Using VV 133 and 68 FB match bullets, 6PPC ?

H322

Andy,

AR2219 is the powder...hope you have plenty of N133...wont be any in the country till after August if we are lucky.

Steve
 
Thanks Steve

Thanks for the powder info Steve. Yep I have two 2Kg canisters of N133. I was told by someone in the know that Noia trading have taken up the dealership for Vit products after Custer lost it. They also bought Custers stock so things could be worse.
Andy
 
Andy,

As far as I know Nioa didn't buy Custers stock...Custer is selling it off at good prices...spoke to the Nioa rep today and he wasn't too optimistic on getting powder for a while...get yourself some BM2 and AR2219 now as the supply of powder is going to get hard to get because of 1st Fleet going into administration and Nioa having to find someone else to cart powder.

Steve
 
308sako said:
Well Sir, you have made my day. I've been working with IMR 8208 XBR in both my .308 F class rifle and several AR's with heavy bullet loads and have also found it to be exceptional performer. However, more importantly I have a bit more than a keg handy!
Click to expand...

Hello 308. I am waiting on a 1:10 twist, 32 in .308 Kreiger barrel for long range and your comment above really sparked my interest. Do you have a starting point on the xbr power. I have a 1 year old unopened 8 lb. bottle which was intended for my 6ppc.
Also, do you think this powder is suitable for the 6.5x47 Lapua, also for long range?

Thanks for any help.

Roy
 
ReedG said:
I don't, as a rule, publish load data because of there being so many variables in chambers and barrels that what is moderate in one rifle may well be too hot in another. Because of the fact that none of my loads have any signs whatever of pressure and are not over many other published data, I will give you my best accuracy loads:

H322 -- 28.0
H4198 -- 24.5
IMR8208XBR -- 30.4
N133 -- 29.3

Please be responsible and start at least a grain below any of these and work up. Also be aware that H4198 (Hodgdon) load data is not transferable to IMR4198. The new IMR8208XBR is not the same as "the old" 8208. These loads are all for modern recent batches of the listed powders using CCI BR4 and Federal 205 primers.

I always work up loads using three-shot groups with a spread of .3 or .4 grain of powder. As an example, to find the IMR8208 accuracy load I went to the range (still too cold to load at the range) with six three-shot sets using 65-gr. Bart's BT bullets at 28.8, 29.2, 29.6, 30.0, 30.4, 30.8; all seated +10 into the lands of a 6 PPC with .262" neck. When I find which one of these loads grouped the best, I then load three-shot sets with that load and vary the seating depth at -10, -5, @, +5, +10, +15 to find the correct seating length. This simple process will almost certainly determine what your barrel wants.

I have not chronographed any of these, but will when the weather gets a bit more user-friendly. I really don't care what the speed is, only what size group they shoot. I do, however, have fellow shooters who load to a specific fps for their accuracy node. There is always more than one way to skin the cat.
Click to expand...

Reed, I'm interested in your XBR results since this post. Like you but 2 yrs ago I got a jug of XBR and did some testing in cold/sub freezing weather. Stuff shot awesome in the same range as you said.
Come spring it was all done. Never found a node or accuracy again. Just wondering......
 
JO, I'm waiting for some warm weather to keep the test going. It has been 40s and 50s here for couple of weeks. I may get a chance to shoot some tomorrow with forecast into the 60s. I hope it works, but not sure H322 isn't going to end up the solid performer.

I suppose you tinkered with the loads, up and down, and never found anything that worked.
 
Actually Reed I should amend my former post. I did find accuracy and a higher node.
But I also found anytime I let the barrel cool for a minute or more it would take another shot or two for the POI to settle down.
All was fine as long as I kept sending em downrange. Stop to let a breeze go by and the next shot would be a bullet or two outside the group, next would halve that distance and after that it would recommence chewing a little hole.
I tweaked up, to be honest I can't recall going lower even tho lower might make more sense. Could be my bad there.

This was'nt a one time occurence, happened everytime. Burned a pound or two trying. Same scenario in a 6BR 14 twist.
Seeing as it was spring and the season was commencing I just went back to the old loads.
I wish you better luck and skill than I brought to the table=)
 
Roy Allain said:
Hello 308. I am waiting on a 1:10 twist, 32 in .308 Kreiger barrel for long range and your comment above really sparked my interest. Do you have a starting point on the xbr power. I have a 1 year old unopened 8 lb. bottle which was intended for my 6ppc.
Also, do you think this powder is suitable for the 6.5x47 Lapua, also for long range?

Thanks for any help.

Roy
Click to expand...

Sorry for the extreme delay.

I started using Sierra 2155 bullets, the old Palma style and 43.5 grains of IMR 8208 XBR Lapua brass and Federal 210M primers. My barrel is a 26.5" Rock Creek 5R with a 1 in 11.25 twist. Excellent accuracy was found at two nodes above that and typical of 155's they liked to shoot above 2900 ft/secs. Since I frequently shoot this rifle suppressed I noticed that pressures appeared to be slightly less than Varget for the same velocities as dwell time becomes an issue with the suppressor.

Good luck and good shooting.
 
Which of these powders like a lot of neck tension and which don't?
Thanks Max
 
Personally, I've seen XBR work in more conditions than H322 in a 6ppc using Lapua brass. H322 alone seems to be a bit too fast when the temps climb thereby forcing the load to be reduced well below the neck/shoulder junction. XBR, on the other hand, may be a bit too slow as it always seems like I'm forced to throw real slow if I want to get it all in there. That being said, I have had it work very well many times. In fact, last weekend in Colorado, I couldn't get N133 to work to save my life. And most folks using it struggled all weekend. Most the winners were using something else or switched over to something else. I switched over to XBR Sunday morning and immediately started shooting like I knew the gun could (my aggs fell apart in the afternoon, but that wasn't due to the powder, rather a seater die that decided to come apart internally). However, two weeks before, I saw XBR totally fall apart and never come back for two days. N133 or something faster seemed to be the ticket that weekend. I guess it just goes to show that you have to take at least two powders to every match.
 
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Goodgrouper
What is it that makes 133 louse its tune?Temperaturee, humidity,altitudee how do these things effect a tuned rifle ?
Thanks Max
 
max.burgess said:
Goodgrouper
What is it that makes 133 louse its tune?Temperaturee, humidity,altitudee how do these things effect a tuned rifle ?
Thanks Max
Click to expand...

Max, that is the 64 dollar question my friend! Usually, I've been able to adjust N133 to fit the day's needs. But not last weekend. I mean it would shoot ok (.260's @ 100 and .550's at 200), but it didn't want to shoot any smaller than that and that load would only last for a group or two before it acted like it wanted something else. The temps ranged from 62 degrees to around 80 in the afternoon. Humidity was very low, especially in the afternoons (the range is located literally in the middle of a desert and nothing but tumbleweeds grow), and the elevation is nearing 5000 feet. Several friends had good luck switching to old 8208 or 8208/h322 blend. I think I was the only winner that switched over to a slower powder (xbr) which is kinda the opposite of the norm for those conditions I guess. But it worked so I'm still confused........:confused:

Lowell Frei lives within 20 miles of this range and he has told me numerous times that the load that works in his backyard range will not work at this range. He can't figure out why.
 
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goodgrouper said:
Max, that is the 64 dollar question my friend! Usually, I've been able to adjust N133 to fit the day's needs. But not last weekend. I mean it would shoot ok (.260's @ 100 and .550's at 200), but it didn't want to shoot any smaller than that and that load would only last for a group or two before it acted like it wanted something else. The temps ranged from 62 degrees to around 80 in the afternoon. Humidity was very low, especially in the afternoons (the range is located literally in the middle of a desert and nothing but tumbleweeds grow), and the elevation is nearing 5000 feet. Several friends had good luck switching to old 8208 or 8208/h322 blend. I think I was the only winner that switched over to a slower powder (xbr) which is kinda the opposite of the norm for those conditions I guess. But it worked so I'm still confused........:confused:

Lowell Frei lives within 20 miles of this range and he has told me numerous times that the load that works in his backyard range will not work at this range. He can't figure out why.
Click to expand...

That is so true. I've recently been drawn into the PPC game and it is the most love/hate round I've came across. The only thing I've found so far is to find the most forgiving bullet when I'm shooting N133.
 
ReedG said:
I don't, as a rule, publish load data because of there being so many variables in chambers and barrels that what is moderate in one rifle may well be too hot in another. Because of the fact that none of my loads have any signs whatever of pressure and are not over many other published data, I will give you my best accuracy loads:

H322 -- 28.0
H4198 -- 24.5
IMR8208XBR -- 30.4
N133 -- 29.3

Please be responsible and start at least a grain below any of these and work up. Also be aware that H4198 (Hodgdon) load data is not transferable to IMR4198. The new IMR8208XBR is not the same as "the old" 8208. These loads are all for modern recent batches of the listed powders using CCI BR4 and Federal 205 primers.

I always work up loads using three-shot groups with a spread of .3 or .4 grain of powder. As an example, to find the IMR8208 accuracy load I went to the range (still too cold to load at the range) with six three-shot sets using 65-gr. Bart's BT bullets at 28.8, 29.2, 29.6, 30.0, 30.4, 30.8; all seated +10 into the lands of a 6 PPC with .262" neck. When I find which one of these loads grouped the best, I then load three-shot sets with that load and vary the seating depth at -10, -5, @, +5, +10, +15 to find the correct seating length. This simple process will almost certainly determine what your barrel wants.

I have not chronographed any of these, but will when the weather gets a bit more user-friendly. I really don't care what the speed is, only what size group they shoot. I do, however, have fellow shooters who load to a specific fps for their accuracy node. There is always more than one way to skin the cat.
Click to expand...

Reed

How do you get more than 29 grs. of N133 in the case without a very long drop tube. I'm using Lapua brass and 29 grs. fills it right to the top.

Jerry
 
I shoot 29.3 of N133 almost all of the time in my PPC's, it comes about 2/3 up the neck. I use a 10 inch drop tube. There can be variations due to chamber differences and your mileage could vary.
I am starting to think that a longer PPC, .025 or .050 along with the IMR 8208 would make a fine cartridge.
 
The long drop tube is a little less than half of the whole program. The rest is the very slow and/or interrupted drop. Keeping an eye on the drop tube, carefully approach the handle position where you just start to see powder granules. When you do, back the handle up just enough to stop the flow, and go again, repeating until the measure cavity is empty. Usually 5-6 reps. I think that you will be surprised how far down the neck 29 gr. comes to with a little technique.
 
""I am starting to think that a longer PPC, .025 or .050 along with the IMR 8208 would make a fine cartridge.""
I might tend to agree with that. I shot some 8208 the last couple days, and the more i put in the case the better it shot. I wish i could have fit a little more in the case than i could. No pressure signs at all. Lee
 
skeetlee said:
""I am starting to think that a longer PPC, .025 or .050 along with the IMR 8208 would make a fine cartridge.""
I might tend to agree with that. I shot some 8208 the last couple days, and the more i put in the case the better it shot. I wish i could have fit a little more in the case than i could. No pressure signs at all. Lee
Click to expand...

Exactly the reason I said that :)
 
I shoot 30.3-30.5 without any real problem though I do use the longer drop tube.
 
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