The dreaded 2 and 1................

CYanchycki

CYanchycki

Club Coordinator
:confused:

Okay, since many try to diagnose issues with the help of the Forum here is my dilema.

New Kreiger 13.5, 4 groove, .269 neck chamber. 32 rounds down so far. 53.5clks (Harrell, approx 29.2grs 133). 10 thou jam with Opel 64.5 gr Bullet. I chose that load because it looked like it was the most promising during my small break in process. I do have a tuner on it but I will not muck with it till this thing is shooting.

I know I know, how can we help you diagnose the issue.....

This is what I am wondering. I am getting the PERFECT 2 and 1 right now. I had my chronograph out and was getting an average velocity around 3480FPS. This is a lighter bullet than say the common 68gr bullet. I am wondering if they are being driven to hard?

I am going to go back and try working up again.
 
Is this a new rifle, or do you have experience with it with another barrel? How are you shooting it, and how hard are your bags? Where is your front bag on the stock?
 
That seems like a lot of velocity with just 29.2 grns of 133. I shoot just about the same combo, except with a 65 grn Barts BT. 29.2 yields about 100 fps less.

It takes about 30.5 grs of 03 133 to get above 3450......jackie
 
Two and one are real common 3 shot groups in cold weather. Reason, heavy coat interferes with the gun recoil. If you are getting one by itself then the next two go in the same hole, try backing off from the butt about an inch.
 
Boyd I have had the rifle for about 4 years. I have not shot it much the last year and a half as I got another and I liked the way it tracked and well basically the general feel of it.

The rifle I am talking about is:

Robertson BRX stock
Bat SB action
Jewell
Leupold 45X Bukys conversion
Bukys mount
Kreiger barrel

This is the first Kreiger, well first non Canadian made barrel on this rifle. The other barrels were a lot lighter than I wanted. Slight slip up but that is anotehr story. I finally have a weight of barrel that I am happy with. I decided I would give this rifle another go.

The reason for giving it anotehr go is a few things. I found out early last year after inspecting it closely that my bolt WAS NOT going down all of the way. The underside was hitting the stock. I did some surgery on that to open up and give me more clearance. Now I hear the handle hit metal when the bolt is closed. The other thing was all the talk about the short bolts and poor ignition I sent the bolt down to Wayne Campbell and had him work it over. I now feel I can give this rifle an honest effort this time. The only thing I would possibly do different is a different stock. I sure want one of then Leonards. They sure are BEAUTIFUL.

In the past I have never won a 2 gun or aggregate but I have won a few yardages with it.

Like I said being a Canuck and not close to the Ontario shooters or my Bud's it is a hard learning curve.

I hate to say it but it has shown promise. Like Wilbur says it shoots or it doesn't. Well it is hard for me to say when only one other person has shot it a few times and each time he shot it, it would drill them in there. I was not happy with some of my initial brass prep or my sizing die but I am happy where I am at now. I have a Harrel that is working for me and I got the sizing down to where it feels just right. It needs to be NO MORE than 1/2 to 1 thou shoulder bump for that nice closing feeling. 1/2 slight resistance, 1 thou the bolt almost wants to fall on its own.

Boyd after you talk about how hard is the bag (wanted to say my bag.... LOL) the rear is pretty hard. The front is a SEB rest with the SEB front bag. I will try and get a few pictures later on to maybe give an idea of my setup. 2 bags I have are Protectors and the other is the new Edgewood Frog (BOOB) bag. The frog is all leather a soft leather with the integrated donut. One Protector is all leather with the thin hard leather base and short leather bunn ears single stitched. The other has Cordura ears. I forgot what it is called, it is double stictched.

I was running the keel of the the stock with the Frog and leather eared Protector on the corners of the keel. It just seemed like it would not sit in there well enough. All I hear is run the keel along the outside edges with it NOT touching on the bottom.

With the double stitch bag it rides along the bottom of the keel because the bag is double stitched. With this bag setup I have had my best luck winning my first 2 gun last year with my other rifle which is a Robertson JTR stock.

Anyways I went out again today with the rifle and man it wants to shoot but there is something there that is just holding it or mke back. I am leaning towards that the rear bags are just to firm. The reason I have them packed firm is I am a free recoil shooter with a SEB rest. I was told that the bag needs to be filled enough so there is NO springiness in the middle of the bag. When you push down between the ears you do not want there to be a void with no sand. The only way I can see getting that is filling it and good at that.

Like I said I will try and get pics up for you later on.

Jackie that average was over 10 shots. And yes 29.2 of a lot of 08 133. No problem at all extracting and the primers look fine. The kicker is that is just over an el cheapo Chrony Chronograph. Unfortunately NO Oehler for me. That is why I have been asking about the CED on another post.

Jerry, thankfully the winter this year has been AWESOME. Almost NO snow and today the temp got up to about 7 above Celcius. So no dreaded heavy jacket while shooting. T-shirt with a sweat shirt overtop.

This is a little more info for you guys.

Calvin
 
I had the same thing a couple of weeks ago.
I think I had taken my coat off.
The bullets were 62gr. .269 neck.
But I havent been back to try and solve it.
Using chargemaster for powder.
 
One thing to try, back that V133 way down. I know a lot of people who have good success with it in cold weather and a lite charge, don't know why, just a fact. Had a guy tell me one time to put some white cardboard about three feet or so in front of the muzzle and shoot a couple of rounds throught it in cold weather with heavy charges. Guess what, lots of unburnt powder stuck in it. Same guy said to look down the bore and if it looked dirtier than normal and it's cold, same thing, go way down on the charge. Just something to try.

Hovis
 
CYanchycki said:
Jerry, thankfully the winter this year has been AWESOME. Almost NO snow and today the temp got up to about 7 above Celcius. So no dreaded heavy jacket while shooting. T-shirt with a sweat shirt overtop.

This is a little more info for you guys.

Calvin
Click to expand...

Next we will hear you and Gammon are running around barefoot.

I'm still sewed up in my red flannels!!!
 
Don't want this to get off topic but my daughter and I were down at Disney World the week of Feb 6th. I was a BIT disappointed that the entire week we were down there the temps did not get into the 80's. The one night it got down to about 35. Guess it was still better than minus temps and snow.
 
It needs to be NO MORE than 1/2 to 1 thou shoulder bump for that nice closing feeling. 1/2 slight resistance said:
Out of everything you mention, this statement jumped out at me. I believe that 1/2 thousandth setback is NOT enough. If the bolt closes with slight resistance on some cases and none on some, groups will suffer, period. If your die is adjusted for 1/2 thou setback with fresh brass, it will need to be re-adjusted after a couple firings as the cases work harden. Just another thing to worry about during a match. If you adjust for just a tiny bit more, (.001 - .002 or so) it may help and it absolutely will not hurt.

Scott
Click to expand...
 
Al, you have a GOOD memory in regards to the tuner. In regards to trying SEVERAL bullets that is one of the biggest kickers living here. COSTS A FORTUNE to try different bullets. Would be great if we could legally just order and have them shipped across the line. Unfortunately Department of Homeland Security considers that a CRIMINAL act. I have access to some Barts 68's, Bergers, and Opel's bullets in 66gr (.825 jkt), 64.5gr (.790 jkt) and I hear through the grapevine he is trying some on a .750 jacket. Other wise I am relegated to trying other bullets when I go to shoots States side.

Jackie, Bill, Joel, Hovis, I am thinking that things are to hot.

As Boyd said the other may be bags that are to hard. The front SEB bag almost feels kind of spongy. I think ...... not sure......but the fabric he uses possibly creates that. I figured would not be an issue as it would make the front bag appear softer?????

Anyways here are some pics of the way I would normally set the rest, bag and rifle up on a bench.

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My plan is when the weather gets a bit better, to start with the obvious, slow them bullets down a tad. And give it a go. Then work with the rear bags and soften them up a tad and see what happens.

Later

Calvin
 
dunno as the dept of homeland security would let all those smiley faces into the states..... dunno as they should....


lol

al
 
That is a really good looking rig. The only question that I have is whether the butt resting on the stitching between the rear ears of the rear bag is a good idea. A while back I was in on a discussion of this point and learned that a thousand yard shooter who posted on that thread has had very good results with that sort of rear bag fit, but I know some very good short range shooters that go the other way. Have you ever shot on a different bag that left a gap between the ears, under the butt? Was there a difference?
 
Thanks for this thread I'm fighting the same thing. We shoot score here and I'm doing it with a .269 ppc. Everything feels fine and I expect to see the dot disappear or at least a 10 and it's a solid 9 or maybe even the odd 8.It happens at least every 7 I started off swapping around scopes, working up with different bullets, many different cases, the whole time wondering about the barrel. This issue has been with me since I built this gun, it's frustrated me enough to put it on the back burner.

I'm watching this thread for more ideas.

Mike
 
JIMO, two things to consider 1) bunny ears are very finicky to get a consistent setup especially in score. With bunny ears the side bias (for lack of a better term) is too hard to get consistent. 1-1/2" ears will give you a more even contact between the bottom surface and side surfaces. Rabbit ears give too much top bias.

And 2) consider setting up to where you are not against the buttplate or the bag corner. with too much stock overhang, that shows here, it is easy to shoulder the stock conversely, with not enough overhang it is easy to get against the bag corner.

There is no magic rear setup. It is all according to your body structure and how high you set on the gun at the bench. My recommendation, try different setups till you get a consistent feel and consistent results.
 
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