Significant rule changes at Williamsport

Not Obsolete

mongo said:
Good luck with the "incentive". I'm under the impression that the IBS doesn't care what others do. They consider themselves leaders not followers. Williamsport will probably go to a 5 shot group before IBS compromises on anything. Did you guys at Williamsport think about the people who may have had new guns built over the winter to satisfy the old rules.
Now with the new rules a LG is obsolete at 16.5 w/3" for-end. If you made these ideas public maybe people that had new guns built over the winter would have used stocks with wider for-ends and rears, heavy barrels, making 17# etc.. HG would have brakes on them. know, I'm sure you didn't think of this if you did you wouldn't have rushed the changes and instead the new rules would be effective for the 2009 season giving people time to make the adjustments.
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Mongo,

Believe me, your light gun is not obsolete. A 16.5 lb. rifle can and is competitive in any class "as long as the shooter does his or her part" Williamsport shooters have proven this for years, in any competitive venue we've participated in.

Bob Pastor
 
Charles

I already have the agenda items written and signatures started. I am putting the items on PDF files and can email to any club. All they have to do is get signatures and send in. By putting on PDF, no one can change the wording and the total signatures can be counted. That way no need for two different worded agenda items to get to the meeting.

I have just been real busy and not had time to do that. Will try to get it done tomorrow and anyone that wants a copy for their club can email me.

Herman
 
Charles E said:
This shows either a lack of knowledge about, or an insensitivity about, how the IBS 1,000 yard rules were first formed. Some people in IBS are fractious, yes. But aren't we all?
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We are not all difficult to deal with! Why not explain "lack of knowledge about, or an insensitivity about, how IBS 1000 yard rules were first formed". I'm all ears better yet eyes!
By the way "leaders not followers" is a compliment!
 
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BountyHunter said:
Charles

I already have the agenda items written and signatures started. I am putting the items on PDF files and can email to any club. All they have to do is get signatures and send in. By putting on PDF, no one can change the wording and the total signatures can be counted. That way no need for two different worded agenda items to get to the meeting.

I have just been real busy and not had time to do that. Will try to get it done tomorrow and anyone that wants a copy for their club can email me.

Herman
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Herman
I assume that this agenda item will be to allow brakes on all guns in heavy gun class. I looked back at the agenda for the last meeting and see that it was only to allow a light gun with a brake to be shot in heavy gun class. I can understand how that didn't pass as I'm sure someone would have been ticked off if they had to shoot their heavy gun without a brake next to someone with a loud braked light gun next to them.

James
 
Mondo,

OK. Basically, when the IBS first considered sanctioning 1,000 yard matches, The Original Pennsylvania 1,000 yard Benchrest Club was to be the flagship member within the IBS. Their rules were to be adopted whole cloth. For whatever reason, Pennsylvania decided to remain independent, but the rules were still adopted, as they existed at Pennsylvania at that time -- there was no Light Gun class per se.

As many of the soon-to-be IBS shooters were varmint hunters, the LG class was added by IBS. Pennsylvania followed with a light gun class a little later, but instead of looking at what IBS 1K shooters had done, they looked more at the rules of traditional short-range benchrest. Even later, they made some changes to the HG rules, but these have since been returned to the original. The allowance of a muzzle brake is new for Pennsylvania; it originated in NBRSA to allow a light gun to shoot in the HG class.

We are now all to the point of shooting a common set of rules as pertains to the gun, except for the brake in HG in IBS.

So if you want, IBS was the originator only of the Light Gun class, but even here, we merely followed the original Pennsylvania HG rules except for a weight limit & allowing a brake.

For myself, the only further thing I'd like to see cleared up are the rest rules. As currently specified, a short-range shooter cannot assume his/her rest will be legal at a 1,000 yard IBS match. I'm not sure about Pennsylvania. The rests would be legal in NBRSA. With all our talk about not discouraging new shooters, this could stand some attention. As evidence, we picked up some short range shooters when NBRSA (short range only) decided to start checking that stocks met the stock profile, and a few people got irritated that their $1,000 stocks were found not to conform. Being told their rests weren't IBS (long range) legal turned a few of them back.

So there you have it. Each of the sanctioning bodies has made some "mistakes." But the bulk of our rules, the spirit of them if you will, goes way back to the Pennsylvania organization.
 
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One more item

Along with adding the use of a muzzle brake in HG I would also like to see the IBS go to 10 shots in the HG. This would make all orgs. more consistant. Don
 
Charles E said:
Mondo,

OK. Basically, when the IBS first considered sanctioning 1,000 yard matches, The Original Pennsylvania 1,000 yard Benchrest Club was to be the flagship member within the IBS. Their rules were to be adopted whole cloth. For whatever reason, Pennsylvania decided to remain independent, but the rules were still adopted, as they existed at Pennsylvania at that time -- there was no Light Gun class per se.

As many of the soon-to-be IBS shooters were varmint hunters, the LG class was added by IBS. Pennsylvania followed with a light gun class a little later, but instead of looking at what IBS 1K shooters had done, they looked more at the rules of traditional short-range benchrest. Even later, they made some changes to the HG rules, but these have since been returned to the original. The allowance of a muzzle brake is new for Pennsylvania; it originated in NBRSA to allow a light gun to shoot in the HG class.

We are now all to the point of shooting a common set of rules as pertains to the gun, except for the brake in HG in IBS.

So if you want, IBS was the originator only of the Light Gun class, but even here, we merely followed the original Pennsylvania HG rules except for a weight limit & allowing a brake.

For myself, the only further thing I'd like to see cleared up are the rest rules. As currently specified, a short-range shooter cannot assume his/her rest will be legal at a 1,000 yard IBS match. I'm not sure about Pennsylvania. The rests would be legal in NBRSA. With all our talk about not discouraging new shooters, this could stand some attention. As evidence, we picked up some short range shooters when NBRSA (short range only) decided to start checking that stocks met the stock profile, and a few people got irritated that their $1,000 stocks were found not to conform. Being told their rests weren't IBS (long range) legal turned a few of them back.

So there you have it. Each of the sanctioning bodies has made some "mistakes." But the bulk of our rules, the spirit of them if you will, goes way back to the Pennsylvania organization.
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Outstanding explanation!
Thankyou!
 
Thank God we have finally decided to quit bickering over who was the first, who has the best rules, who has the best course of fire, etc. Now we can all do what we always wanted to do in the first place....................compete against each other!
I find it hard to believe that it has taken so long to settle the differences between us..............while the course of fire may still differ between the different factions, the adoption of a unilateral weight classification, the deletion of the muzzle diameter, and the interest of allowing ALL of us to compete with each other is commendable! Not only does this benefit us as shooters, it also sends a message to those anti-gunners who watch from the sidelines with glee that we CAN in fact agree, and don't waste time fighting amongst ourselves.
Hooray for us.....finally!!!!

Mark Van Beek, aka lngrng.
 
I'll just say one more time that what the PA club did is on a trial basis for one year. There is no telling what will happen after the shooters get a taste of exactly what they asked for. More may like it afterward, and then nobody might like it. We will know in due time.

From what I am told of the IBS vote on brakes, it was voted down as was mentioned above. It would be a shame if they came along and voted it in, while we turn around and vote it back out. That is a possibility, however remote.

As Charles said, there's been mistakes. The good thing is, there's still time to fix em all. Several times each if need be.
 
heavy gun rule change

So once again Pa. took 2 steps forward and1 back with the new changes. Allowing breaks in heavy gun class,when the IBS clubs voted NO! Now the Pa. shooters going to IBS clubs must remove their heavy gun breaks. Back to the three part vote:[1] 38voted for lightguns to be allowed to shoot in heavy gun[2]61 voted either gun with breaks[3] 32 voted no.I view this vote as 38 voted for light guns to be allowed in the heavy gun class , not as heavy guns being allowed. If you add 38+32 no=70 which is greater than 61 yes! One question I have for anyone is this. If a shooter sitting either side of you is shooting a 375 cytec (which is legal )with a break and fires, does the blast effect your bullets flight path as close as the benches are? The blast would throw percussion waves right into your line of fire.I do not think this was thought out to wisely.
 
Don

With all due respect this thread is about 1000 yard shooting.

To your point, there will probably be an agenda item put forward this year addressing that. If one is written I will be happy to forward it to you so you can take it to IBS 600 yard matches to help get the required signatures.

Dave
 
It took 10 years for PA to turn around the Heavy Gun restrictions. Let's hope that it stays that way, now. I hope those 175# monsters from SC show up again.
The Chey-Tacs have not done very well at 1k so I don't think they will become very common on the line. I like to shoot the big boomers but they are not very bag friendly and that is a very big factor as you all know. Great for sniping but wanting when you are shooting a ten shot group.
Opinions vary.
 
Don
You probably remember this thread http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48850

The only reason I can see is the ability to distinguish bullet holes in a small group with 10 shots without a moving backer(and I think adding a moving backer at 600 might be a killer for many ranges). Other than that I think most would rather have the 10 shots in 600 HG, I know I would.
Having said that NBRSA has gotten along ok thus far.

James
 
Sorry Dave

Didn't mean to hijack the thread. Just seemed like a good place to stick my nose in. Having all the Orgs. on the same page is a good thing. Don
 
I'm sure there is going to be alot of agenda items covering the IBS 600yd this summer being signed. Shooter of the year program will be one. another is to have an IBS 600yd committee and so on. Sometimes we forget that the 600yd game is seperate from the 1,000yd game. I don't see IBS HG going to 10 shots because that would mean 40 rounds plus sighters for the match and 80 rounds plus sighters for nationals.
 
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Interesting Discussion

While I do not shoot Long Range, I find this discussion rather enlightning.
How soon down the road do you think it will be before the 1000 yard Heavy Gun is relegated to the backwater of 1000 yard shooting.
From this discussion, I gather that the only difference now in a LG and a HG is the weight.
In Point Blank, we have just about proven that a good 10.5 pound Rifle gives nothing up to a heavier 13.5 pounder, since that is the only difference in LV-Sporter and Heavy Varmint.
I am not trying to be contentious, as I understand long range is not my game. But is the day coming to the norm will be where the man with the single Rifle, (a good shooting LG), can rule the day, much as in 100-200 yard Benchrest, where a good Sporter is the Rifle of choice for 90 percent of the shooters??.......jackie
 
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Jackie,

The 6mm Light guns shoot very well as 17# rifles. But the 30 cal. guns are often the choice when conditions get nasty and they work better if they are heavier. Same thing at 600 yards. There will be a 600 Yard National at Sacramento in a few weeks, watch for the equipment list. They had lots of wind last year so I'll bet that many of the shooters will show up with 30 cal. Heavy guns this year.
Five shots with a rail would really be interesting but there is no place for it at this time.
 
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