Simple cleaning rod question.

T

tcjones

Guest
I have read a lot on the matter of steel cleaning rod damage from improper use. What is your take on the carbon fiber rods?
Thanks, Tom
 
Haven't looked at any in years but I never seen one that was straight. The problems might have gotten fixed, I just don't know.

Hovis
 
I like the carbon fiber rods. I feel they get a bad rap for abrasion. Yes, carbon fiber is abrasive to cutting tools, but the rods are laid up length wise. Big difference IMHO. If they were so bad, you'd think you could at least file your fingernails with one, but no. They won't even polish your nails, so I doubt they'll hurt a ss barrel.

I've not seen the problem Kevin mentioned on mine. I've got several Tipton rods and they are all very straight.

One thing is certain, they won't "cold weld", like the WLM is claiming to be a serious problem with stainless rods. I don't buy that argument either. I've never seen it happen, don't know anyone that has.. and all of the research I can find relative to cold welding implies it ain't gonna happen at the speeds and pressures of a cleaning rod in a barrel. Just another of Bill Calfee's dreams that were interupted by needing to go pee.:p
 
My novice way of thinking is the first pass pushes the bulk out. Clean the rod and any residue that may be left on a more absorbent rod like carbon fiber is only traveling about a foot per second compared to the 3000 fps that it was laid down with. With the slow passes and less than steel friction wear why do people still use steel?
 
HovisKM said:
Mike,

I'm glad they have the issues worked out. Have you ever seen one shatter?

Hovis
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Yes, but it was when a customer was intentionally trying to break it, thing they were unbreakable. He bought it. I deal with a lot of carbon shafts/rods. It takes a lot of abuse before breaking, but it's not unbreakable. My thinking is that if the patch/brush is that tight, it's too tight to begin with. Common sense goes a long way here. I've been using them professionally for 11 years....never had one break with proper use, but I have had a scare or two, and one jabbed through my wrist would probably be a mess.:( Hopefully it never happens. Anything is possible. I suppose an air pocket in the resin would made it a wreck looking for a place to happen. I assume they use vacuum to prevent air from being a likely problem. I'm sure someone, somewhere has had a problem.
 
Is the impaling by others that keeps your use of polished steel or is there more to it?
 
Partially, but I believe also that if you rub through the clear coat the carbon fiber rod will become abrasive. I have machined both graphite and carbon fiber material. They are very hard on cutting tools.
 
Butch Lambert said:
Partially, but I believe also that if you rub through the clear coat the carbon fiber rod will become abrasive. I have machined both graphite and carbon fiber material. They are very hard on cutting tools.
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The clear coat is all the way through. It's what holds the strands together, to the core. As I said, IMHO, there is a big difference in it's abrasion properties, depending on which direction the fibers are laid up. No question, it's hard on cutting tools. I just think that's apples and oranges. I believe the fibers in a cleaning rod run full length...cut to the desired length of the product, and that it's a whole different ballgame from cutting it, across the grain

FWIW, Calfee's implication is that the rod needs to be hard and slick. Carbide would be both, as well as being hard on tools.(very)

My point is that there's a big difference between having the edge of the carbide(think carbon fiber) running against the bore, vs. the smooth surface of either.
In the case of cf, being with the grain. If you ran a piece of stainless across a carbide rod, what would happen? Not much...Most of our worries come from abrasive grit, which carbon fiber is excellent at resisting, like carbide.

A dirty piece of rubber will saw through steel, because it is easily embedded. It's what gives tire traction. Can you imaging carbide or carbon fiber tires? I'm talking treads, not cores, here.
 
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Mike,
Somebody said B Calfee was a golfer in the 80s. I believe they use carbon fiber in golf club shafts. Is this what he is saying? Mike it really doesn't really matter which way the carbon fiber in oriented. It is abrasive either lengthwise or cross wise.
Mike,
I don't think you will see carbide cleaning rods. Talk about carbon fiber rods shattering!!
 
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I have several cleaning rods. The oldest of the ones that I regularly use is a 44" Dewey, that is coated. I have never seen any damage done to a barrel that I could attribute to it, and after all of these years the coating is intact. One thing that I think is more important than coated or not, is the quality and fit of your cleaning rod guide. I use one that has a tube in a tube, the tubes fit each other, and the inner one fits my rods. I think good work can be done with more than one style of rod, but that what is more important than what is made of, is how it is guided and used. If I had a nickel for every over tight patch that I have seen being pounded down a bore, or every rod handle that was way off of bore CL as it was being run back and forth, I would have a goodly amount of cash. Speedy once observed that a cleaning rod guide that is big enough in the back to allow a brush to pass cannot be doing much more than keeping solvent out of the action (assuming it does that). Every time that I take a rod out of a bore I wipe it down, and I pay a lot of attention to rod alignment with the bore. A good polished, straight steel rod will, caliber for caliber, be stiffer than a coated one, and for starting a new bronze brush this can be an advantage. I just choke up on the rod, just back of the guide, until it is in the bore.
 
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Butch Lambert said:
Mike,
Somebody said B Calfee was a golfer in the 80s. I believe they use carbon fiber in golf club shafts. Is this what he is saying? Mike it really doesn't really matter which way the carbon fiber in oriented. It is abrasive either lengthwise or cross wise.
Mike,
I don't think you will see carbide cleaning rods. Talk about carbon fiber rods shattering!!
Click to expand...

Butch, I hope you know that I'm not picking on you...we just disagree. It's literally like running a NON-EMBEDDING fishing line down the bore. Trust me...we have much more important things to worry about.
 
I saw a carbon fiber rod broken at the range once. It was being used to knock out a piece of brass that was stuck in the chamber. While I believe this was abusing the rod, a Dewey or similar would have had no problem. When used as a cleaning rod I don't think you would have any problems.
 
I like the IVY rods and TK nollan guides and coated deweys with lucas guides. like was already said if a brush can come back thru it then its no good. get quality stuff and youll get quality results. I personally wouldnt get close to a carbon rod after seeing an arrow shaft go thru a dudes wrist but I'm definitely not saying theyre bad or wrong its just my opinion. an IVY rod is a work of art and neil jones makes a real nice one but theyll rust in the storage tubes before you can get home. I have a set of those as well.
 
I brought this up to listen to different opinions. Lets say both type of rods were used improper ( polished steel and carbon fiber), the tight patch, enough force to bend a rod, all that. Which would any of you say puts more wear to a barrel? I can't help thinking that the steel burnishes the lands but that would be another story or question.
 
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Yo Mon,
Yea you too, Butch.
I have been using the same Carbon Fiber rod, since I started BR. 8Yrs. I think.
I bent a Dewey rod real quick.
A patch got stuck. Could not get it out. Sorta used my hand as a slide hammer.
Oh, It came out real fast. Hit the wall behind me. Bounced the other way. Almost got Joe Krupa in the back. Dominic Grunas was there. Joe walks kinda fast anyway. Saved his life, that zippy walk....
Anyway been using the Tipton rod for brushing. Doesn't bend works great.
Tipton has a .30 Cal. rod, just right for cleaning the Garand. Not too long. Not too short.
Never heard of a carbon fiber rod implode.
Must be an old wives tale.
Or an internet fable. Or just heard about it on BC. YEEEAAAAAAAA!
 
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