Tough Kimber mainspring

Al Nyhus said:
If you need to use a hand gun, anything you've got in your hand is better than nothing. In Real-World self defense cases, distances are incredibly short...from 5 to 7 feet. Many are less than that. I want something simple...no geegaws, rails, lights, USB ports, signature grips or built in tooth pick holders. What I need a defensive hand gun to do is just give me a bit of time to get to the shotgun(s).

The simple 'J' frame S&W's have been doing it right for decades. ;) Forced to choose a pistol, my KelTec PMR30 would get the nod.

Good shootin':) -Al
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Yeahh.... a SHOTGUN shotgun, not one 'a them pistol shotgun thangs LOL

My son-in-law's Dad got talked into a Judge or a Governor or one a' them because he'd had some failures with small pistols. He was told by some local hero that "A .410 birdshot round is an ideal home defense setup" so he got one. His wife is on recording with 911 screaming "get someone out here NOW!!! He's just emptied his gun and he's hollering at me to bring him slugs 'cause this ain't working!!"

The docs picked over 100 #6's out of the guy's face, head and upper torso and he's back out and has resumed his B&A lifestyle....
 
FBecigneul said:
Even in your experience watching cowboy movies I would have thought you would have noticed the live cowboys were shooting and all the while looking for cover. In Au Trang after the first shot you were also on the defensive. I, and any sniper, will tell you before the first shot is taken you better have an escape plan. I’m alive so I must have paid attention. And this is the last time I waste time with you. You don’t listen; you wait to talk.
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Thank you for your service
 
alinwa said:
OK, some backstory.....

There are people who aren't comfortable with "cocked and locked" and there are a bunch of instructors out here in The Left who're advocating carry on an empty chamber with a 1911-style gun and to drag strong-handed, bring hands together at chest, rack and extend. She can't easily rack the thing with the hammer down. Maybe she'll choose to carry loaded, maybe she'll be more comfortable carrying hammer back but still training on an empty chamber, maybe she'll get a Glock. I dunno.

But in any case as much as I preach "Acquire-Fire" IMO getting the gun in hand right is 9/10 of the deal. It's also why I detest double-stacked brick hannles.... you have no idea where they're pointing even when good in hand.
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Not for nothing but why are you “ preaching” anything other than how to pour a basement?
 
Al,

I agree that the hit ratio with a handgun is poor, but that does not negate the fact, as far as terminal ballistics are concerned, that the two main requirements for stopping a human, or a deer, or elk, etc., are:

1. Shot placement
2. A bullet of proper construction

If you're going to take chunks, as you say, ideally, you want to take chunks out of stuff that matters and goes toward rendering the bad guy null and void. Meaningful chunks, if you will. Meaningful chunks come from proper shot placement.

If you are telling folks that proper shot placement during a gunfight is not possible, you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. No...those folks probably won't make good hits on target because they think they can't, or don't think it's important. You fight like you train.

Accurate, well placed shots can be had during a gunfight. Trust me. I spent 30 years in law enforcement and had occasion to see the effects of well placed rounds stemming from shoot em' ups on a number of occasions.

And as far as "center mass" and "double tap" being Hollywood movie stuff as you say, I would disagree. I learned both way back in 1990 during the police academy and I highly doubt that the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department based part of its firearms training curriculum on shooting scenes from cops and robbers movies. Both center mass and double tap (now called "controlled pairs") are viable, sound teachings. I've seen both used quite effectively with my own eyes.

Justin
 
Zebra13 said:
Al,

..........proper shot placement.
..........You fight like you train.
.......... Trust me. I spent 30 years in law enforcement.

Justin
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Justin..... I think we have a bunch of trained professionals getting involved, bringing in viewpoints that simply do not apply to my situation.

This girl IS NOT A COP! Nor a "sniper" nor any other sort of "operator."

Now I realize that a lot of you folks who've dedicated your lives to the protection of others don't believe that an untrained woman should be allowed to carry a gun, I get it. I don't let my range be used for training of govt shooters for exactly this reason.

I

do

not

agree

I believe any American non-felon should be able to order ANY firearm through the mail.... and be free to carry it anywhere.


Ohhh, and timmie, I'm an un-paid govt employee of WDFW...... I volunteer my time on my private NRA sanctioned range to train thousands of folks to handle firearms safely.

I'm sure you'd be much better at it than me but I just haven't seen you in our database of properly accredited teachers.
 
alinwa: I talked with a pretty sharp local pistol tuner yesterday about your friends issue. While he's worked quite a bit with that exact issue on the Kimber Micros, he's not found any meaningful changes that don't have significant downsides. It's really an issue of mass and inertia.

For what it's worth.... -Al
 
training

The OP mentioned at the start that he is not a Pistol Guy. So, some Pistol guys, jumped in and shared their experiences on the topic. Firearm operation, selection, tactics, etc. The same stuff you’d get in a Defensive Firearms training program. There are many such training programs around the country. A big percentage of those training programs,Curriculums, include instruction taught by experienced Law Enforcement professionals.

Any person, who chooses to carry concealed, can benefit tremendously from a training course. I carried a five shot S&W .38 snubby for 31 years. It never jammed.

https://www.azccw.com//



Glenn
 
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Chism G said:
I carried a five shot S&W .38 snubby for 31 years. It never jammed. Glenn
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Amen, Glenn. As we say here on the Northern Plains: "They don't never not work."

With a decent set of grips so my 'Hawaiian Peace Sign' finger ;) doesn't get battered by the trigger guard, this 442 is both controllable and accurate. My favorite 'J' S&W to date.

Good shootin' -Al

qLHyd0il.jpg
 
kimber

Alinwa, My daughters got one of those little kimbers dont know the model but its a bear to handle. On the light recoil spring, they make em easier to handle. I put too light of spring in my 220 sig messed up the slide or frame it locked up one day sent it back to Sig. Got my ass chewed when they sent it back for changing parts. So if ya go that route use the strongest spring you can get by with. Doug
 
Here’s mine Al. I got three speed loaders. I like your choice of ammo,especially the Wadcutters,

nmZArWx.jpg


A practice target my Granddaughter shot,first time out. She is not a Cop.

HITROjp.jpg
.

Glenn
 
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642

Glenn I got one of those little j frame 642s. Got tired of worrying about an auto going off in my pocket. Cop told me one time he would rather have a 22 rimfire than a 38. Said he worked a shooting one time. The guy was shot in the back and had a leather jacket on. The 38 didnt shoot thru the jacket. His exact words were a 22 will burn ya long and deep. They have better 38 ammo than they used to. Doug
 
alinwa said:
Justin..... I think we have a bunch of trained professionals getting involved, bringing in viewpoints that simply do not apply to my situation.

This girl IS NOT A COP! Nor a "sniper" nor any other sort of "operator."

Now I realize that a lot of you folks who've dedicated your lives to the protection of others don't believe that an untrained woman should be allowed to carry a gun, I get it. I don't let my range be used for training of govt shooters for exactly this reason.

I

do

not

agree

I believe any American non-felon should be able to order ANY firearm through the mail.... and be free to carry it anywhere.


Ohhh, and timmie, I'm an un-paid govt employee of WDFW...... I volunteer my time on my private NRA sanctioned range to train thousands of folks to handle firearms safely.

I'm sure you'd be much better at it than me but I just haven't seen you in our database of properly accredited teachers.
Click to expand...


Great, unless that involves shooting them and autopsies, stick to paper……and concrete.
 
Doug Casner said:
Glenn I got one of those little j frame 642s. Got tired of worrying about an auto going off in my pocket. Cop told me one time he would rather have a 22 rimfire than a 38. Said he worked a shooting one time. The guy was shot in the back and had a leather jacket on. The 38 didnt shoot thru the jacket. His exact words were a 22 will burn ya long and deep. They have better 38 ammo than they used to. Doug
Click to expand...

Squib Loads happen. Has nothing to do with caliber. Never happened to me,but I’ve heard similar stories.

Glenn
 
alinwa said:
Justin..... I think we have a bunch of trained professionals getting involved, bringing in viewpoints that simply do not apply to my situation.

This girl IS NOT A COP! Nor a "sniper" nor any other sort of "operator."

Now I realize that a lot of you folks who've dedicated your lives to the protection of others don't believe that an untrained woman should be allowed to carry a gun, I get it. I don't let my range be used for training of govt shooters for exactly this reason.

I

do

not

agree

I believe any American non-felon should be able to order ANY firearm through the mail.... and be free to carry it anywhere.


Ohhh, and timmie, I'm an un-paid govt employee of WDFW...... I volunteer my time on my private NRA sanctioned range to train thousands of folks to handle firearms safely.

I'm sure you'd be much better at it than me but I just haven't seen you in our database of properly accredited teachers.
Click to expand...

Nice redirection there, Al! I could swear I was talking about the importance of shot placement and you turned me into a misogynist in a black helicopter.

You should have been an attorney. Attorneys, much like yourself, think they're smarter than everybody else and simply can't wait to get up in the morning to hear what they have to say.

It has nothing to do with WHO you are teaching. It has to do with WHAT you are teaching. You are the ONLY "firearms instructor" I have EVER had occasion to speak with who doesn't emphasize the importance of proper shot placement in the act of self defense. And these instructors teach both law enforcement and civilian alike.

You fight like you train is not exclusive to trained professionals.

And proper shot placement is not exclusive to "trained professionals", either. I have seen many a gang member and dope dealer end all hostilities with a well placed round or two.

To not stress the importance of proper shot placement in self-defense, or to dismiss it as you "think" it's not practical, it won't happen anyways, etc., is negligent for myriad reasons. It flys in the face of everything I have been taught, seen taught, I've taught, been taught to teach, and is universally taught and accepted in the realm of self-defense.

And as far as not seeing me in your "data base of accredited instructors", no, you won't. I'm in a different firearms instructor data base and have been since 1993.

I'm curious...did your "accredited firearms instructor training" include getting shot at? Or put you in a high stress situation wherein your front sight is center chest on somebody and you're starting to take the slack out of the trigger? How about being at the scene of multiple shootings, both LE and civilian alike? Did you get to handle and examine bodies with gunshot wounds? How about going to the autopsies of gunshot wound victims? Did you get to talk with, or interview people who had actually been in a gunfight and learn what they thought and how they reacted? Me thinks not.

Turns out, I've experienced all of the above during my career. While I'm sure this does not meet the august standards to be included in your "data base of properly accredited teachers" like yourself, it does give me some practical, real life experience in the area of what occurs, and what works during a shooting.


Justin
 
Zebra13 said:
Nice redirection there, Al! I could swear I was talking about the importance of shot placement and you turned me into a misogynist in a black helicopter.

You should have been an attorney. Attorneys, much like yourself, think they're smarter than everybody else and simply can't wait to get up in the morning to hear what they have to say.

It has nothing to do with WHO you are teaching. It has to do with WHAT you are teaching. You are the ONLY "firearms instructor" I have EVER had occasion to speak with who doesn't emphasize the importance of proper shot placement in the act of self defense. And these instructors teach both law enforcement and civilian alike.

You fight like you train is not exclusive to trained professionals.

And proper shot placement is not exclusive to "trained professionals", either. I have seen many a gang member and dope dealer end all hostilities with a well placed round or two.

To not stress the importance of proper shot placement in self-defense, or to dismiss it as you "think" it's not practical, it won't happen anyways, etc., is negligent for myriad reasons. It flys in the face of everything I have been taught, seen taught, I've taught, been taught to teach, and is universally taught and accepted in the realm of self-defense.

And as far as not seeing me in your "data base of accredited instructors", no, you won't. I'm in a different firearms instructor data base and have been since 1993.

I'm curious...did your "accredited firearms instructor training" include getting shot at? Or put you in a high stress situation wherein your front sight is center chest on somebody and you're starting to take the slack out of the trigger? How about being at the scene of multiple shootings, both LE and civilian alike? Did you get to handle and examine bodies with gunshot wounds? How about going to the autopsies of gunshot wound victims? Did you get to talk with, or interview people who had actually been in a gunfight and learn what they thought and how they reacted? Me thinks not.

Turns out, I've experienced all of the above during my career. While I'm sure this does not meet the august standards to be included in your "data base of properly accredited teachers" like yourself, it does give me some practical, real life experience in the area of what occurs, and what works during a shooting.


Justin
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Nice try Justin but, no, no redirection by ME a'tall. I said from the start, I've got a friend with a stiff, hard to operate handgun.

She's a girl...

Now,

I'm not really sure why all the animus but........ sorry to have made you defensive....... really sorry you jumped with both feet into a comment directed straight at tim for absolutely no reason....

I'll play it again, s l o w l y



tim doesn't think i should teach anything except pouring basements

not sure exactly why now how tim gains his opinions because tim ain't listed in our teaching database

tim is no doubt better than me at most things (which is what i said in my post) bravo tim, "you da man" tim

tim has all sorts of opinions and things to say about me and others, all personal

kinda' like francis,

and now you



I teach safety.

I teach safety WELL.

I don't "train people to fight".

I don't "interview folks about fighting...."

I didn't ask for "gunfighters" to opine about "training to fight....."

In fact, I don't feel "fighting" is even a thing in this life unless you've chosen it. Which you and others here have. Whee....... Good On Ya, Thank You.

I haven't turned this into a pi$$ing contest.....!!........ You and your cop and sniper buddies all got'cher pannies in a wad re "training to kill" etc etc. Y'all wanna' crow your cred to the sky about "fighting" and "training to fight" and how many times y'all BEEN in a fight and how tough you are.....

And tim wants to be all like you.....

Y'know what??? Lotsa' "pistol guys" ain't never killed anyone nor even shot them. (((Ohh, and to clarify for you and francis.... that's called 'hyberbole'..... it's meant to illustrate my point)))

Jerry Miculek is a pistol guy in my world ..... I don't see him all swole about "gunfighting"

I've got a girl (woman) who has NO/ZERO/NADA interest in gunbattles.

She just wants to feel safe.

That's all.

The only "training" she does is how to get the gun into her hand.

So very sorry guys to have entered a room full of gunfighters but you have all been helpful

Thank You
 
Doug Casner said:
Alinwa, My daughters got one of those little kimbers dont know the model but its a bear to handle. On the light recoil spring, they make em easier to handle. I put too light of spring in my 220 sig messed up the slide or frame it locked up one day sent it back to Sig. Got my ass chewed when they sent it back for changing parts. So if ya go that route use the strongest spring you can get by with. Doug
Click to expand...

Thank You, this is helpful
 
Glen and Al..... thank you for posting those two pictures. A revolver is an option and those pictures both show the important part, that grip that keeps the flipper from being bruised.

I believe strongly that to get good at handling firearms one must shoot, a lot.

And that to shoot a lot requires equipment that's easy and fun.

Most of the men I know flinch.

Very few of the women and children we manage to get to early ever develop a flinch.

Those are nice setups.

My Wife carried and shot a Ladysmith for years.... she quit it for the reason you've both fixed.
 
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