Rate these barrels

I know

you can send a drawing to Shilen and they'll, for extra money, contour the barrel to your dimensions. I'd highly recommend a drawing to prevent mis-communications.

If a smith has the time, they'll usually do "one off" jobs at an hourly rate. But to expect a smith to do a lot of extras for standard money may not work too well.
 
Barrels

I'd like to add adifferent twist, perhaps. I have a douglas, a pac-nor, and kreigers, the latest being put on a custom gun at Gordy Gritters. The best shooting barrel I've ever owned is a K& P cut by Ken Johnson in Raton NM. I don't know if he's still in the business or not, but look at Hawks Ridge results and you'll see a few. But, as for a different twist. I had a nice conversation years ago with Mr Krieger and he told me two things to be true by my experience: Savage makes the best production barrels, and no two pieces of steel are the same and the best barrel maker can't make bad steel good!!!!!! Problem is you don't know till it just won't shoot, no matter what you do. Have a great 2008, shooters. Be careful who you vote for! V/R Greg
 
Greg Fowl said:
I'd like to add adifferent twist, perhaps. I have a douglas, a pac-nor, and kreigers, the latest being put on a custom gun at Gordy Gritters. The best shooting barrel I've ever owned is a K& P cut by Ken Johnson in Raton NM. I don't know if he's still in the business or not, but look at Hawks Ridge results and you'll see a few. But, as for a different twist. I had a nice conversation years ago with Mr Krieger and he told me two things to be true by my experience: Savage makes the best production barrels, and no two pieces of steel are the same and the best barrel maker can't make bad steel good!!!!!! Problem is you don't know till it just won't shoot, no matter what you do. Have a great 2008, shooters. Be careful who you vote for! V/R Greg
Click to expand...

True ! They cant make bad steel good. However , they can put aside the bad batch of steel for lower grade barrels and use a better batch of steel for the high grade barrels and so it goes on through the whole process.
The notion that an experienced barrel maker can not tell a good barrel from a bad one without shooting it is only partially true.
They know their own process and they can predict the process to follow that will produce good barrels.
As with any process you have failures and units that are OK but not your best work.
When it comes to predicting how well a single barrel will shoot that is selected from the previously selected batch of the best barrels then that is when it is very hard to pick a Hummer from a very good barrel without shooting it in your action.

That is why a barrel maker would give their sponsored top shooter a stack of barrels to try out that have already been identified as a batch of the best.
Just a simple thing like :-- Did the deephole drill exit exactly in the center of the blank ? If not it means that profiling will remove an eccentric ammount of steel from around the bore. After profiling it looks the same as anyother barrel but uneven stresses can lurk in the barrel and dimention changes can happen even after stress relief .
 
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Can you imagine a barrel maker that buys a melt of steel from Crucible steel, calling them up and saying something like the following. "Analyses, I really don't care I'll buy whatever fifty tons you might have on hand today and I don't care about the impurities, so I not going to pay you for a strick analyses".

If the foundry does not give the buyer what he pays for, do you really think the buyer just takes it in the shorts?

Lets get back to the real world for a moment, shall we.
 
Sure you would send back a batch of bad steel if it was not what you ordered
and could not produce a good product.
Although it can be difficult to prove the steel is not exactly what you wanted without specialised help unless it is obvious impurities leaving voids in the finish or noticable unsatisfactory machining properties .
Sometimes you can get caught with a load that is not quite right but still produces a reasonable product .
Sometimes people try to make bigger profits by buying cheap steels from China !
 
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I had a similar experience - -

Lynn said:
Krieger
Hart
Broughton
Spencer
Lawton
Douglas
Lothar Walther
E.R.Shaw
Adams and Bennett
Shilen
Lilja

Shelley I rate Lilja as the worst because when you mark a barrel as 1.750 Straight and the largest point on that barrel is 1.660 and it has a large amount of taper too it something is wrong.When you then call and talk to Dan and you get this.I started out with 1.750 stock not the 1-7/8 like I used to but the hole is straight.You have to wonder what he is thinking about.I asked Dan how was this barrel going to fit in my $400 barrel block and why does it have a barber stripe down its entire length instead of the 320 grit finish I paid for.He replied due to the taper it wouldn't grind right on his centerless grinder.I told him I wanted 1.750 straight and that is what it came marked as.He replied again that the bore was straight.
I asked him why my 1.250 straight cylinder barrel was actually 1.200 even though it came marked 1.250 straight
and atleast he didn't tell me the bore was straight again.
He never offered to replace or fix HIS mistakes at all.
Lynn
Click to expand...

With this maker. He had a way to blame me for every problem the barrel had. The barrel does not shoot competatively and he had an excuse for at all. I haven't bought any more there nor will I.

Not many months ago there was an article in PS about Kreiger barrels. Mr. Kreiger stated that if a barrel didn't shoot, he would replace it. I think there is a lot of mileage in that statement. If we are to pay what we do to buy a new barrel which is suppose to be made to BR standards and after we pay to have it fitted to our rifles and it won't perform, the maker SHOULD replace it with TWO barrels to cover the cost of the fitting.One of the Newish makers did exactly that for a friend of mine recently; it's only fair.

They are the ones claiming to be producing Quality. They are in the business of Quality, why do we allow them to skate out of their poor Quality?
 
Results So far :--
Lilja is poor ,
Krieger is poor
Ed Shilen good ( did the right thing and sent a new barrel ).

Good stuff , Please keep posting your complaints about barrel makers.
 
Hmmm..........................

Gotta go into bat for Dan and Mr Krieger. Although I must admit the previous post also made me chortle.

I have the privilege of owning a Lilja barreled Turbo that was put together by Butch Hongisto. I am told the rifle may well be 10 years old. When the right ammo is shot through it - that thing shots. I marvel at its ability.

I read an article on 6mmbr that there was this older Gentleman over Sacremento way named Harvey who has been around a while. He prefers Krieger cut rifled barrels.

Now, I know I am a naive newcomer but somedays maybe poor and some good.

If I was a barrelmaker I'd work my darndest to make the best barrels and not poor ones.

:)
 
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Spott3R, Yes Stu prefers cut rifled barrels but you should check your information out for the most part Stu has not been really using Kriegers for about the last year or so now.

Frank @ Bartlein Barrels
 
Thanks for your input, but we know that people like Butch Hongisto and other professionals can get good barrels .
Its the ordinary shooter that is sometimes getting bad service and poor quality not the pros.
Do we hear a single complaint about a bad barrel sold to any professional gunsmith. No ! because they get better treatment .
Not trying to pick on gunsmiths they are just doing the best for their business and customers.
This thread is about why some barrel makers treat the average shooter badly , discriminate.
 
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Does not matter how well it might shoot if it is not what you ordered and cant use it . This whole sport is based on precision fit of just about everything.
 
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Can I put my 2 cents in here?? I'll not say how many barrels maker I have had barrels from . But I stick with The three that I'v had the best luck with and all three I'm very happy with . Shilen, Broughton(North), and, Hart . Not in any order.
Art
 
Here is a True Story

Back when I first started shooting Benchrest, I was lucky to score a couple of decent barrels. They did not foul, and allowed me to hit the ground running.
I asked the Gunsmith who was doing my work, (before I did my own), to order me a new spare, from the same manufacturer, (a very well known one) and chamber it up. He did. The barrel fouled badly, and just would not shoot. Since I was still fairly new to the game, I had another very well known 'smith look at it.
He informed me that the barrel was a piece of crap, and probably would remain that way. he showed me on a video borescope where the problem was. I contacted the manufacturer, and told him the problems I was having, and he informed me that there was probably nothing wrong with the barrel, and I probably just needed to put a few more rounds through it.
I did. And it never got any better. I called the manufacturer back, and said I wanted to send the barrel to him so he could take a look. He told me to not waste my time, and he was confident that there was nothing wrong with the barrel.
I just said "OK", and decided that I would just never buy another barrel from that company.
Gosh knows how many barrels I have purchaced since then. But never from them. I do hope that the money that they saved by not wasting time on me has made up for the lost sales that they might have recieved over the years.
Of course, back then, I was just a struggling new comer, trying to make two bullets touch. Now that I am a seasoned veteran, (still trying to make two bullets touch), maybe I would garner a little more respect.
But that company will never get that chance..........jackie
 
Lynn and J Valentine

Sounds like you guys have a big bone to chew.

They sound like genuine beefs.

Why would Lilja or Krieger produce bad products and offer less service?

:confused:
 
J. Valentine said:
Results So far :--
Lilja is poor ,
Krieger is poor
Ed Shilen good ( did the right thing and sent a new barrel ).

Good stuff , Please keep posting your complaints about barrel makers.
Click to expand...

Lilja barrels have helped me win many yardages, Grand Aggs., a couple of State Championships and a National Championship (2003 IBS Score Nationals). How could I have been so stupid as to use a barrel maker whose products are..... "poor"?

'Ya gotta wonder.....
 
Have any of you found that a barrel (Hart or Lilja or Kreiger) from Midway or Brownelles is of less quality that if you got it from the manufacturer?

Thanks
 
Al being a custom bullet maker I have great respect for you , but you are missing the point completely.
You are well know and an accomplished competition shooter and you would have no trouble getting a good product!
You would have used a well know and respected gunsmith to get your first barrels . He would have no trouble getting a good barrel or its replacement.

Its the UNKNOWN SHOOTER , THE ORDINARY GUY ON THE STREET that is getting it in the neck from some barrel makers worldwide .

Its not a difficult concept to understand.
If you went to a top hotel in New York would get the same service as Bill Gates ? I think not.
Its the same for buying a barrel , if they have never heard of you and think you are a mug they palm off the second quality crap.

However Lilja came undone when he misstook Lynn for a nobody.
NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THEY CANT MAKE A GOOD BARREL!
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT SOME MAKERS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ORDINARY FOLKS AND SELL THEM LESSER QUALITY THAN THEY HAVE PAYED FOR . IT HAPPENS IN MANY INDUSTRIES.

I dont think you have read all the posts from the start my previous post is an overal comment on service , attitude , warranty , product quality supplied . Nobody intentionaly wants to say a bad word about our industry but if you read them all you will see I am not the only one.
Even Jackie Schmidt admits he has been caught with a dud barrel " WHEN HE WAS JUST STARTING OUT "
Lets stop treating our barrel makers like they are gods ! because thats what helped this situation to happen . When there is injustice to gun owners we should talk about it or this forum could become a waste of time.
 
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J. Valentine said:
NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THEY CANT MAKE A GOOD BARREL!
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT SOME MAKERS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ORDINARY FOLKS AND SELL THEM LESSER QUALITY THAN THEY HAVE PAYED FOR . IT HAPPENS IN MANY INDUSTRIES.
Click to expand...

You guys are going to have to forgive me here but what has been quoted is what scares me about having to order barrels from the makers in the US.

You know all the red tape we have to go thru to get a barrel up to Canada? Thank God at least our dollar is worth something right now.

If we get one, two or ten sent up and a few are crap, it is a royal pain in the KEESTER to resolve. We are a small market up here and I am really skeptical sometimes of what the quality may be. I would like to think that since we are a small group of people who are actually interested in Benchrest that we could be treated as equals. That skepticism unfortunately will never leave me.

Just my opinion.

Calvin
 
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