New .6 rule POLL

it must be nice living behind those rose tinted glasses...
you completedly ignored the issue...east coast clubs/people run the club they way they want/when they want. it is national club in name only. there are members from around the states, but ONLY EAST COAST clubs abd people decide what is done. this is .6 rule is a classic example.
you think my language is abrassive...just think how all the rest of the members of ibs feel when a few people on the east coast cram krap like this down out throats..that is rude abrassive behavior.
mike in co
Bob Pastor said:
Dear Mike,

As always, your postings and responses are argumentative and abrasive. Insignificant? Absolutely, as far as the real reason for competing in the first place. "Testing ones own ability to put all 5 or 10 shots into the smallest group or best score."Fair? Nothing will ever be fair enough for everybody. If you don't like the way rules are made, there are ways in place to change them. East, West, North or South, in the end, it's just a damn rifle match. Family, friends and personal satisfaction are what every shooter is really trying to get out of any sport. Mike, all this fighting doesn't do anything to advance shooting. I personally think the points should be eliminated all together. Not one person, in 1,000 yd. bench rest has ever made money. Why do they keep throwing money away? Because it's fun. If the IBS wants to eliminate all the internal fighting, Do away with the points system. The points system in itself can't be absolutely fair. If you or anyone else really needs a $50.00 jacket so badly, that they are willing to tear apart a great sport with bickering,we can take up a collection and get you one. Oh, and my one abrasive comment for you. Please do not comment on any club East of where you are until you actually spend the time and money competing and getting to personally know each and every club. These are the clubs that gave us the ability to test our skills and they deserve to be spoken about in a better light.
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mike in co said:
ouch...dang it hurts when someone brings up FACTS.

mike in co
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Michael,

Do you compete at 1,000 yds.? If so, why do you do it? If the current system vexes you personally so much, why doesn't your club IBS representative attend the annual meeting and help straighten everything out? I only ask because your club has joined an established organization with proceedures for making and changing the system if it's needed. You, as a dues paying member of the IBS, do have a vote and a right to speak out and challenge the established system. You do realize that you are allowed and even encouraged to attend the annual meeting. Use the system and your anger to better things. It's called Democracy. No it's not perfect but it's the best we have.
 
bob,
yes i do compete as an ibs member in 1000yd br competition.( if you follow this forum, my self build was a thread here)..at the club that was not given the nationals because "someone thought they could not follow the rules"...no one asked if the club would follow the rules..they just decided to give the nationals to the club that just held last years.
your claim of rperesentations is valid in print but not in real life. you speak of cost of points for a jacket, lets get real and talk about the cost of representation. lets say there are 50 people at the annual meeting...for a democratic representation the middle and west coast states have to send 50 people....you want to try and figure out the cost of that.
in this modern day why not mail in ballots for everything, not just things that get passed at the meeting...all issues...now that is a democracy. have the meeting in the middle of the country so the cost is similar for every vote/voter.
ohhhh no we would not give up the strangle hold the east coast clubs have..no way.
email voting......
i dont give a kcrap about the points..what i care about is the poor way we as members are treated by the east coast clubs...plain and simple...there is no democracy......the financial restraints/time restraints remove all but the looks of a democracy.
think of it this way, poll taxes were declared illegal because it was an undo finacial burden on some. having the meeting in the east is a poll tax on anyone not within a few hundred miles of the meeting.
what if the us of a decided that all voting for the president would only be held in the home town of the current president. anyone can vote as long as you get there......sound very "democratic" to you ??
mike in co
 
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Charles E;663919 But more important is this rule: [B said:
(ii) The total number of shooters in a class will be divided as evenly as possible into relays.[/B]

As long as the "approximately" ten shooters per relay is adhered to, we don't need any new rules. Whether a relay fires simultaneously or sequentially is not specified..
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This is the key issue and the fact that some are deviating from the intent of this file thru unfamiliarity or deliberate gamesmanship.

The LR Committee is correct in clearing up that misunderstanding. Any other proposals need agenda items.

Follow that and it is easy and everyone is ln same sheet of music.
 
mike in co said:
bob,
yes i do compete as an ibs member in 1000yd br competition.( if you follow this forum, my self build was a thread here)..at the club that was not given the nationals because "someone thought they could not follow the rules"...no one asked if the club would follow the rules..they just decided to give the nationals to the club that just held last years.
your claim of rperesentations is valid in print but not in real life. you speak of cost of points for a jacket, lets get real and talk about the cost of representation. lets say there are 50 people at the annual meeting...for a democratic representation the middle and west coast states have to send 50 people....you want to try and figure out the cost of that.
in this modern day why not mail in ballots for everything, not just things that get passed at the meeting...all issues...now that is a democracy. have the meeting in the middle of the country so the cost is similar for every vote/voter.
ohhhh no we would not give up the strangle hold the east coast clubs have..no way.
email voting......
i dont give a kcrap about the points..what i care about is the poor way we as members are treated by the east coast clubs...plain and simple...there is no democracy......the financial restraints/time restraints remove all but the looks of a democracy.
think of it this way, poll taxes were declared illegal because it was an undo finacial burden on some. having the meeting in the east is a poll tax on anyone not within a few hundred miles of the meeting.
what if the us of a decided that all voting for the president would only be held in the home town of the current president. anyone can vote as long as you get there......sound very "democratic" to you ??
mike in co
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Good Afternoon Michael,

You are absolutely right. It's totally irresponsible of the IBS to only hold it's annual meeting in the East. Obviously the IBS is totally biased against the Western shooters. If I were you and being treated this unfairly by a group of snobbish Eastern Shooters, You should get as far away from the IBS as possible "Run Forest Run!" and start your own organization. It's just not right that you and all the Western shooters should be abused in this fashion. As for the IBS commitees, it should be mandatory that all of the members of this high paying group of shooters, go thru sensitivity training.
 
Chisolm said:
Bob,

The Jacket is through the Long Range Marksmanship program.
The points cap is on Shooter Of The Year Points.

James
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Hi James,

I understand the difference. I just picked the jacket because it was tangible and easily understood as a prize to shoot for.

The middle of the Winter is so much fun on the internet.
 
Bob sorry but were not a Domocracy, We are a republic for which it stands. We have a President! Domocracy is in which the supreme power is held by the people, thats not the case here.

Joe Salt
 
That is true about a democracy. However, in a republic, all people have a representative with a vote.
 
If it were up to me I would only give point for State Championships and the Nationals! End of discussion no more fighting. Each club can have there own state shoot and then go shoot with the big boys, at the Nationals. no running trying to accumulate point by running to different clubs.

Joe Salt
 
Joe Salt said:
If it were up to me I would only give point for State Championships and the Nationals! End of discussion no more fighting. Each club can have there own state shoot and then go shoot with the big boys, at the Nationals. no running trying to accumulate point by running to different clubs.

Joe Salt
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Hey Joey,

Nice to see you are up from your afternoon nap.
 
Let the representatives from each club decide. End of discussion.
 
I see the following quote.....

"(ii) The total number of shooters in a class will be divided as evenly as possible into relays.(/B)"

In reading that statement, I am desperatly trying to find where it says 10 shooters or less. All it says is "divided evenly as possable". 40 shooters divided evenly can be 5 shooters per relay, 8 shooters, 10 shooters, or even 20 shooters in a relay. They would ALL be equal, and thus, LEGAL.

If you want to keep the number of shooters in a relay down, just put a cap on the number of shooters allowed in a relay. That would be fair for everyone. Limiting the number of points is unfair to the shooters who win big relays.
 
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so what we have is people using the rule as written and others whinning that people are following the rules. so the obvious answer is to change the points.......hmmmmmmmm anyone see something wrong here???
we don't fix the problem, we bandaid the results.....
dont fix the symptoms, fix the problem
the .6 rule does not fix the problem....

mike in co
( i do not shoot well enough or often enough for this to affect me...its about doing the right thing.)

Tod Soeby said:
I see the following quote.....

"(ii) The total number of shooters in a class will be divided as evenly as possible into relays.(/B)"

In reading that statement, I am desperatly trying to find where it says 10 shooters or less. All it says is "divided evenly as possable". 40 shooters divided evenly can be 5 shooters per relay, 8 shooters, 10 shooters, or even 20 shooters in a relay. They would ALL be equal, and thus, LEGAL.

If you want to keep the number of shooters in a relay down, just put a cap on the number of shooters allowed in a relay. That would be fair for everyone. Limiting the number of points is unfair to the shooters who win big relays.
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bob,
you can pick on my all you want..it changes nothing...the same that you have added to the conversation...nothing.
how about some positive input to fixing the problem...
mike in co
Bob Pastor said:
Good Afternoon Michael,

You are absolutely right. It's totally irresponsible of the IBS to only hold it's annual meeting in the East. Obviously the IBS is totally biased against the Western shooters. If I were you and being treated this unfairly by a group of snobbish Eastern Shooters, You should get as far away from the IBS as possible "Run Forest Run!" and start your own organization. It's just not right that you and all the Western shooters should be abused in this fashion. As for the IBS commitees, it should be mandatory that all of the members of this high paying group of shooters, go thru sensitivity training.
Click to expand...
 
Seems to me if i was a newbie or experienced shooter i would only want 10 shooters in a relay. One score winner and one group winner means i have a 1 in 5 chance of winning and getting to a shoot off. Twenty shooters and now i have a 1 in 10 chance of making it. Seems like pretty simple math to me. Bob Pastor and Scott Fletcher; I thought your posts were really good. Matt
 
mike in co said:
bob,
you can pick on my all you want..it changes nothing...the same that you have added to the conversation...nothing.
how about some positive input to fixing the problem...
mike in co
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Ok Mike you win, here is something constructive. No relay over 10 shooters. Point structure to revert back to .5 for a relay win and 1.0 for a match win. End of problem and the math is easier. None of this second place BS and you go to the shoot off. Our sport is about supreme accuracy. If you don't win, then figure out how to shoot better. The winners are there for a reason. They are good marksmen. If any club affiliated with the IBS doesn't follow the rules to the letter, then send them packing. If more stringent rules are needed so certain clubs can't take advantage of a certain point structure, then carve them in stone and make the penalty severe enough that it won't happen more than once.

How's that for constructive?

The second way to fix this problem is: Get rid of the damn point structure period. Have state champions and then go to a national championship and may the best shooters win. It's the only time of the year that all the best shooters are at one match anyway.
 
why would you want TEN when you could have 5.legally..and improve your chances ??...4 relays 2 run at the same time.....same time frame more winners....and still withing the rules 4 even realys of 5...
............you see the issue ???
mike in co
dk hunt 14 said:
Seems to me if i was a newbie or experienced shooter i would only want 10 shooters in a relay. One score winner and one group winner means i have a 1 in 5 chance of winning and getting to a shoot off. Twenty shooters and now i have a 1 in 10 chance of making it. Seems like pretty simple math to me. Bob Pastor and Scott Fletcher; I thought your posts were really good. Matt
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much better bob......
now how do we fix the stupid .6 bandaid that is currently in place......

mike in co
Bob Pastor said:
Ok Mike you win, here is something constructive. No relay over 10 shooters. Point structure to revert back to .5 for a relay win and 1.0 for a match win. End of problem and the math is easier. None of this second place BS and you go to the shoot off. Our sport is about supreme accuracy. If you don't win, then figure out how to shoot better. The winners are there for a reason. They are good marksmen. If any club affiliated with the IBS doesn't follow the rules to the letter, then send them packing. If more stringent rules are needed so certain clubs can't take advantage of a certain point structure, then carve them in stone and make the penalty severe enough that it won't happen more than once.

How's that for constructive?

The second way to fix this problem is: Get rid of the damn point structure period. Have state champions and then go to a national championship and may the best shooters win. It's the only time of the year that all the best shooters are at one match anyway.
Click to expand...
 
mike in co said:
much better bob......
now how do we fix the stupid .6 bandaid that is currently in place......

mike in co
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If you really want a point structure then live with what has been ruled on for this year and change it within the system next year. There is no quick fix. If the organization is going to survive, then everyone has to abide by this rule for now. This should be a wake up call for everyone concerned. If you want to change rules, do the work. Get the petitions with signatures, go to the meeting and voice your opinion. If you don't appear with documentation, showing shooters wishes, then you have no one to blame but yourselves.
 
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