the last Nationals before the rule change, there were only 3 Rifles shot in class Light Varmint that were not, in truth, Sporters.
 
I am not all that wild about a new class...BUT if you want to do something interesting then go with Bob Brushingham's suggestion - lighter. Yeah, 8# is about right. Using the knowledge (and components) the BR game has developed in the last few decades on a what would be a hunting rifle platform could also spark some new shooters. Those outside the BR ring will look at a 17# gun and figure it is just another rail gun or something exotic. That was the original idea behind "Hunter" and "Varmint-Hunter" competition. Of course, that morphed into purpose built guns designed to win. Maybe....7.5# any scope, any stock...dunno. Food for thought. Again, I am not sure we need a new class.
 
Jackie - what it boils down to is that folks who own a HV that shoots better than their LV...will shoot the HV.
 
Steve Kostanich said:
Gentlemen,

Call it either "Experimental class" or "Developemental class". It would have two controling rules; max weight 17+/- pounds (whatever you settle on) and must be fired off our current style rests less the 3" forend requirement (unless you want to change that too) After that anything goes!

FWIW

Steve Kostanich
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Why not just call it SPORTER? The current Sporter layout is totally redundant. Sporter Class, IIRC, was introduced to force part of CF benchrest out of the 22 cal rut it was suck in at the time.

Some things like 27" minimum barrel length-most barrel blanks are 29".

Minimum bullet weight of, say, 80 grains. Bart shot his 80 grainer at the recent River Bend shoot, Berger offers 88 and 90 grainers in 6mm. I won a stack of wood at an IBS 600 Nationals a few years ago with the Berger 90 BT. Ferris Pindell took his 81 grain bullet loads to the Crawfish several years ago-Don Geraci said that bullet "defied the wind".

So????


.



Directors-give us a WORTHWHILE challenge and that AIN'T lighter!!

.
 
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JerrySharrett said:
Why not just call it SPORTER? The current Sporter layout is totally redundant. Sporter Class, IIRC, was introduced to force part of CF benchrest out of the 22 cal rut it was suck in at the time.

Some things like 27" minimum barrel length-most barrel blanks are 29".

Minimum bullet weight of, say, 80 grains. Bart shot his 80 grainer at the recent River Bend shoot, Berger offers 88 and 90 grainers in 6mm. I won a stack of wood at an IBS 600 Nationals a few years ago with the Berger 90 BT. Ferris Pindell took his 81 grain bullet loads to the Crawfish several years ago-Don Geraci said that bullet "defied the wind".

So????


.Pindell took his 81 grain bullet loads to the Crawfish several years ago-Don Geraci said that bullet "defied the wind".




Directors-give us a WORTHWHILE challenge and that AIN'T lighter!!

.
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.Pindell took his 81 grain bullet loads to the Crawfish several years ago-Don Geraci said that bullet "defied the wind".

POISON
 
We need to look at all aspects of what will give us more competitors to our sport.

A light weight class say "sportsman's class" anything under 8'lbs shot off sand bag's. Might draw your average hunter or shooter that have a good hunting or varmint rifle. If we get that person to the range help them out and let them shoot your competition rifle.

Or do we want to target a new class "Custom Sporter" 15 lbs and up drawing new competitors from other shooting sports. Such as F-class, 600 yds, 1000 yds shooters.

If were looking for a challenge light weight barrels as we all know are a real challenge to shoot a good agg!

If were looking for innovation Heavy weights such as Unlimited class should be true unlimited class If it's safe to shoot build it! that would make all the machinist and innovators put their thinking caps on.

Whatever we do increasing attendance should be our main goal!

Russ
 
Dave Coots said:
.Pindell took his 81 grain bullet loads to the Crawfish several years ago-Don Geraci said that bullet "defied the wind".

POISON
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Ha, ha, Dave, I have one of those bullets. I found a loaded round in Ferris's note drawer, loaded. Loaded in a 40 degree PPC like I shot for a few years. I haven't identified the powder it was loaded with though. T32, T322, looks like. One of Ferris notes on it was "the first 6 went exactly through the same hole".


.
 
If you want to have something different in the sporter class, all you need to do is require that the caliber be anything but a 6mm.

JIm
 
DT1 said:
.25 caliber or larger!
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Caliber restriction is what compelled shooters to develop the 6mm in short range Benchrest.

Back in the day, when the 22 cal ruled Benchrest, I suppose the powers that be decided the sport needed a class that banned the 22, and made Sporter 23 caliber and above.The invention of the 6PPC showed that a 6mm could agg just as well, possibly better than a 22.

I suppose this was also back when Benchrest wanted to keep some tie, though vague, to what the rest of the shooting world recognized as a rifle.

The 22 didn't completely disappear, but as more and more shooters found out that they could build a 6mm to compete in all three classes, it was sure put on life support.

So perhaps if the NBRSA stated that Sporter could be anything but a 6mm, would we then see a resurgence in perhaps a larger caliber, or maybe even the 22 again. (Back to square one with that).

I did not mention the 30 cal because it already has it's following in Varmint for Score.

I think the NBRSA will always need a class that allows one Rifle to be used in all three Bag Gun Classes, (and be competitive), which is what many shooters do. For years, it was the Sporter chambered in 6PPC, which evolved into nothing but a 6mm Light Varmint. Now, it is Light Varmint, since if you do take advantage of all of the rules in Sporter, it is rendered illegal in LV and HV.

Maybe we should just leave it alone. Let the shooter with the best barrel, the best bullets, the best tune, and the best ability win.

Novel concept, huh?
 
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