Would you go to an out of town match at this time??
- Thread starter jackie schmidt
- Start date
You's guys are missing my point 
#1, We are not a despotism..... ASK the American people and they'll give until they cain't give no more
and then give some more
But when the news is full of "Martial Law" and our police are so confused they're threatening to call The Guard into churches...... I'm not there.
#2, Quite simply, if we were EVER, any given year, made aware of daily/monthly/yearly influenza deaths in a day-by-day minute-by-minute fashion, with the same breathless rigor as we're being treated to now by this virus, the world would freak out. Just like it's doing.
THIS, https://www.foxnews.com/health/spike-coronavirus-cases-tests-increases I find funny..... The numbers "went up almost 600% overnight when we started testing"......ya' THINK people??
Well, I guess we're experiencing what the reaction will be if we ever do experience a pandemic.
And some day folks will be wearing "I Survived The Covid Crisis" shirts, and feeling like heroes....
Sorry y'all..... I just ain't a'skeert
And no John..... I don't just believe "scientists"...... I believe SCIENCE, and I'm not including Neil DeGrasse Tyson nor 'Bill Nye The Science Guy'
I grew up in a world where I "believed" in National Geographic, Scientific American, Popular Science, Science Digest etc etc, where "by 2020 we'll all be flying to work and taking high-speed (XXXX) and no more fossil fuel".....and free bubble up and rainbow stew
Now, I choose to believe in SCIENCE
And in MATH,
And in PHYSICS and data and facts..... and this thing stinks to high heaven.
#1, We are not a despotism..... ASK the American people and they'll give until they cain't give no more
and then give some more
But when the news is full of "Martial Law" and our police are so confused they're threatening to call The Guard into churches...... I'm not there.
#2, Quite simply, if we were EVER, any given year, made aware of daily/monthly/yearly influenza deaths in a day-by-day minute-by-minute fashion, with the same breathless rigor as we're being treated to now by this virus, the world would freak out. Just like it's doing.
THIS, https://www.foxnews.com/health/spike-coronavirus-cases-tests-increases I find funny..... The numbers "went up almost 600% overnight when we started testing"......ya' THINK people??
Well, I guess we're experiencing what the reaction will be if we ever do experience a pandemic.
And some day folks will be wearing "I Survived The Covid Crisis" shirts, and feeling like heroes....
Sorry y'all..... I just ain't a'skeert
And no John..... I don't just believe "scientists"...... I believe SCIENCE, and I'm not including Neil DeGrasse Tyson nor 'Bill Nye The Science Guy'
I grew up in a world where I "believed" in National Geographic, Scientific American, Popular Science, Science Digest etc etc, where "by 2020 we'll all be flying to work and taking high-speed (XXXX) and no more fossil fuel".....and free bubble up and rainbow stew
Now, I choose to believe in SCIENCE
And in MATH,
And in PHYSICS and data and facts..... and this thing stinks to high heaven.
CYanchycki
Club Coordinator
It is amazing
how wonderful we have it in the US and Canada with the freedom of speech.
The only problem, we can be so judgemental of people's opinions on this matter.
Living where I do, with a city population of around 50,000 people, and a province of just over 1 million people, it will hit home when the 1st positive case is identified in our city. Honestly I think it is to early to be shutting everything down in our area. Maybe I am crazy for thinking that but what happens if we have no case for say another week or 2? Then they will be asking or initiating a city wide curfew....This will definately impact the general public and the economy.
Again, it is great to live in a free world with freedom.of speech but yet how free is our speech? Just saying.
We are all adults and individuals and we will choose how to deal with this pandemic as we see fit. An example, buying up all the toilet paper? WTF for?
I grew up using a outhouse. No running water. A bath once a week. Cut ice from the lake and melted it in a 45 gallon barrel for water in the winter. We collected rain water off the roof of the house in a 500 gallon barrel. If it was a dry year we pumped and filled the barrel from the lake. As long as I do not get to sick if I happen to contract the virus, I will be able to survive. My house is protected by the good Lord and a gun if need be. Yes if need be.
Calvin
how wonderful we have it in the US and Canada with the freedom of speech.
The only problem, we can be so judgemental of people's opinions on this matter.
Living where I do, with a city population of around 50,000 people, and a province of just over 1 million people, it will hit home when the 1st positive case is identified in our city. Honestly I think it is to early to be shutting everything down in our area. Maybe I am crazy for thinking that but what happens if we have no case for say another week or 2? Then they will be asking or initiating a city wide curfew....This will definately impact the general public and the economy.
Again, it is great to live in a free world with freedom.of speech but yet how free is our speech? Just saying.
We are all adults and individuals and we will choose how to deal with this pandemic as we see fit. An example, buying up all the toilet paper? WTF for?
I grew up using a outhouse. No running water. A bath once a week. Cut ice from the lake and melted it in a 45 gallon barrel for water in the winter. We collected rain water off the roof of the house in a 500 gallon barrel. If it was a dry year we pumped and filled the barrel from the lake. As long as I do not get to sick if I happen to contract the virus, I will be able to survive. My house is protected by the good Lord and a gun if need be. Yes if need be.
Calvin
IMO "the first positive case(s)" will show up once they begin testing for it...... IMO, this cat is O U T of thee bag, these horseys done LEFT the barn a long time ago.
IMO "Containment" is a pipe dream, this virus will run it's course just like any other, like the river thru the reeds.
IMO
Thank you Calvin for your perspective.
Tim Oltersdorf
Active member
Clinging to guns and religion
Obama infamously stated that in times of stress people cling to their guns and religion. We are now stressed by the COVID 19 virus. We have the guns. The only thing we lack is an appropriate religion. I suggest one of the following:
Sufi Whirling also known as the whirling Dervishes: Here the premise is simple. Remove the virus from your body by centrifugal force.
Louisiana Voodoo: Stick pins in a voodoo doll of the Corona virus.
Shakers: Believed in celibacy. Eventually the epidemic is removed from the population due to the lack of the population.
Heaven's Gate: Grab your black tennis shoes, commit suicide and let that spaceship take the virus to comet Hale-Boop.
Finally there is the most radical religion of all, Accordionism: Everyone attempts to learn to play the accordion. This won't cure the virus but it would sure promote social distancing. Tim
Obama infamously stated that in times of stress people cling to their guns and religion. We are now stressed by the COVID 19 virus. We have the guns. The only thing we lack is an appropriate religion. I suggest one of the following:
Sufi Whirling also known as the whirling Dervishes: Here the premise is simple. Remove the virus from your body by centrifugal force.
Louisiana Voodoo: Stick pins in a voodoo doll of the Corona virus.
Shakers: Believed in celibacy. Eventually the epidemic is removed from the population due to the lack of the population.
Heaven's Gate: Grab your black tennis shoes, commit suicide and let that spaceship take the virus to comet Hale-Boop.
Finally there is the most radical religion of all, Accordionism: Everyone attempts to learn to play the accordion. This won't cure the virus but it would sure promote social distancing. Tim
jackie schmidt
New member
The virus will run it’s course. There is no doubt.
The Black Plague of the Middle Ages ran it’s course. After 1/3 of the European population succumbed to it.
It takes an effort to be prudent. It takes an effort to change our routines. In my opinion, it no longer is a personal choice because so many others could be affected by that personal choice.
In the end, the fatality rate might not be any worse than the Flu that comes every winter. But then, we have no way of knowing at this time.
At my shop, we have printed out a paper for our employees that says, in short, if you feel sick, take your temperature. If you have anything above normal, do not come to work, do not go to the doctor or the emergency room. Call a doctor and follow his instructions.
The fewer people you are around the better your chances of avoiding infection. The fewer places you go, the better chances of avoiding infection.
Common sense.
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As Calvin said so well..... I'm bles't to be in a country where I can express my opinion freely...
Where I can be called "stupid," not thrown in jail.
And where I can vote, meaningfully.
And where I can exercise "prudence" as I see fit, not as my goobermint diktates.... at least for now.
And where I can fight to keep "for now" as an option.
for now
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
As Calvin said so well..... I'm bles't to be in a country where I can express my opinion freely...
Where I can be called "stupid," not thrown in jail.
And where I can vote, meaningfully.
And where I can exercise "prudence" as I see fit, not as my goobermint diktates.... at least for now.
And where I can fight to keep "for now" as an option.
for now
Irrespective of whether your judgment is poor and you cause harm contravening recommendations?
For now.
vtmarmot
P Magoon, Livin' Free NH
I received a good email today from the president of the hospital where I work. She explained that social distancing and self-isolation are techniques to slow the spread of the virus so that the health care system can deal with it in a somewhat organized fashion rather than being overwhelmed. It may drag things out longer but more people will get better treatment and less of us will ultimately die from the virus.
This is not about you or me or how we feel about what's being recommended. Its about people pulling together to mitigate a potentially devastating threat.
This is not about you or me or how we feel about what's being recommended. Its about people pulling together to mitigate a potentially devastating threat.
See here's the thing John..... I'm am American. We were FOUNDED UPON contravening convention. You evidently believe your government is "better than you at deciding your course of action" and that it supersedes the will of the people. Perhaps this is due to you historically living under a monarch. I don't remember The Ozzie Insurrection from my history classes....
I simply don't. Nor do I believe the govt to be more capable than me at assessing data, trends nor the will of the people. In fact, I AM "THE GOVERNMENT"
I AM responsible for making that and many other judgements....
AND...... here in America "recommendation" means just that. Recommendation.
We can argue, even call each other names, but in the end we HAVE free will here.
I'll give you a f'rinstance, totally out of this topic.
I know a lot of cops..... I know of a bunch here on this board..... and most of them are against my wife carrying a handgun downtown.
I know FBI agents, ATF agents, enforcement agents of all stripes and most of THEM TOO, are against my wife carrying a handgun.
I truly doubt you could get one single enforcement agent on this shooting forum to come out as pro-unrestricted concealed carry.
Or that will support my stance that we should be able to buy suppressors at Walmart....
So there ya' have it. I'm AMERICAN..... Olde Schoole and to the core..... and I fully accept the responsibility that comes with that.
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
I hear you, Al, but your concept is flawed.
I recall once reading a member of this forum at one time saying that he had the right to choose to smoke stogies on the line. I asked that if I believe that my rights to a smoke free environment were contravened by his actions, would he approve me throwing a bucket of water on his cigar.
Cooperation - it's an element of civilization.
I recall once reading a member of this forum at one time saying that he had the right to choose to smoke stogies on the line. I asked that if I believe that my rights to a smoke free environment were contravened by his actions, would he approve me throwing a bucket of water on his cigar.
Cooperation - it's an element of civilization.
And here we are in agreement....and to me, YES, if the guy takes the choice to inflict smoke on you against your will then, you can inflict the bucket on him. I'm a great believer in and vocal proponent of "live and let live" ..... in privacy. But the line STOPS when you're affecting someone else. Here on the left coast, in my area it's legal to defecate in public, use and drop needles in public, smoke a doober in public or go "clothing optional" ....
But they're trying hard to stop people from going to the hardware store for some paint or a new door hannle so's they can catch up on some honey-do's while "sheltering in place."
California has a governor who truly believes he has the right and the authority to make the whole state stay home. The people with the best judgement, those of us who've ALWAYS washed our hands, taught our young to use a tissue to turn the faucet or open the door in the public restroom, touch nothing in public, wear the little plastic disposable glove while fueling our vehicles, cough into our sleeves, shower and change clothes after mingling, etc etc ...... are being restricted
I grew up in an era where people smoked on airplanes. And I'm still a social smoker. But I absolutely do not believe I have any "right" to inflict my smoke on others. The line stops when others are affected. Luckily for me, I'm ONLY a social smoker and as such I never have to look over my shoulder...But, even though it's not actually "against the law" I do not believe I nor anyone else has a "right" to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater.... even though it's legal, it's completely against social mores and social convention.
The kicker lies in the verbiage, and in the enforcement. I'm a big proponent of changing societal behavior, teach and help each other during the down time so that proper behavior becomes the norm thru these moments of incidental crises.
We had a great tragedy last week in our church community. I've got friends staying right now, in my home who flew in from 2000mi. We had a funeral Wed that under normal conditions would have been attended by 1000 people. Our social 'limit' here is 50 people right now. This 50 people didn't even cover family... but in respect of the community mandates people set 2 or 3 to a pew, two pews apart. And limited the attendees to 50
The roads around the church were lined with people and flowers, 6' apart, and there are pictures in all the papers.
Contrary to popular belief, we ARE a very polite and respectful society, very civilized....... and we'll rally whole-heartedly around any well-presented "good cause."
But unfortunately, IMO the crassest of us are trying to make policy for the masses and making a bollix of it.
I'll always choose educated response over knee-jerk reaction and it is my belief that this whole thing is being over-blown for societally destructive reasons. By the same folks who've brought us to that point where if I tell someone "hey, go put some clothes on" I'm the one getting in trouble with the law.
And my belief is that society benefits from folks being reminded, not told. Explained to, not preached at.
Generally speaking, I believe WE ALL want to "do the right thing"..... but we will always disagree somewhat as to what IS "the right thing.".... and that this is a basic tenet of a free society. So we group up, we campaign, we vote in folks who will "speak for us" by proxy. The collective will of the people will generally out.
I furthermore believe that These United States of America and our US Ethic are still working perfectly well...... we have voted in those folks who are now telling us what to do.
MY rant, MY focus, MY WHOLE EFFORT is simply to point out that we're in many cases handling this situation very poorly. We're buying into the over-reaction. But also, that we have brought it upon ourselves..... so PUH-LEEZE PEOPLE! "Can we learn from this?"
For next time?
Because there will always be a next time...
Al,
Wrong-o on the unrestricted concealed carry, from this almost 30 year deputy sheriff, now, thankfully, retired. I'm all for it, with a caveat: Pass a criminal background check. I doubt your wife is a felon, so carry on. I NEVER feared the armed citizen. In fact, one night, in the middle of nowhere, with back-up 15 minutes+ away, my partner and I had 7 prone at gunpoint (they were armed) when we enlisted the assistance of two good ol' boys and their deer rifles. I became an instant Jack O'Connor convert, because I fell in love with those two ol' boys .270's right then and there. There was many a call, when we had an extended ETA, that I hoped to hell the reporting party had a gun.
Quick story with a happy ending: Several members of one of our local gangs decided to do a home invasion on a local whom they thought was a snitch (True. He was my snitch). They didn't figger' for the snitches dad and his ol' 30-30 in the picture. Cost one of them 2 inches of femur...the 2nd amendment at its finest. Kinda off point, but who doesn't love a "good guy wins" story...
That gangster was easy to ID forever thereafter. He was the one walking in circles...
Now...if you object to my criminal background check prior to a CCW issuance, well...we're gonna have to agree to disagree. I know A LOT of criminals. You don't want them running about with guns.
The Supremes have ruled that there are exceptions to the various amendments, as long as they're "reasonable". I think it's reasonable that you pass a criminal background check before you get a CCW. I think it's reasonable that when I'm in foot pursuit of a bad guy and he runs into his house, I don't have to stop at his front door and scratch out a warrant to enter (fresh pursuit exception). I think it is reasonable that you can't exercise your 1st amendment rights by yelling "Fire"! in a crowded movie theatre.
The rub is your definition of "reasonable". I can guaran-damn-tee you that Gavin Newsome's and my definition vary considerably...
And I can guaran-damn-tee you that I would never try and shut down a church service because of the Corona virus, and I certainly would never threaten to sic the Natty Guard on them. I'd try and talk some sense into them..."God will understand you missing a Sunday given all that's going on"...and make them aware of the repercussions, but it would prolly do no good. The "God's will" crowd, as highlighted by Jackie's joke, is strong willed and can be blinded to reality by their faith. Nevertheless, I believe in all the amendments. I also believe that our founding fathers gave us incredible freedoms. And they hoped and prayed that we would be responsible and smart with them, and not do some of the things our freedoms enabled us to do.
Justin
vtmarmot
P Magoon, Livin' Free NH
One more time for those that are so worried about their rights.
This is a once it a lifetime issue. Believe it or don't.
If you have a heart attack, or terminal cancer, or whatever, and you can't get treatment because they've run out of beds and supplies and half the doctors and nurses are sick or dead, and you're in the skeptic camp, then go ahead an effin die. I don't care.
The higher the horse you're on, the more it's gonna hurt when you fall off.
I give up. Have fun barkin' at the moon. I just hope you and your cronies don't take me down with you.
This is a once it a lifetime issue. Believe it or don't.
If you have a heart attack, or terminal cancer, or whatever, and you can't get treatment because they've run out of beds and supplies and half the doctors and nurses are sick or dead, and you're in the skeptic camp, then go ahead an effin die. I don't care.
The higher the horse you're on, the more it's gonna hurt when you fall off.
I give up. Have fun barkin' at the moon. I just hope you and your cronies don't take me down with you.
Justin, YES, I totally agree with sanity checks and criminal background checks.....
I agree with your statements (and Jackie's) about the "God will provide/protect" crowd being unstable.......and that their are irrational folks in every stratum and stripe in our society...... whether your religion is "God" or "Gaia" the result is often the same.
I furthermore believe that it is a deep-seated need for most of society that they be told what to do..... generally folks LOVE to be led, it absolves them of personal responsibility..... some just choose the preacher over the governor as their leader of choice.
But I believe many/most shooters are hearty, caring, bright people capable of reason,
Therefore I rant/beg "Please THINK with me!"
al
I agree with your statements (and Jackie's) about the "God will provide/protect" crowd being unstable.......and that their are irrational folks in every stratum and stripe in our society...... whether your religion is "God" or "Gaia" the result is often the same.
I furthermore believe that it is a deep-seated need for most of society that they be told what to do..... generally folks LOVE to be led, it absolves them of personal responsibility..... some just choose the preacher over the governor as their leader of choice.
But I believe many/most shooters are hearty, caring, bright people capable of reason,
Therefore I rant/beg "Please THINK with me!"
al