They feel our Pain

Pete Wass

Pete Wass

Well-known member
I heard today Toyota lost money last quarter for the first time in the companies history. Shows ya how important credit is to consumer goods and how few people actually PAY for a car when they buy them. The Loss was a big one, something well over a Billion, as I recall.
 
I think the key is the fact that Toyota lost money for the first time in how long???? When was the last time Ford, Chevy, etc... ever made any money, even during the booming times with credit going everywhere. Shows the sad fate of a lot of the U.S. manufacturing base. And for the most part, it's not the employees...it's the unions and those who run the compainies. They have ended up ruining america. A country is only worth what it can manufacture...and we don't make squat overall anymore.

Hovis
 
Hovis you are right on. I worked in the sewing thread business-sales to manufacturers- for almost 45 years prior to my retirement and to see all the sewing industry move out of the country was frightening. Most of that was caused by greed. Nike started it by getting their shoes made in China, bringing them into the US an average cost of $20.00 per pair and selling them for as much as $150.00 per pair and people stood in lline to buy them. If the foreign imports all of a sudden dried up our population would freeze to death because we could not gear up fast enough to make enough clothing to clothe our population. Kinda scares the ell out of you when you start to think about it.
 
Toooo..... Bad!

Retired 33 yrs. US owned..... Auto worker, Tooooo..... Bad.
Made my day.:D
 
Waylan Kisor said:
Hovis you are right on. I worked in the sewing thread business-sales to manufacturers- for almost 45 years prior to my retirement and to see all the sewing industry move out of the country was frightening. Most of that was caused by greed. Nike started it by getting their shoes made in China, bringing them into the US an average cost of $20.00 per pair and selling them for as much as $150.00 per pair and people stood in lline to buy them. If the foreign imports all of a sudden dried up our population would freeze to death because we could not gear up fast enough to make enough clothing to clothe our population. Kinda scares the ell out of you when you start to think about it.
Click to expand...

Your right. One of the things I dealt with in the Army for a while was procurement. The U.S. can no longer (and haven't been able to for a while) sustain itself in the manufacturing industry. It's sad but greed (easy money) has sent us down the tube and those who put us there wants the goverment (us...the taxpayer) to bail them out so they can keep screwing us. Any bailout or any other money going to help this economy needs to be tied to manufacturing jobs in america. The darnest thing I seen/heard during the auto bailout talks was from the CEO of GM when he said they would use the mone to stream line production and went on to state later that a reduction in workforce, modernizing plants (to get rid of workers) and streamlining supplies (moving more jobs overseas). America needs to take a look back in history at those like Hershey who instead of laying people off...he took the loss and hired people...because if people don't have good jobs to buy items like cars..etc...then what good does a expensive car made as cheap as it can for profits do??? Hershey was famous for one instance...during he depression, he decided to build plants and hire people. He showed up at a work site and seen these new steam buckets. He asked the foreman of the site about how good they were and he said they did the work of twenty men. Hershey said...then get rid of the da*n thing and hire twenty men.

Hovis
 
You can blame the Unions and the people that manage the Big Three but these people are us. The union rank and file that got greedy and lazy and the stockholders that put the management in place via their votes from the top down.

Sounds a lot like our form of government. Doesn't it?

In my opinion, Detroit hasn't turned out anything of quality since 1972. About the time the government started hammering the Big Three with emission mandates. Even then the product might have been crap but easier to work on crap. Instead of producing a quality product they started producing to the mandates. They could have did both (like Toyota and Honda) but chose greed over quality.

Until the work ethic and the desire to produce a quality product returns to this country, our auto industry will continue on its present downward spiral.

I have little faith that this industry beast can be turned around and made profitable. In the end we will have to let it fade away because of the cost. I, for one, won't purchase the crap being produced and haven't for many years. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of choice as to how my taxes are spent but I do have a choice with regard to after tax dollars and it won't be spent on their products. Not until they restore the faith, anyways.

IMHO.
 
Disagree here....

Sitting Duck said:
In my opinion, Detroit hasn't turned out anything of quality since 1972. About the time the government started hammering the Big Three with emission mandates. Even then the product might have been crap but easier to work on crap. Instead of producing a quality product they started producing to the mandates. They could have did both (like Toyota and Honda) but chose greed over quality.IMHO.
Click to expand...

Disagree here. For the last ten years American car manufacturers have improved the quality of their product until now it is on a par with the Japanese cars. One problem is and will remain so as long as we can afford to run them, is most of us prefer BIG, including me. Yes, I drive a double cab 1/2 ton pickup truck. Could I get along with a hatch back compact that would still serve to haul my shooting gear around. Sure; but I just don't want to. I like the versatility and comfort of that big V8 that pulls without effort, doesn't spend half its time shifting gears to maintain speed when in cruise control, and has plenty of room for that unexpected piece of gear I almost forgot. Plus I can invite a buddy to ride along and share expenses to the Nationals without having to take two vehicles. Hey; that way I can still afford to buy stuff from Ron Hoehn.

Now what did Detroit do? You bet; they flooded the market with what we WANTED to buy. But...when gas headed toward the $4 mark we panicked and started to blame the industry. Well, some of that blame is justified, but not all. Just look in the mirror for 80 percent of it.

And...as long as gas remains below three dollars per gallon, I'll keep the pickup...and purchase a new one when the time comes.:rolleyes:

Happy cruising....virg
 
virg said:
Disagree here. For the last ten years American car manufacturers have improved the quality of their product until now it is on a par with the Japanese cars. One problem is and will remain so as long as we can afford to run them, is most of us prefer BIG, including me. Yes, I drive a double cab 1/2 ton pickup truck. Could I get along with a hatch back compact that would still serve to haul my shooting gear around. Sure; but I just don't want to. I like the versatility and comfort of that big V8 that pulls without effort, doesn't spend half its time shifting gears to maintain speed when in cruise control, and has plenty of room for that unexpected piece of gear I almost forgot. Plus I can invite a buddy to ride along and share expenses to the Nationals without having to take two vehicles. Hey; that way I can still afford to buy stuff from Ron Hoehn.

Now what did Detroit do? You bet; they flooded the market with what we WANTED to buy. But...when gas headed toward the $4 mark we panicked and started to blame the industry. Well, some of that blame is justified, but not all. Just look in the mirror for 80 percent of it.

And...as long as gas remains below three dollars per gallon, I'll keep the pickup...and purchase a new one when the time comes.:rolleyes:

Happy cruising....virg
Click to expand...

I'll have to disagree on product quality. Now most of the problems do not lay with the quality of the american worker. It is the cheap bearings, alternators and other items that the american auto industry uses. Right now, I have Ford, Chevy, Lincoln, German vehicles and have owned Jap's. The Jap's are the best made. Better quality hands down. I'm constantly having things fixed on everything else. The best american made vehicle I've had in the last ten years is the Vette I have, other than that...Junk. Do I like big...absolutely...my favorite vehicle I ever had was my Excursion diesel...and they don't make them anymore but I'm either gonna buy another one of those or a Toyota. I have a lot of friends employed by Toyota and the industry that supplies them here locally. Help a friend and get a heck of product to.

Hovis
 
Well..

Sitting Duck said:
You can blame the Unions and the people that manage the Big Three but these people are us. The union rank and file that got greedy and lazy and the stockholders that put the management in place via their votes from the top down.

Sounds a lot like our form of government. Doesn't it?

In my opinion, Detroit hasn't turned out anything of quality since 1972. About the time the government started hammering the Big Three with emission mandates. Even then the product might have been crap but easier to work on crap. Instead of producing a quality product they started producing to the mandates. They could have did both (like Toyota and Honda) but chose greed over quality.

Until the work ethic and the desire to produce a quality product returns to this country, our auto industry will continue on its present downward spiral.

I have little faith that this industry beast can be turned around and made profitable. In the end we will have to let it fade away because of the cost. I, for one, won't purchase the crap being produced and haven't for many years. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of choice as to how my taxes are spent but I do have a choice with regard to after tax dollars and it won't be spent on their products. Not until they restore the faith, anyways.

IMHO.
Click to expand...

I humbly disagree with you on the quality of american cars...having had no less than 15 GM, Chrysler and Fords (mostly Taurus) I have had only one problem with all of them combined...a new alternator after 200 miles on the Chrysler. My wife's current Chevy van has over 100K with nothing more than routine mainetnance and parts. I have a GM pickup that is the best vehicle I have ever driven. You can have your opinion on the quality issue, but imho you are wrong. Regards --Greg
 
I have been driving Chrysler products since 1995. Had a new 1995 Grand Caravan that at 50,000 miles had the transmission fail completely. Chrysler dealer wanted 1800 to repair or 2300 for a new tranny. I went with a local transmission repair place. Guy said he kept one on the shelf rebuilt because so many failed. Said it was a design problem that Chrysler refused to acknowledge. Cost me $1300 and one day to install. Drove it a while and sold it to buy a 2001 Chrysler van. Thought the tranny would be fixed by then. Tranny failed or rather the computer that controls the shifting failed at 48,000 miles. Lots of words with local dealer. They agreed to replace it and split the price with me. Lasted 2 days, they installed a remanufactured one. More words. Install a new one this time, OK till now. I am driving it as it was my wifes car. It has 72,000 on it and after 4 trips to dealer and about $1400 they finally got the A/C fixed this summer. Also had to have front end rebuilt. Real piece of excrement. Also had a 1998 Dodge 1/2 ton pu that always had something wrong with the cruise control. Other than that it was OK. Now have a 2004 3/4 ton Dodge with the Hemi engine. GAS HOG. That is why I drive the old chrysler van. Wife has a new Toyota Avalon with the 3.5 V-6 that will get an honest measured and calculated 30 mpg on the highway. Love it. Out of 4 Chrysler products, lost tranny on two. Never have driven a vehicle more than about 90,000 miles and that was a Toyota. Traded it for a Honda, then got dumb and went to Chrysler. Maybe I was just unlucky but will not buy any more Chrysler products for sure. Don't know why the big 3 can't build reliable vehicles. I do think they are doing much better now but are burdended with too high wages, benefits, retirement, etc. That is management cratering to union demands. Seems like a guy by name of Peterson or Pederson tried to reform US automakers years ago but they rebuffed him. He went to Japan, they welcomed him. Now we see the results. Detroit is bad enough but Wall St. is even worse. GREED and no feelings for what is happening all around them. My wifes 401K is turning into a 104K and my IRA's are turning into IOU's. The US is in one bad state of affairs and I don't think anyone knows what to do about it. Makes me want to puke. Nuff said, now will go take my xanax.

Donald
 
glp said:
I humbly disagree with you on the quality of american cars...having had no less than 15 GM, Chrysler and Fords (mostly Taurus) I have had only one problem with all of them combined...a new alternator after 200 miles on the Chrysler. My wife's current Chevy van has over 100K with nothing more than routine mainetnance and parts. I have a GM pickup that is the best vehicle I have ever driven. You can have your opinion on the quality issue, but imho you are wrong. Regards --Greg
Click to expand...

Well I don't know if 22 years experience as a mechanic qualifies me to form an opinion...., but I have worked in a combination Lexus/Chevrolet dealer for 6 years. I have since opened my own Lexus/ Toyota repair shop, been in business 7 years now. There is no comparison in quality, actually I witnessed GMs severe decline in quality starting in 1999, when Mexico was their choice for upping their quality. Toyota quality has slipped a little because they've made the mistake of too much diversity in their product line. There is also a big difference in quality of Jap cars that are built in the USA. The Japanese people are totaly different than us in work ethic. There whole concept of life is their work and working a lot. Our lazy people cannot compete with that. Sorry, I'm as patriotic as anyone, it's really a shame.
 
30 + year Union member

Don't lay so much blame on the Unions. The companies signed off on each and every one of the Union contracts. The Unions have a place in America and always will as long as there is greed in Corporate America. If it weren't for the Unions we would all be working for McPay of $7.00 an hour.
Teamster member: Jim Askren
 
Jim Askren said:
Don't lay so much blame on the Unions. The companies signed off on each and every one of the Union contracts. The Unions have a place in America and always will as long as there is greed in Corporate America. If it weren't for the Unions we would all be working for McPay of $7.00 an hour.
Teamster member: Jim Askren
Click to expand...

Jim,

The ONLY reason you could possibly be working for the "McPay of $7.00 an hour" would be because you suck. I'm an employer and I tell my guys right up front, "make yourself valuable to me so that I want to pay you more"...... this is how AMERICA works, you get paid more for increasing your skills. There are never enough GOOD Men available.

The gut problem with unions is that they still guarantee the pay EVEN THOUGH you suck, the incentive to improve yourself and thereby your lot is gone.

the next four to eight years will make or break us for the following 20yrs. Either the unions will be crushed and America will return to capitalism, or Obam'ers Dream will become reality and we'll end up "like Europe" groping about in a morasse of socialism.

Ohhh, and the companies didn't "sign off of each and every union contract", they had a gun to their head. Now the families of the union members, and taxpayers, will pay the consequences. You guys deferred all your bills to your kids!

Merry Christmas :)


al
 
Jim Askren said:
Don't lay so much blame on the Unions. The companies signed off on each and every one of the Union contracts. The Unions have a place in America and always will as long as there is greed in Corporate America. If it weren't for the Unions we would all be working for McPay of $7.00 an hour.
Teamster member: Jim Askren
Click to expand...

Greed in corporate America? You might want to take a hard look at how many of your dues $ go to pay your national officers, no conflict of interest there. Pay particular attention to your pension guys.
 
97 Dodge 1500
New Front Brake Rotors at 20M miles
New Tranny at 55M miles
Rebuild front end and all new brakes, rotors and drums at 76M miles
Broken emergency brake cable at 80M miles and I rarely use it
I'm gonna' buy a Tundra after the Holidays.
I hate to do it but I had the same kinda crap with my 94 Ford
My neighbor has 1 Tundra with 210M miles on it and another with 115M
hasn't put a penny into either.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
i work for the Service Solutions division of SPX corp. we hold exclusive special service tool contracts with John Deere, Honda, BMW, and Toyota as well as providing over 80% of the special service tools and diagnostic equipment for GM, Chrysler, and Ford. basicly if task cannot be accompished with normal tools or can be made easier, we make a tool for it. as well as the diagnostic computers and programs. think I'm full of it? look into it.


i can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that besides over zealous crediting, warranty claims have cost the auto industry BIG TIME. everyone not just the big 3. but the sad fact of the matter is that the over seas guys make a more reliable product. and thus have fewer claims. on the other hand VERY few domestic vehicles purchased in the past 8 years will complete the warranty period without needing repair of some kind. in fact most likely 95% of them will, and of those roughly half if not more will be over 2000 dollars

so you have a combination of over zealous crediting, combined with huge 10 year 100,000 mile warranties on a product who's quality is not what it could be.

and our tools and equipment dont come cheap :)
 
and our tools and equipment dont come cheap :)[/QUOTE]

True, but they're worth it. Excellent quality. We're doing our part to keep you in business.:p
 
alinwa

I had some respect for you until you posted your anti union statements. You obviously know nothing about how the contracts work and your statement about holding a gun to ones head ended a very long time ago. You don't like unions, and I despise those who pay minimum wage and no benefits to their employees. You sound a bit like the Walton's. If and when people like you are successful in your quest to rid our country of unions, your children, grandchildren, and their children will be working for whatever their employer chooses to pay them. And like most non union employees, they will accept whatever is offered and keep their mouthes shut.
 
And all the way the union employees will become more and more unemployed because us poor ol common folks can't afford the expensive product high union wages create. I have nothing against unions doing what they were meant for but anymore they are more currupt and greedy than any company.

Hovis
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top