Vudoo V22S SS/F Class Action

[DEFTI RIMFIRE]

Mike, it was not my intension to get you POed, but if you had followed anything on that site, before posting anything, you should have known how it was going to end. I lost my key card over there years ago and that was from asking too many questions I suppose.

Frankly, I know very little about you. All I knew is that you are building a rifle action that somewhat resembles a 40X in a repeater, but works much smoother from what I gather. Until this new BR type action came about, I had very little interest in what you were doing. The BR action looks interesting and I do hope it works out well, I guess that did sound a little familiar, once again sorry, was not intension. My other remark about the equipment list, well the proof is in the pudding so to speak. hope to see it there in the future.

Sorry we got off on the wrong foot about the WWA thread, but you had to know that was not going to fly over there. He trashes Stiller's actions on a weekly basis and he has been doing this awhile. Anyway, I will leave you be.

George

Thanks for circling back George, much appreciated as I have no desire to be sideways with anyone. Basically, I remain baffled by what I see in a "select" part of the split BR community and frankly, there are no angels on either side. But I had to find this out for myself, so for you to say, "you had to know" is a bit of a stretch. I've never been a BR guy, I'm considered an outsider and that's fine. So, what I knew prior is what I heard, but never experienced for myself. I had reason to suspect something might happen, but I had to give it a chance to truly know.

The bottom line is, I won't be a part of either legion and I won't tolerate the arrogance that comes from them. It has entered this thread a few times and I'll shut it down every time. I'm doing what I'm doing for a community of people that want to shoot, not for people that are only interested in talking about pudding. With that, as with anything judged by the palate, if one hasn't acquired a taste for what currently exists, make something else.

As for the, "if you're going to do a BR action, you have to do it this way" mentality? I was told by many that what I was doing with my repeater would never work, and in a way I guess that was true. It hasn't and doesn't work the way they perceived it should and it created a new component in a short amount of time within what many rimfire enthusiasts enjoy. But it's far too soon for me to lock myself away and digress to useless murmurings to myself on the internet and dare anyone to have an original thought. But again, as I stated above, there are no angels on either side; the same thing happens on another BR site, just not as much "in-your-face." As I've stated elsewhere recently in response to the mentality I spoke to in my prior post, there is a "price" as it relates to dues paid, but there becomes a point where the wrong people are demanding the price be paid to them....

Thanks again George for circling back,
MB

 

[tim]

Mike,
As long as we're circling back let me try and fill in a couple thoughts from Tony's comment with some history, you may know, you may not, use or discard as you see fit.
There is some productive logic behind the 3/4 tenon which, obviously, cannot be used here. This brings us to the bushing which you might still consider.
Realizing you have been primarily a cut barrel guy, you may or may not have encountered this but since most BR barrels have utilized buttoned barrels, there is a fair bit of history which indicates that with a button rifled barrel, that dual dimension step down required with the bigger tenon has often lead to an imperceptibly small dimensional variance in the bore.....degraded performance . Less than absolute concrete proof, but there it is.
Throw in the fact that often, ANY barrel has been tough to get, two dimensioned ones, more so.
Thus the bushing. A simple, straight forward solution to the issue, easy to do properly, unfortunately, easy to to improperly, especially since they started back when you saw more 40X's out there, notorious for being often less than true.
I will tell you this, obviously you make a nice product, well thought out, well executed, but intending to serve some component of the BR crowd this is an issue.

 

[DEFTI RIMFIRE]

Mike,
As long as we're circling back let me try and fill in a couple thoughts from Tony's comment with some history, you may know, you may not, use or discard as you see fit.
There is some productive logic behind the 3/4 tenon which, obviously, cannot be used here. This brings us to the bushing which you might still consider.
Realizing you have been primarily a cut barrel guy, you may or may not have encountered this but since most BR barrels have utilized buttoned barrels, there is a fair bit of history which indicates that with a button rifled barrel, that dual dimension step down required with the bigger tenon has often lead to an imperceptibly small dimensional variance in the bore.....degraded performance . Less than absolute concrete proof, but there it is.
Throw in the fact that often, ANY barrel has been tough to get, two dimensioned ones, more so.
Thus the bushing. A simple, straight forward solution to the issue, easy to do properly, unfortunately, easy to to improperly, especially since they started back when you saw more 40X's out there, notorious for being often less than true.
I will tell you this, obviously you make a nice product, well thought out, well executed, but intending to serve some component of the BR crowd this is an issue.

Thanks Tim, this is of great value. I've been playing with what you're describing and I believe with good progress. Initially, my approach has been on my repeater action, but for the very reason of moving into the new BR/F-Class stuff. I'll be barreling actions with the Muller blanks next week as I've now completed the new fixture that allows all the extractor cuts (non-magnum, magnum and single shot barrels) to be done in one fixture via CNC. I'll post up pics as this comes together.
MB

 

[DEFTI RIMFIRE]

A LOT of progress and I couldn’t be more pleased. Two things that strike me the most about this action is, it’s the easiest bolt lift 60 degree I’ve felt to date and the power/consistency in the fire control. Prepped everything today, barrels go in the lathe tomorrow.

MB









MB

 

[earlm]

Looks nice

Neat firing pin shape.

 

[Dennis D.]

Mike, As the trigger is pinned will you have different spring strengths available to play with ignition? Also, how much closing cam does the action have?

It's great to have a new action available, especially a left hand version.

Dennis

 

[tim]

Mike,
Nice piece of equipment.
Looks like bolt disassembly seems to be a bayonet type affair ?
The bolt nose is a bit out of focus, is that a "half moon" type pin tip ?
Love the updates.

 

[DEFTI RIMFIRE]

Mike, As the trigger is pinned will you have different spring strengths available to play with ignition? Also, how much closing cam does the action have?

It's great to have a new action available, especially a left hand version.

Dennis

Hi Dennis,
Yessir, there are numerous springs available and forgive me, but I’m going to withhold the closing cam answer for now

Thanks,
MB

 

[DEFTI RIMFIRE]

Mike,
Nice piece of equipment.
Looks like bolt disassembly seems to be a bayonet type affair ?
The bolt nose is a bit out of focus, is that a "half moon" type pin tip ?
Love the updates.

Thanks Tim!
Yessir, the bolt assembly bayonets together, very easy assembly/disassembly (no tools) and incredible axial alignment. Yes, the pin tip is the crescent shape that I believe we may have talked about via forum a little while back when I was initially testing it.

Thanks and we should catch up sometime....

MB

 

[tim]

Thanks Tim!
Yessir, the bolt assembly bayonets together, very easy assembly/disassembly (no tools) and incredible axial alignment. Yes, the pin tip is the crescent shape that I believe we may have talked about via forum a little while back when I was initially testing it.

Thanks and we should catch up sometime....

MB

Come up & shoot an IR match with us( if/when things open up in NY)
I got a great rifle for you to shoot, even a sporter if you wish.
I'll take you out in the GT 4. How can refuse an offer like this?

 

[DEFTI RIMFIRE]

Come up & shoot an IR match with us( if/when things open up in NY)
I got a great rifle for you to shoot, even a sporter if you wish.
I'll take you out in the GT 4. How can refuse an offer like this?

Definitely, let’s stay in touch, when things open up, I’ll head that way.

MB

 

[tonykharper]

Why!

MB, I'm going to try this one more time. I will be very careful how I word this so as to not get your back up.

If by perchance I do, please try to understand I'm not attacking you or your products.

My only agenda here is to learn and share information with like minded shooters, gunsmiths, and in your case manufacturers.

I am sure you did some sort of market research before you decided to design, program, and produce your new F class/BR action.

I would think you would have started by studying the existing offerings from other companies.

Since there have been so many (at least 20), I doubt you studied them all.

Could you please list, by action, the problems you found with these offerings and how your new action addresses these problems.

I am not asking you to bad mouth other peoples products, simply explain how you believe your product to be superior.

You have said you do things for a reason here is your chance to explain them if you care to.

TKH

 

[B_Rob85]

MB, I'm going to try this one more time. I will be very careful how I word this so as to not get your back up.

If by perchance I do, please try to understand I'm not attacking you or your products.

My only agenda here is to learn and share information with like minded shooters, gunsmiths, and in your case manufacturers.

I am sure you did some sort of market research before you decided to design, program, and produce your new F class/BR action.

I would think you would have started by studying the existing offerings from other companies.

Since there have been so many (at least 20), I doubt you studied them all.

Could you please list, by action, the problems you found with these offerings and how your new action addresses these problems.

I am not asking you to bad mouth other peoples products, simply explain how you believe your product to be superior.

You have said you do things for a reason here is your chance to explain them if you care to.

TKH

This is EXACTLY what I was hoping to learn from this thread. I might be in the market for a benchrest 22 in the coming years and would love to know what separates this action from the others used by the top competitors.

 

[tim]

MB, I'm going to try this one more time. I will be very careful how I word this so as to not get your back up.

If by perchance I do, please try to understand I'm not attacking you or your products.

My only agenda here is to learn and share information with like minded shooters, gunsmiths, and in your case manufacturers.

I am sure you did some sort of market research before you decided to design, program, and produce your new F class/BR action.

I would think you would have started by studying the existing offerings from other companies.

Since there have been so many (at least 20), I doubt you studied them all.

Could you please list, by action, the problems you found with these offerings and how your new action addresses these problems.

I am not asking you to bad mouth other peoples products, simply explain how you believe your product to be superior.

You have said you do things for a reason here is your chance to explain them if you care to.

TKH

I for one would love a bit more dialog directed EXACTLY at something like this, if for no other reason than not to hack through 2nd, 3rd hand opinion based stuff rather than engineering based.
While there may be stuff not to put out in the public space, it would be great to get some of the thinking.

 

[marks_a18138]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ls...xjjWHwN_AGFBsDPdB2mGACa8IsCo7vGyDcDPhZoIYHbBo

 

[High Noon]

Well done Vudoo video!

It’s always exciting to see a new benchrest action however it’s also very refreshing to see it presented in a professional and down to earth way! A great start to a successful launch !! Well done! Todd - Studio 63

 

[marks_a18138]

Mike Bush has posted some new info on the V22S on the Hide...https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...br-f-class-action.7001695/page-4#post-8581240

 

[marks_a18138]

Boys and Girls here is the first V22S in the wild and the results are awesome. Results to be released very soon Mike Bush!

 

[tim]

Lets remember "results" are going to boil down to match performance against experienced competitors.....as it should be.
Offering a package appealing to new shooters would be wonderful.
IMHO the best thing Mike and his crew could possibly do is to get one of these guns in the hands of a proven shooter to wring it out and really get the effort off to a very credible start.
In conversations with Mike, I kind of suspect he is sharp enough to be thinking of this anyway, realizing a great shooter is a major % of the whole package, I'd bet on a great shooter with fair equipment over a ho-hum shooter with great equipment every time.

If those shots are where they appear to be, that would be a good start.

 

[marks_a18138]

IMHO the best thing Mike and his crew could possibly do is to get one of these guns in the hands of a proven shooter to wring it out and really get the effort off to a very credible start!

Tim you are correct, "Mike has the rifle in the hands of a Bad Ass BR shooter"