Rate these barrels

Barrel Bash....

ShelleyDavidson said:
part of the reason is that they've been in business for many years but the fact remains the more BR records have been broken by Shilen Barrels than any other brand. They keep track of that kind of stuff down at the Shilen factory.

I like other brands of barrels also, I'm just saying that bashing Shilen is unfair when they have held more records than any other barrel company. Repeating rumors about any upstanding company is unfair. Heck, I'm kinda down on rumor mongering anyway, I put it in the same category as soap operas.

No matter what brand you choose it really sucks if you bad mouth a barrel company if they don't produce 100% hummers for you. It just doesn't happen!!!
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Yes,
Agree completely Shelley.
The previous post about Hart is a tad unfair.... Might have gotten something
"amiss" with that particular barrel but I don't believe that the Sutton family wouldn't have helped out.... Bill would bend over backwards to ensure that a customer gets what he/she paid for.
The "High-end" barrel market is VERY competitive!
These makers must strive to make every barrel the best they can! Their reputation is on the line with every tube made...


Shelley, look forward to 08 Denton shoots!
Happy New Year all!
cale
 
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Thought I'd say out

but Hart barrels are SUPER and they are great people to deal with.

I shoot Hart, Krieger and Shilen.
 
I have to agree with john. the reason these 3 have been in business for so long is they have maintained quality that long.
 
Gee, it is going to be a long winter.

As long as we're listing, I have used (in alphabetical order), Broughton (North), Hart, Kreiger, Lilja, Pac-Nor, and Shilen. I have a Lawton on the shelf I'll use this winter, & I expect it will shoot as good as the others.

Why? I procrastinate. Then I get in a hurry to finish a project & it is time for "who's got a barrel?" They have all been good, occasionally very good, and the only thing I think I know is that the difference in accuracy is the same within a brand as it is across brands.
 
good point !

Riflemeister said:
Most replies so far have dealt only with the stainless BR quality barrels. The chrome moly are another thing entirely. Where the stainless nearly all come with a .0001" dimensional guarantee, chrome moly is different. The Kieger is the only one that comes with a .0001" dimensional guarantee in chrome moly. Additionally, it is my belief that on the lighter hunting profiles, the cut rifling will result in less stress in the blank than the button process. My experience has been that hunting rifles barrelled with chrome moly Kriegers have an uncanny ability to place the first shot out of a cold, clean barrel right in the same small group as the rest of the shots. I really do like that, as I don't have to hunt with a fouled bore like I've had to do with some other barrels. They ain't cheap, but if I can get the customer to spring for the cost, I do the job with the knowledge I'll have a happy customer.
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Riflemeister: do you think there is any accurcey difference between the two metals if thay are both of high quiltysteel Stainless is used in most bench guns do you think stainless will last longer thanks jerry
 
JDR,
The big difference I have noted between chrome moly and stainless is the affinity for copper fouling exhibited by chrome moly. As far as accuracy goes, the only direct comparison I have is two of my 280 AI's. One is a Kreiger chrome moly 9" twist, and the other is a Lilja stainless 10" twist. The chrome moly shades the stainless by maybe 1/16" in accuracy, both shooting the 140 gr Nosler Partition. Does that prove that chrome moly shoots better than stainless? I think the difference is so slight that it could be that I really hit on the right combo for one and the other I'm trying to shoot a less than optimum bullet or powder. We're talking about 3 shot groups in the 5/8" range for both rifles, so I use one when the weather is nice and the other when the weather turns bad.

My general rule is that I use stainless for competition and varmint rifles and chrome moly for hunting rifles, so it would be too easy to just say that stainless is more accurate than chrome moly, simply based on the weight of the barrels and the cartridges they're chambered for. My big consideration for varmint and competition guns is ease of cleaning to go with the accuracy. On hunting rifles, the toughness of chrome moly combine with its greater strength at very low temperatures gives it the nod. On the average hunting trip, if everything goes according to plan, I only fire one or two shots so metal fouling is not an issue.

Overall, I doubt that there is any significant accuracy advantage to equally well made stainless or chrome moly barrels. That said, you'll never find a chrome moly barrel on one of my competition or varmint rifles, but you may find a stainless on one or two of my hunting rifles. I do use a bake on matte black finish for stainless hunting barrels to get rid of that white stick in the woods look.
 
Of course the real reason stainless is used for most match barrels is, it machines so much more easily than chromoly. It is just plain easier to produce a match grade stainless barrel. 4140, though a great material in many respects, just does not finish as nicely as 416 stainless.
I like cut rifled barrels as well but I have to say, it's pretty hard to ctriticize the best buttoned barrels.
The nicest finished barrels and the straightest barrels I have used have been hammer forged barrels from Swiss Arms. Not easy to come by though and appearance aside, don't shoot any better than any others.
I figure all the top few makers make quality barrels to the point that availability determines my barrel choice. Regards, Bill.
 
I'm sorry if anyone took what I said for "bashing" Shilen. I only posted what I did as I knew that many top shooter use Shilen and they make some fantastic barrels. I just wanted to point out that there are some lemons out there as well. I sent the barrel back to Shilen and they told me there was nothing wrong with it. Then another barrel showed up in the mail. I called them and asked why they sent me a new barrel. He told me he didn't want any mad customers. I explained that I wasn't mad and if there was nothing wrong with my old barrel, why on earth would I want to replace it with the same exact brand of barrel that may or may not do any better? He said I had a point. I asked him if he wanted his barrel back. He told me no! I gave it away and it turned out to be a real good barrel for this guy.

As for Hart- well I have never dealt with a more arrogant bunch than that; basically, if there is a problem with one of their barrels- then it's the gunsmith's fault! You would think they are all angels reincarnated! I switched to Krieger and have been more than happy.

I feel that for a lightweight sporter barrel, it is easier to get a good cut rifled barrel than a button rifled tube. In BR contours, I feel like this is not an issue.

YMMV
 
While I don't have a lot of experience - -

It has been my observation that much of the quality outcome of a barrel depends on the steel lot it came out of. No matter how close the tollerances of the machining, if the lot of steel is poor, the resultant barrel is likely to be not so good.

I just replaced a Kreiger that had two seasons on it. It coppered from shot one to the last one I shot through it. It, however, shot well enought that I shot it for two seasons. Looking at it with a borescope it looked like a Moonscape inside. This condition was not the fault of Kreiger but the steel it is made of.

A problem for people who depend on gunsmiths to fit barrels is the cost of that function in the event of a bad barrel. Simply replacing the barrel still leaves the person who bought it out quite a lot of money. Perhaps replacing a bad one with two might be a more fair way to proceed for barrel makers. I don't think they replace that many and the cost to them to make a barrel can't be more than 50% of their retail, I wouldn't think.

I would agree that we are indeed fortunate to have so many great barrels to choose from. The two best barrels I have owned to date are 1. A Shilen that coppered the entire time I owned it "BAD COPPERED" and 2. A Pac Nor that never copperd after shot 3. Both of them were superb; I sold both on the rifles they were fitted to simply because I wanted to change Port location on the rifle. Dumb thing to do. :eek:
 
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Pete I agree with you on the Pac-nor, I have a 3 groove one at the minute on a varmint rifle and it is the easiet barrel to clean by far, cooper fouling is non exsistant and carbon is gone after 4 patches, run in was a breeze and, it is superbly accurate, the most accurate rifle I own by a fair margin.
 
Ok

We all know how a so called hummer performs. But, what constitutes a "bad barrel"? I suspect that bad means something different to different people.

Do you consider anything except a hummer a bad barrel? Or does it take some mechanical defect to qualify a barrel as "bad"? If you have a barrel that'll agg in the .1s but coppers, is it bad and would Pete require two replacements to mollify him? If a barrel has a squirmy bore but shoots well, is it bad? If a barrel is mechanically perfect but will only agg in the .240s", is it a bad barrel?

I think this may be like the politician who said " I may not be able to define pornography but I know it when I see it."

Shelley
 
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ShelleyDavidson said:
We all know how a so called hummer performs. But, what constitutes a "bad barrel"? I suspect that bad means something different to different people.

Do you consider anything except a hummer a bad barrel? Or does it take some mechanical defect to qualify a barrel as "bad"? If you have a barrel that'll agg in the .1s but coppers, is it bad and would Pete require two replacements to mollify him? If a barrel has a squirmy bore but shoots well, is it bad? If a barrel is mechanically perfect but will only agg in the .240s", is it a bad barrel?

I think this may be like the politician who said " I may not be able to define pornography but I know it when I see it."

Shelley
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Shelley,

I saw your "Tinker Toy" with a 17 twist .308 Shilen.

Very Innovative. That's obviously a good barrel. Is there anything you'd do differently there?

Ben
 
I think some barrels are better than others- that doesn't mean the other is "bad", there are, however, "bad" barrels out there. They either foul so bad they can't function well or they plain won't shoot worth a hoot. I have had a couple of those. One was a Hart! One was a Ruger!! In both cases, replacements made all the difference in the world.

I have had a couple of barrels that I wish I had never worn out.
 
There is some very good points in these threads but one thing is not covered.
If I ordered a barrel in my name I would get a different barrel than if I got
for example , Toney Boyer to order it for me.
Lynn the service you have recieved is a disgrace. Can he only drill and ream a straight hole ?? nothing else??
This thread does however give me confidense in continuing to move forward on making my own barrels one day.
I could do a better job of machining than that right now.
Really glad I read this post as a mate of mine is about to order two Rimfire barrels from Lilja.
 
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I think the customers complaints speak for themselves.
 
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Question:

Can you send a drawing to a barrel manufacturer and they build you a barrel to the dimensions and tolerances, listed on the drawing?

Is this typically done? Or do you just tell someone on the phone, that it needs to be 1.750 od and xx inches long/claiber/twist/material?

In my profession, when I send a drawing to a machine shop, I specify dimensions, tolerances (distance, diameter and concentricity), flatness (if applicable), material, hardness etc. etc. depending on application.

Do Gunsmiths do the same?
 
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