Reloading press question.

Ed Hall won the supershoot with preloaded ammo and a falling block action I believe. Bill F. I don't remember but he may have used it also. I never said that proloaded never won the supershoot but how many have their been and how many have won preloaded??? There has been shoots won preloaded, I would never say differently but it's rare and you will generally find that there wasn't a big temp swing.

Hovis
 
For the life of me I can't see the logic in this "how many won with preloaded hmmmm???" stuff!

A proven shooter with HOF points and NOTHING TO GAIN FROM PRELOADING ITSELF decides to start preloading because he's convinced he's found a better way....... he's taking his best game with him....... his equipment is shooting as well as ever, perhaps better..... what does all this have to do with the history of the sport? A new idea comes along and it's all "how many HOF points has this idea garnered??"

It's NEW!!

Jim came up with a way......

I've watched it happen right here on this board with a multitude of things. In the 90's it was FL sizing every reload..... :eek: "That'll NEVER work!!!"

And 18" twist 30's


And the 6BR.... when guys started shooting it and comparing notes it was all about "but how many times has the pipsqueak WON anything??? Everybody knows you need at least a 6-284" And "Stekl's been trying for years" and "YOU JUST WAIT 'TIL THE WIND BLOWS!!!" And "sure, that little round might work where YOU shoot but out here not a chance!"

And the 30BR (this ones a LIDDLE different ;) they hadda' make a whole new class for it to win anything, but it does shoot :) )

And now the 30X47L and 6X47L..... "That little primer will never work in the real world" and "it's a gimmick" and "how many times has it won??" and, and, and...... And OOOPS.....in the latest NBRSA News it took 9/10ths of EVERYTHING in HBR


IMO the relevant question is.... "does Jim still do it?" ...... and if he does, that's enough for me!

al
 
Thanks francis. I thought he had used a falling block, thanks for setting it straight.

Al ... I have to disagree with you here. It is not new....a lot of shooters in the 60's and 70's preloaded. Ed Waston was one who used to preload a lot way back but the competition got to the point where you just couldn't win or place well consistantly by doing so. Jim didn't come up with it, he looked into the theory and tests done by another. Full Length sizing was already quite common place by the mid 90's. Bought my first one from Ed at the 1996 Supershoot, it was a Hammond die (Hammond won the supershoot that year).

At the nationals this year, I was talking to a very good gunsmith about rifles. He has been preaching to me to keep it simple. He used himself as a example. He was doing a lot of winning and shooting his way into the HOF and at one point decided that he need to try some new ideas, he shooting suffered for a few years and has now went back to the basics and is shooting very well again. Probably nobody out there tries more ideas than I do. I shoot a lot of experimental stocks, case designs and other items. After I discovered my loose scope base at the nationals, I did my best shooting and switched to using a 22-.100 short ppc.

There just isn't very many NEW things out there. The 6Br. Heck, Ferris brought up to me back in the mid 90's that he thought a 6br with a 95-105gr bullet was being overlooked and had great potential in both longrange and shortrange BR under the right conditions. Ferris worked quite a few years on heavy weight bullet designs for the 6br and how to make the dies. It's to bad that he didn't get the information in his head down on paper or train someone before it was to late...what a wonderful gentleman. Hope to travel up and see him shortly and have dinner.

In long range....preloading is a different story.

I like how people presented with facts will start the "Just following the crowd" The only crowd I'm interested in following....is the one winning. Is there still room for improvement....yep....but this is a game of consistancy and until something is proven to be consistant, it's not the greatest thing since slide bread.

Hovis
 
Shooters Corner

Joe Maisto said:
For that particular case, I would look at an RCBS JR. I have had one for years along with my Hood press. I use the Hood for PPC. The other for everything else.
The JR. isn't expensive but a sturdy "O" frame device. Call Bob White at "Shooters Corner". He has about everything, good used stuff and reasonable. No need to buy new with his inventory.
Also a great guy to deal with.
Click to expand...

Joe: How do I find Shooters Corner? Do they have a web site? If not, how about a phone number.

Thanks for your help!

Stormin' Norman
 
HovisKM said:
Al ... I have to disagree with you here. It is not new....a lot of shooters in the 60's and 70's preloaded. Ed Waston was one who used to preload a lot way back but the competition got to the point where you just couldn't win or place well consistantly by doing so. Jim didn't come up with it, he looked into the theory and tests done by another.
Click to expand...

No, preloading isn't new but Jim definitely found a better way. His stuff varies by over a grain of powder, on purpose.

And yes, the FL dies were beginning to gain acceptance in the 90's. But there was a ton of resistance too, and comments of "how many people are winning with this?"


This idea specifically is the one I take issue with.......that something "hasn't won" much, when it's still new. At one time the 6PPC hadn't won much. :)

Evidently I'm wrong here, but I felt that an idea was being dismissed out of hand based on poor logic. If Jim has STOPPED preloading because the concept was proven a failure then my assertion is simply flawed, and maybe the idea has no merit.

al
 
Big Shurl said:
Guys I've been doing rimfire benchrest for a few years but I'm brand new to the centerfire benchrest game. I'm about to buy my first reloading press. My question is will this 137.00 press work as well (be as precise if that matters) as the sinclair that cost more than twice the dollars. If they're is a better press out there please let me know. I don't want to buy a press and then realize I should have spent the extra money. Should I get a press that is a combo with an arbor like the Harrel?
Click to expand...

I think I may have been talked out of the Forster by the last few post. What about the hood style combo press? I really took to heart what a poster said a few replies back said about some slop being useful in letting these fine dies do their job better. That's what worries me about a press with such tight tolerances. My gun is a 6.5/284 and I believe I read that the full length sizing dies will not fully cycle on the Forster. Please correct my ignorance. What are the things the Forster can't do and is it a consensus that to be competitive one must load cartridges at the matches? What presses do the really competitive shooters use? Guys I really appreciate your help. My first centerfire match is in two weeks which is why I,m trying to get my press nailed down so I'll have some cartridges to shoot the match. I don't want to buy the wrong press and end up spending twice to correct a wrong purchase. I should tell you guys I'm extremely competitive person with a high desire to win at rimfire matches and plan on bringing the the same passion to the center fire game. Thanks again.
 
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A fellow that I know has two Forster presses. I have used them quite a bit, loading at the range, helping him work up loads for his hunting rifles. To my knowledge there are only two disadvantages to these fine presses. They are heavier than the specialty Benchrest presses, and not designed to be compact for packing and transportation, but this does not negatively impact the accuracy of the ammunition that they are used to load. Other than that, the one objection that I have for their being one's only press, when loading for a 6PPC, is that the very floating features that seem to give them an advantage for loading, work against you when expanding up a .220 Russian case to 6mm. For this operation it is better that the expanding mandrel and case be held in alignment. This is not conjecture, I have expanded case necks using all of my presses and the Forster. The best results came from the Harrell Combo. The way that it is made, and the tight fit of the die threads seem to give the best results for this operation. For everyting else, all of the presses seem to work equally well, leaving the decision as to which one to use a matter of what is most convenient to pack and transport. Since the Combo allows me to leave the arbor press at home, it stays packed in my kit. If I need a longer ram stroke, and/or will be working with a threaded seater, the Harrell's turret generally gets the nod. If I remember correctly, a picture of Tony Boyer's range loading setup revealed that he was using an old RCBS Jr. press. Nothing trick about that, but you can be sure he would not put himself at a disadvantage in his selection of any of his equipment.
 
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Big Shurl said:
I think I may have been talked out of the Forster by the last few post. What about the hood style combo press? I really took to heart what a poster said a few replies back said about some slop being useful in letting these fine dies do their job better. That's what worries me about a press with such tight tolerances. My gun is a 6.5/284 and I believe I read that the full length sizing dies will not fully cycle on the Forster. Please correct my ignorance. What are the things the Forster can't do and is it a consensus that to be competitive one must load cartridges at the matches? What presses do the really competitive shooters use? Guys I really appreciate your help. My first centerfire match is in two weeks which is why I,m trying to get my press nailed down so I'll have some cartridges to shoot the match. I don't want to buy the wrong press and end up spending twice to correct a wrong purchase. I should tell you guys I'm extremely competitive person with a high desire to win at rimfire matches and plan on bringing the the same passion to the center fire game. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I think the original question was "which press (RCBS or Sinclair) will give better results." And my answer is "either" because both are threaded presses.

I believe the Forster will also do you just fine BUT.... think about how you want to seat bullets too.

I actually use a Hood because I prefer seating my bullets with an arbor press.

Or I use a small threaded press for sizing press and a separate arbor press for seating. I'm not saying that an arbor press is better, I just like the hand-style dies for seating. And I have them.

It is my opinion that loading at the match is 'WAYYY the easiest way to progress quickly. IMO loading at home (preloading) requires a deep understanding of your loading parameters.

al
 
OK, it's time to once again say this about the Forester and why after two of these presses I don't have them any more. The darn things make my skin crawl on my right fore arm. Just thinking about priming with a Forester press gives me a most uncomfortable feeling. No I don't prime in competition cases on any reloading press, I just don't see what a Forester has going for it that proven designs have already shown. And sweet Jesus they are a heavy hunk of junk. If you really feel this is a key to success you are sadly mistaken. Learn what conditions do to your groups and you'll win a heck of a lot more than what a lousy reloading press will do for you.
 
Reloading Presses

I use a RCBS Partner press at the Range for sizing and an arbor press for seating. I have a Hood press which I like also. I see allot guys using the small C-presses like the Harrel for sizing. As far as the RCBS Rockchucker very few are seen at a BR Shoot, not that they don't do well but their size and weight is a drawback when a guy is trying to pack all his stuff in a couple boxes.

Presses are a matter of personal choice. The choice of dies and knowing how to set them up is what is really important in loading for precision work.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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Reloading Presses

I use a RCBS Partner press at the Range for sizing and an arbor press for seating. I have a Hood press which I like also. I see allot guys using the small C-presses like the Harrel for sizing. As far as the RCBS Rockchucker very few are seen at a BR Shoot, not that they don't do well but their size and weight is a drawback when a guy is trying to pack all his stuff in a couple boxes.

Presses are more a matter of personal choice. The choice of dies and knowing how to set them up is what is really important in loading for precision work.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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