Terry Balding
New member
We are building a 600 yard range in Columbus, WI. If we are lucky we will have 12 benches.
Terry
Terry
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New .6 rule POLL
- Thread starter Jeff Walker
- Start date
M
mike in co
Guest
delete this thread and post a POLL thread....its an option i believe....one votes on the options listed by the poll writer...simple poll...yes or no.....
mike in co
mike in co
Your right Charles About LIFTIME it only took me about 38 years to make or hall of fame.
Joe Salt
Gee, Joe, I made it in 13 years. I suppose because I don't travel -- all my points came from Hawks Ridge, or the Nationals. Like Pennsylvania, two tough places to get points!
I know we're suppose to be all about getting new members, but for me, that shouldn't be regardless of the cost.
All the complaining seems to come from one or two clubs. Precedent that isn't an actual written rule seems not to sway them. They are obviously special people. Best solution might be for them to form their own sanctioning body & do things exactly the way they want.
W
WV F-class cham
Guest
I fully agree with the new .6 rule. We have 15 benches at Whitehorse and being match director I never use all these during a monthly matches, usually nine or ten.
Maybe my matches are somewhat longer but we give more shooter a chance to win a relay, there are more shooters for the shoot-offs and the new comers usually go home happy.
Maybe my matches are somewhat longer but we give more shooter a chance to win a relay, there are more shooters for the shoot-offs and the new comers usually go home happy.
H
H Brewer Jr
Guest
At the Harry Jones range we only have ten benches we hope to have twelve soon,we try to use as many as we can to keep our relays the same,our thoughts we like to give as many shooters a chance to win a relay as possible because everyone likes to win,the more new people that can win there first relay or maybe a shoot off they will be hooked and more likely will come back and shoot agian,but if you are up against 15 or 20 people your chances are a lot smaller,the new rule is not a bad thing if you have the room shoot two relays at the same time its benn done before,Its a lot more fun to beat 5 or 6 good shooters in the shoot of rather than 1or 2.
You're right about the complaining, Charles I think they all just want to win so bad there going to make the rules to suit them no matter what it takes. If I had to win that bad I would have quit years ago. This is 1000 Yard shooting guys your not going to win every match and every relay and take home the gold. Believe it or not none of us are that good. At least I haven't met him or her yet.
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
K
KRH
Guest
As a member of the LR committe, we had alot of complaints, which caused this change to
be made, Where are these individuals now.
be made, Where are these individuals now.
Yes I do. and it is not fair to your shooters in this point system to run 5 man relays, they should be 10 to 12. But under the old point system you would get .5 for a 5 man ralay. Do you think it is right to run 4, 5 man relays at the same time. A fair playing feild between all clubs is all we want. If you won a relay and a shoot off with 40 shooters in W.Va, you would get 1.7 points. If you won a relay and one shoot off in Minn. you would get 2.2. Do you think that is fair? Next year you will have 3 clubs in Mo. and one in Minn ,so we should not hear any more crying about not enough matchs in your area. Two of these clubs have 20 benchs and one 15. Not encluding Minn. with 20. So what are we to do, tell clubs with less than 20 benchs, sorry but you will never have a member in the top 20 again unless you go to the midwest. How many midwest shooters are coming east? I can tell you NONE, for the same reason you gave . It is to far for a weekend and cost too much money. I say again this problem will not go away. I hope we can all get together and fix it before we let one or two clubs ruin our sport.
Couple things, Bob. You've shot with us at Butner, & should know the problems we face. 5-8 man relays are sort of mandatory for us if the shooters are needed to do pit duty. But with the newer rules, we get less points for a relay win, so it should still be fair.
And while you can get more points with the same number of shooter if you run 20 shooters on a relay, assuming everybody's pretty good, you have less chance to win them. Should even out in the long run.
But if that still bothers people, I keep pointing out that a simple solution is to use all 20 benches, but have benches 1-10 be relay one, and 11-20 be relay two. Now you don't directly penalize clubs who have have a large number of people shooting at the same time.
So, you make a new rule that doesn't change the point system, but limits the number of people on a relay to 11 shooters (or whatever is decided), but allow two relays to be fired simultaneously. Again, as I keep pointing out, there is a precedent in the IBS for doing just that.
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B Rosen
Guest
Charles this is what we did.We are not telling them they cannot shoot 20 people in one relay. You just will not get but a .6 if you .They can shoot benchs 1-10 in one relay and 11-20 in another relay at the same time. With out the point change all clubs shooting 10 man relays are spotting Minn .5 point per gun. One point per match with the same number of shooters.
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gmitchell
Guest
There are several reasons we are running large relays, range time is a issue we have every shooting disipline you can think of shooting on our 1000 yard range, we believe splitting relays is bending the rules simply because, a shooter could possibly shoot a smaller group or higher score and not make a shoot off, because of his or her bench assignment. For example, lets split 1-10 and 11-20
bench 1 shoots a 4" group
bench 9 shoots a 4.5" group
bench 18 shoots a 5" group
Remember we have a shooter on every bench the shooter on bench 9 will not advance to shoot off. This is more probable with larger relays. We can not and will not split relays.
We were not part of any gentlemans agreement, nor were we aware of it. I do not appreciate IBS long range committee trying to enforce a rule that don't exist. I don't appreciate other shooters bitching to the committee implying that we did somthing wrong.
Gordy Mitchell
bench 1 shoots a 4" group
bench 9 shoots a 4.5" group
bench 18 shoots a 5" group
Remember we have a shooter on every bench the shooter on bench 9 will not advance to shoot off. This is more probable with larger relays. We can not and will not split relays.
We were not part of any gentlemans agreement, nor were we aware of it. I do not appreciate IBS long range committee trying to enforce a rule that don't exist. I don't appreciate other shooters bitching to the committee implying that we did somthing wrong.
Gordy Mitchell
. . . We can not and will not split relays.
Actually, you can, you just won't.
We were not part of any gentlemans agreement, nor were we aware of it. I do not appreciate IBS long range committee trying to enforce a rule that don't exist. I don't appreciate other shooters bitching to the committee implying that we did somthing wrong.
Gordy Mitchell
Easy solution. Just quit IBS and start your own game.
No ... to a Cap on relay points
No ... to CRC being singled out
No … to holding the National’s at the same range, two years in a row (which I believe is a rules violation in itself)
No ... to other sanctioning body’s influence or opinions in regards to the running of the IBS
YES … to the International BR rules as they were, with simple adjustments to accommodate all ranges and relay sizes
YES ... to every IBS 600/1000 range having an equal vote to all LR rules
YES … to having 1 committee member (only) per range to the Long Range committee
YES … to no one state, country, area, or range having more rules influence then another
I want to shoot with and against all of you,
Donovan Moran
No ... to CRC being singled out
No … to holding the National’s at the same range, two years in a row (which I believe is a rules violation in itself)
No ... to other sanctioning body’s influence or opinions in regards to the running of the IBS
YES … to the International BR rules as they were, with simple adjustments to accommodate all ranges and relay sizes
YES ... to every IBS 600/1000 range having an equal vote to all LR rules
YES … to having 1 committee member (only) per range to the Long Range committee
YES … to no one state, country, area, or range having more rules influence then another
I want to shoot with and against all of you,
Donovan Moran
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Jeff Walker
Member
delete this thread and post a POLL thread....its an option i believe....one votes on the options listed by the poll writer...simple poll...yes or no.....
mike in co
Thanks Mike, I have done just that.
Not going to delete this one as of yet.
-----------Jeff
Last edited:
BountyHunter
New member
Keep the. 6 rule. It goes with the intent of the original vote and agreement that changed the points to begin with
BT BT
Jeff Stover
This .6 rule does not disadvantage any club and is within the agreed upon intent and most importantly the understanding of the voters at the time. A fact undisputed!
The fact that certain persons who have chosen thru ignorance or deliberate gamesmanship to advantage a chosen few is irrelevant
If they want to sue, well so can the members who voted on what was agreed and understood at the time of the vote. Which side would rather defend if it comes to that?
At that time VA shot at quantico and a 50 point firing line. This about making it fair for the clubs and ALL SHOOTERS!
LET a club build 40 benches and the same guys will be arguing the other side.
The Eboard needs to back the LR Committee on this or I say the original vote is invalid as we have deviated from what wad agreed would be the implementation process during the discussion before the vote and we need to vote again with the new understanding.
Bottom line is the. 6 DOES NOT disadvantage any club and if they have 20 benches they can still shot 20 at a time and matches will go just as fast.
This only stops the individual gamesmanship advantage and stays with the original intent and agreement.
Pick which side is in best interest of the IBS and the sport.
BT BT
Jeff Stover
This .6 rule does not disadvantage any club and is within the agreed upon intent and most importantly the understanding of the voters at the time. A fact undisputed!
The fact that certain persons who have chosen thru ignorance or deliberate gamesmanship to advantage a chosen few is irrelevant
If they want to sue, well so can the members who voted on what was agreed and understood at the time of the vote. Which side would rather defend if it comes to that?
At that time VA shot at quantico and a 50 point firing line. This about making it fair for the clubs and ALL SHOOTERS!
LET a club build 40 benches and the same guys will be arguing the other side.
The Eboard needs to back the LR Committee on this or I say the original vote is invalid as we have deviated from what wad agreed would be the implementation process during the discussion before the vote and we need to vote again with the new understanding.
Bottom line is the. 6 DOES NOT disadvantage any club and if they have 20 benches they can still shot 20 at a time and matches will go just as fast.
This only stops the individual gamesmanship advantage and stays with the original intent and agreement.
Pick which side is in best interest of the IBS and the sport.
R
RAG
Guest
Bob..if the relay points system was unfair for the 10 bench ranges why would the match points be fair to the clubs with 15-20 shooters? If this was about fairness both match and relay points would need to be changed and that would bring you full circle back to the set points.
Charles this is what we did.We are not telling them they cannot shoot 20 people in one relay. You just will not get but a .6 if you .They can shoot benchs 1-10 in one relay and 11-20 in another relay at the same time. With out the point change all clubs shooting 10 man relays are spotting Minn .5 point per gun. One point per match with the same number of shooters.
B
badboy1
Guest
Yes Sir all For it. Should be fair even compitition. Should be the same in any State or any Range.
Thanks' s Badboy1.
Thanks' s Badboy1.
Dave Tooley
Active member
All this hate and discontent over a maximum of .4 tenths of a point per match per class. That's 4 points per class if you had every bench full and won every relay in a year. And OBTW they earned those points. Anybody want to buy some 1k yd. rifles? I was in a position to shoot more this year but I've had enough of the poor pitiful disenfranchised whiny cry babies that want something for nothing.
B
B Rosen
Guest
Nothing is unfair about shoot offs .03 times total shooters. A club with 40 shooters shooting 20 man relays ,one shooter will get .5 more than 10 man relays per gun. A total of 1 point per match and the club with only 10 or 12 benchs cannot do anything to make this even if they do not have space for more benchs.
Dave Tooley
Active member
Bob
Your assumption is one man will win every relay and have an advantage over another shooter who wins every relay at another club. In all the years we've been doing this I've seen two people that came close to doing that. Lee Fischer and Charles Bailey. Each for different reasons. In the real world dominating success is fleeting.
Your assumption is one man will win every relay and have an advantage over another shooter who wins every relay at another club. In all the years we've been doing this I've seen two people that came close to doing that. Lee Fischer and Charles Bailey. Each for different reasons. In the real world dominating success is fleeting.
G
Gene Ford
Guest
Dave
Do those long range guns have any life in them, I have a few, but a couple of them are suffering from dropping barrels, so could use a better one or two, especially if they might have a bit of that Tooley MOJO rub on them.
Hey could load them up and bring them up to Missouri and shoot with us at Vapor Trail Valley, I bet you could pick up a couple a tenths because we are all new to the game, well almost new, well ok some of have shot a match or two. Have a great day.
Gene
Do those long range guns have any life in them, I have a few, but a couple of them are suffering from dropping barrels, so could use a better one or two, especially if they might have a bit of that Tooley MOJO rub on them.
Hey could load them up and bring them up to Missouri and shoot with us at Vapor Trail Valley, I bet you could pick up a couple a tenths because we are all new to the game, well almost new, well ok some of have shot a match or two. Have a great day.
Gene