Thoughts on Benchrest Competition

Wilbur said:
I can answer that first person! The benchrest competitor could care less about what happens at a club match.
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This is true. A socializer likes club matches but a competitor plans trips to bigger matches. If you gotta take vacation and drive 500mi one way it aint gonna be to attend a club match. I dont see that ever changing- at least it hasnt in the last 20yrs. Clubs schedule a couple registered matches and set up for that and dont interfere with a bigger match then youll get visitors. Think about how many club matches are held in the SE region then ask a competitor how many there are- a vast difference
 
The club matches compared to registered matches
Sort of speaks to the idea of different classes
The guys willing to commit the funds and time to be competitive. They want to shoot against the best there is. As far as new shooters go
We can't stop the disengagement of the generation behind us. With their face buried in their phones
 
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Thoughts on Benchrest

I stopped by the Super Shoot at Kelbly’s last year. I was visiting relatives in a nearby Town. Interestingly, I saw some of the same people at the Super Shoot that I see at Club Shoots here in the GCR. We have one Club Shoot in Houston that routinely attracts more shooters than some of the registered matches.

For many competitors, the journey starts at the informal/Club shoots. Where the journey goes from there, depends on individual motivation.

Take away the socialites from Benchrest and the Sport would die. The people that ,for the love of the sport, keep coming back. Some have never won much of anything. They buy the products and pay the match fees. These members are the driving force behind the ultimate survival of the Sport. These are the people that you have to thank.just for showing up at a match.

Every Competitor, regardless of status, socialite, HOF, is a recruiter.

Bring a shooter with you the next time you attend a match. You can’t make them come back. But, You can at least plant a seed.

Just my thoughts


Glenn
 
I had a friend that had a few benchrest rifles, and would go to his range and shoot on the weekends. He eventually started to have health issues and passed away. I know no one else that shoots benchrest, in this area. I would shoot a match if I had a clue how to shoot a match, how to tune to the conditions, or any of the other things that it takes to compete in a match. I have an older rifle that shoots fairly well when the conditions match my load. I guess what I am trying to say is there is a learning curve that is way too intimidating to me to try it by myself. Ive shoot some matches at Manatee with long range guns and done OK, never won but have finished second 3 times. The matches there don't seem to have many or any rules, you shoot what you brought, most hits wins. The little on no rules seemed to make it easier to just show up and shoot.
 
ebb said:
I had a friend that had a few benchrest rifles, and would go to his range and shoot on the weekends. He eventually started to have health issues and passed away. I know no one else that shoots benchrest, in this area. I would shoot a match if I had a clue how to shoot a match, how to tune to the conditions, or any of the other things that it takes to compete in a match. I have an older rifle that shoots fairly well when the conditions match my load. I guess what I am trying to say is there is a learning curve that is way too intimidating to me to try it by myself. Ive shoot some matches at Manatee with long range guns and done OK, never won but have finished second 3 times. The matches there don't seem to have many or any rules, you shoot what you brought, most hits wins. The little on no rules seemed to make it easier to just show up and shoot.
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It is intimidating going to the first match. No question. Set a goal for the first year just trying your best to not finish dead last.
Then go from there
 
Thoughts on Benchrest competition

I agree with Gen keep in mind that it takes a few bucks from the clubs to have a benchrest match Target cost's
setup times and general shutting down a range to change over to benchrest . not to mention backers and other equipment.
Most Ranges are set up for general shooting not just benchrest. The clubs have to turn some profit to make it doable.
A lot of members get angry when the range is closed If it doesn't turn a decent profit they moan even more

A championship match can be a real bear to run especially if the help isn't there.
In the older days when I stared shoot {early 70,s } the shooters ran the match . That,s gone the new kids on the block want to shoot and not help.

The match were way more friendly too. It was just bragging rights. The top shooters of the day would help new shooters along the way.
It costs quite a bit for trophy,s these days I know at my old club it was in the neighborhood of $500 or more.
That,s why match fees are expensive these day. if you take into account hiring a target crew you would se how and where the money goes from match fees.

Now the shooters have to have a place to stay for a 3 or 4 day match and in some places like here $100 per nite is the local norm in the summer time.
Recently the match fees have hit $100 dollars for a 2 day shoot Thats anew norm these days. so add it up, It gets expensive both for the shooters and for the club.

I haven't even mentioned what shooters demand showers , Rv parking and electrical hook ups room for all camper vehicles.
Getting a low turn out can really hurt a club attendance is critical . Did I mention a kitchen and crew? boy a club can really lose money there"

Most people don't know this I hope i've opened some eyes.
 
Chism G said:
Take away the [socializers] from Benchrest and the Sport would die. The people that ,for the love of the sport, keep coming back. Some have never won much of anything. They buy the products and pay the match fees. These members are the driving force behind the ultimate survival of the Sport. These are the people that you have to thank.just for showing up at a match.
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"Would die" might be an overstatement; however, without them the "big" matches would no longer be big and the match fees would probably be significantly higher.

GerryM said:
It costs quite a bit for trophy,s these days I know at my old club it was in the neighborhood of $500 or more.
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I wonder if the trophy cost is money well-spent because I suspect most of the folks who win most of the trophies don't really care about the trophies.
 
Y'all have mentioned just about everything. I haven't shot a benchrest match in years and years, and quite frankly, I'm losing a little perspective. Thanks for not jumping on me when I say something stupid!
 
Wilbur said:
I don't believe that you can change the game with any success. If you're going to do that just start something new. You risk losing the current competitors...no, let me say that differently....you WILL lose the current competitors and those you're going after won't show up more than once. AND...while I don't believe it will work, I'll help all I can in the case that I'm wrong. Remember what I said there!!
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Wilbur,
when I first read this, I disagreed because I overlooked this part in the middle of your post. I tend to give a lot of weight to what you put on this board, so from time to time I'll go back and reread some things. After giving it some thought I think you are correct. I don't believe that there will ever be enough support to make the needed changes in the two larger organizations. This is due to many reasons the major one being that humans in general just don't like change. The rule changing procedure doesn't lend itself to easy change and maybe that's a good thing. But it also impedes needed changes. Probably the way to bring change is just what you've said. Start something new. I tend to think that some of the worthwhile changes we've made with UBR would also work with group shooting, such as a class system for rifles, not competitors. I don't have any suggestions about the cost of putting on matches. It's not 1970 and everything costs more. Our sport is still cheaper than bass tournaments and probably golf. I don't think anyone shoots more in match competition than I do and I will continue as long as my health holds up and I can afford it.

Rick
 
Jammer Six said:
You're asking the wrong people.

You're asking people who are already bench rest shooters how to get more bench rest shooters.
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Jammer is absolutely correct. It is a tenant of product development to listen to what the customer wants. (Unless you are Steve Jobs, who was successful TELLING customers what they wanted, even if they didn't know it yet!) A survey among shooters who are not in the BR game would suggest what needs to be done to attract them. Wilbur is one and has identified cost and time as barriers, but there are also those who have never tried it that we need to hear from.
 
Thoughts on Benchrest competition

Yes they care about trophy's.
No trophy,s for bragging equals a low turn out.
Some tried Paper certificates some like them some think It CHEAPNESS on the club.
shooter demand quite a bit these days .
Even with out the cost of Trophy,s it still casts the club a lot
Some of the biggest problems is Target crews. and running a kitchen.
There are ways to cut costs but then it just doesn't seem to be the same for some reason.
You could get someone to cater a kitchen But the prices for the food would be higher.
You could get a target crew from the club if Your lucky.
Most of the clubs members don't want to help out.
Lets face it most are informal shooters.
I've seen a really good Benchrest club stop holding matches due to the help situation and other things'
That range was an ideal Benchrest range It had everything including a BIG loading Barn.
 
Yep cost and cost

mks said:
Wilbur is one and has identified cost and time as barriers, but there are also those who have never tried it that we need to hear from.


On many occasions I have been approcahed by on lookers when I have attended a club shoot or even when I have just rolled up to fire form some new brass. One of the first questions I am often asked what does it cost to get into this and how much to compete each year.

All I can do is give them estimates on what it costs me to travel to about 6 matches a year and what it costs me to feed the rifle. I also offer my thoughts on how I could reduce the cost if I had to. Often the reply is mate I ain't even close to being able to do that as much as I would like to. I know if I had the mortgage, car payments and a family I'd be saying the same thing. But if I had enough income to cover that and BR I wouldn't have the time to do it. The time would be spent making the money. I think this is a common problem. Trouble is I can't see any way around this issue.
Andy
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I am just getting in the 100-200 BR at 58yrs old. I can't imagine doing this if the kids were still on the teat. I am going to stay day trip local for the most part but I am fortunate that good shooting is just a few hours away in any direction. The $ outlay to get set up properly for the 6ppc has been considerable. I was lucky enough (hmmm) to trade myself into a nice Goodling LV and shooting it was what got me "hooked". I have had the gun and rest at my local range and let a few guys I have seen there before take a few shots. I had them dry fire it a few times and then shoot a 3 shot at a Sinclair practice target. Both guys had all 3 touching at 100 " Never shot like that in my life" is what was said. Then it came " how much to get set up" and when I said $2500. or so ( yeah right ) to get you out of the gate both recoiled like getting burned by something. My eyes were wide open coming into this so it was not a shock. I have a friend that is a drag racer and he let me take a pass in one of his cars....When I found out the $ involved in being able to compete in that I am sure my reaction was much the same as the guys at the range. I think doing most anything specialized like this ( BR ) is going to have a big cost in $-time & dedication. The admission to the pool if you just want to jump in and cool off can't really be done on the cheap from where I'm looking...............Rick
 
Assuming one has the money and time, attitude can be a barrier.

There is good access to matches here, (Seattle) and I think that will continue to be true, I have the money and the time, so my shooting is not in jeopardy. If your area is having problems attracting new shooters, I would rate attitude above money as a barrier.
 
Precision Rifleman

Some are suggesting that we are talking to the wrong people in efforts to attract more people to the Sport. Now, all we need to do is identify who the right people are. I’m curious to know myself.

The Staff at Precision Rifleman,”The Voice Of The NBRSA” is doing a great job of reporting the Benchrest story. Articles covering both past and current Benchrest events . Colorful photos, prices of equipment. match results,equipment lists. A monthly collection of information specific to the Sport of Benchrest Competitiion.

Precision Rifleman is a great way to share information about the Sport for those who are clueless.

I sent an issue of the magazine to a relative who lives in Oberlin,Ohio.
He was astonished that a centerfire rifle would shoot 1,000yds. His comment was, “Damn,that’s ten Football fields. He played Football in College.

I know I will never recruit this relative to the Sport of Benchrest Competition. It was,however, an, eye opening experience for him to flip through the pages of the Precision Rifleman magazine. He still hasn’t returned my magazine.

The re-introduction of the magazine was a step in the right direction. I whole heartedly agree with the Comment" You can take a Horse to water but you can't make him drink"


Glenn
 
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Here's the deal I believe some of you are missing. Benchrest shooters ARE NOT INTERESTED in anything but Benchrest shooting. They don't care if the current venue dies from lack of participation. I'm in support of that thought entirely. If a benchrest shooter chooses, he can always shoot something else and most will when the time comes. Some do that now.

At one time, benchrest matches were held solely because it was time to have a benchrest match. I'll ask as I don't know....what happened to that line of thought?

You can't see Benchrest as it is with anything other than the right stuff....pretty good stuff actually.
 
I guess I can put my 2 cents worth in.

Benchrest is different that most, perhaps all, other Shooting Disciplines in that you are only as good as the Rifle sitting in the bags. Here is the analogy I like to use.

Let's say you have a local Shot Gun Club. You have club matches, just informal get together..

One day, one of the Grand Masters, for lack of a better term, of Shotgunning is in town and decides to come and shoot your match. He doesn't have a Gun, so he is offered a loaner.

He would still probably win the whole thing.

In Benchrest, if the same thing happenned, and he was offered a Rifle that was good, but not as good as the one you were shooting, he probably would not win anything. You can't make a Rifle that is locked into. .280 aging capability shoot at a sub .200 level.

In short, Benchrest is 75 percent Rifle, 25 percent shooter.

How many of you have see a new guy, buy pure chance, score a great barrel and some great bullets right out of the gate, and win. I have, several times. The problem is, when he uses up that barrel, and those bullets, reality sets in, and he either searches again for that great combination, or quits.

I run the Tomball Gun Club "club matches". We shoot the regular NBRSA VFS Format, with very relaxed rules on the Rifles. In fact, the rules for the Benchrest Class, the top class, are....."any legal firearm".

We also offer a Factory Class, and a Modified Class. On a good day, we might have 40 shooters, with 90 percent participation being in The Benchrest Class.

We give out the same 1st, 2d, and 3d place Ribbons for all three classes. Why don't we have more participation in the Factory and Modified Classes, I honestly don't know. It's certainly not for lack of trying. And, a lot of people in the Metro Houston area know about our Matches. Here is the chance for A relative new shooter to come to a Benchrest Match with a minimum investment, (we allow AR's in Factory and Modified), not have to shoot against the "gurus", and win a ribbon. Why don't they?

This old thing of different classifications in Competitive Benchrest comes up periodically. The fact is, it won't work. Great Rifles make Good Shooters. Give a person with a reasonable idea of how the game works a Great Rifle with a great tune, and he will probably beat you.

Most of the top shooters I know don't spend time at the range practicing to shoot, they spend time perfecting the ever changing combination. New barrels, new lots of bullets, new powder. They know the secret to Benchrest is the Rifle.

That is where there are no shortcuts. One the hardest things to do is to take that brand new barrel off because you know it's not going to cut it. Or take those 5000 new bullets and relegate them down to fireforming status because at the end of the age, they are going to shoot around .250. Regardless of your best efforts.

All through the 2000's, I shot a lot of matches. About 5 years ago, our Business really picked up, and now I just shoot local Score matches with an occasional group match tossed in. That, along with running the Tomball Club Matches pretty much take up my time. I like the score matches, because they are usually just one day, you go, shoot, get home in time to get rested for the next day's work. I'm 68 now, and the idea of traveling 5 hours, shooting all week end, getting back home in time to get up and face the working world simply does not have as much appeal as it used too.

I was all set to go to the NBRSA Nationals this year, but business just got in the way. I thought of going and just shooting Unlimited Monday and Tuesday,but I forgot they changed the Format. So I said to hell with it.

I really don't like to get in the "score vs group" argument. Let's just say that either requires the same dedication to getting the Rifle and the Combination as right as it can be if you expect to ever win anything.
 
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