OnTarget Target Data System

sgeorge said:
Agree with the TDS assessment, a great tool for the intended application. Those X counts are a bit tough to handle.
Click to expand...

As the creator of TDS I've been following this thread with interest. When I saw a couple comments about the X count being incorrect I figured I could help out. As mentioned in a couple earlier posts TDS is intended to gather data that would be difficult and/or time consuming to do manually and present the data in a usable format. The simulated scoring is intended to give the user an idea of how the would have scored in competition and to suggest sight adjustments to maximize their score.

The calculations for scoring an 'X' are different for the 25 and 50 meter targets. Currently TDS displays the 25 meter target score in the Virtual Group dialog. The 50 meter score is only displayed when the data is printed. It's really a matter of screen space, there's not enough room for both scores in the dialog. I can switch to the 50 meter score in a future version of TDS if that would be preferable.

Here's the code that calculates whether or not the shot is an 'X'. The variable "dSize" is the calculated distance from the center of the bullet hole to the center of the bull. This code only checks for the 'X', the next few lines check for a "10" without the 'X'.

25 meter calculation:

if( dSize < 0.033 ) // .112" - .079" (dot size), obliterated dot
{
nScore = 10;
bBull = TRUE;
}
...

50 meter calculation:

if( dSize < 0.127 ) // .112" + .0.15" (dot size), touching dot
{
nScore = 10;
bBull = TRUE;
}
...

The scoring calculations for the WRABF, and other targets, may not be perfect. That's why I specify that it's "for informational purposes only and may not reflect the official target score".

If you have any questions about TDS or the other OnTarget programs send an email to: ontargetsoftware@msn.com

- Jeff
 
I like the software. I tried target 36 and automatically scanning......but my scanner kept running forever.

When manually entering my own targets......I noticed the PSL X count is always correct, and the WRABF score is correct. That is what led me to originally believe that the 10 ring was bigger on the WRABF......since the x counts are way low.

I was excited to see the feature that helps with scope adjustment.......but so far I have never been off by more than .008". I guess I'm better at scope adjustment than I thought.;)

Mike
 
Jeff
I work in an industry where we do a lot of machine vision operations. This sounds really similar. We use mainly Matrox and Cognex systems, but these have inputs directly from a camera. I would guess inputting from a scanner would be similar.
 
Jeff,

Thank you for joining the conversation. Between Landy and yourself, you guys are the experts.

Based on that line of code, the X is counted when dSize is <.033?
 
michaelthomas said:
I believe that is the trouble as well.......I think it should be .0725".

Mike
Click to expand...

Mike is correct. The calculation for the X should be .0725". That's one of the problems with being the only developer. Sometimes I can overlook an obvious error time and time again.

I didn't have a release planned anytime soon but if this is a really big deal I can rebuild the program and make up an installation package.

Jeff
 
Vibe said:
Jeff
I work in an industry where we do a lot of machine vision operations. This sounds really similar. We use mainly Matrox and Cognex systems, but these have inputs directly from a camera. I would guess inputting from a scanner would be similar.
Click to expand...

It's very similar. Cameras and scanners are both image acquisition devices. But, things move a lot faster in machine vision applications than in TDS.

Jeff
 
Jeff59 said:
Mike is correct. The calculation for the X should be .0725". That's one of the problems with being the only developer. Sometimes I can overlook an obvious error time and time again.

I didn't have a release planned anytime soon but if this is a really big deal I can rebuild the program and make up an installation package.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Excellent, a thread on a forum that’s accomplished something positive without any bickering. There’s hope for us all yet.

Now, about the Middle East problem………..:D

Stephen, thanks I’ve now printed off the 25 target card (which I hadn’t done previously), all is good.

Brian
 
Brian_K said:
Excellent, a thread on a forum that’s accomplished something positive without any bickering. There’s hope for us all yet.

Brian
Click to expand...
Brian,

You're undoubtedly suffering from two related critical illnesses....wishful thinking and false hope. LOL

Landy
 
Any one with a iphone or ipad should check out the app TargetScan I've been messing with it for a little while and have had pretty good results. Its not something I would use to score matches, the X count is generous. The drawback is it will only read the black bull NRA style targets. I have talked to the developer and they are working on adding the wrabf targets but no ETA yet. Its only $6 from the app store and is great for trending and testing pellets, velocities, ect.. Here is a demo vid http://youtu.be/DBD3mDojs2c I use the NRA 10m targets, the composites at the end is what sold me. The Orion system is impressive but $$$$, I will have to check out OnTarget. Wasn't there also a Russian guy that was developing a scoring program?

Shawn
 
Guys,

I've corrected the calculation for the 'X' on the WRABF target. The code change was easy but it took some time for me to sort out all the other changes I've made in the past 8 months.

The most notable is the addition of the Shot Info tab in with the Target Info and Group Info tabs. The Shot Info tab shows the distance and offsets from the aim point and calculated group center for the selected shot. It also includes a field for the shot velocity. The velocity is saved in the .tgx file and is exported with other data to the .csv file through Tools/Export Point Data. The Ammo and Notes fields are not implemented so have been disabled.

Version 3.79 isn't released on the TDS website but you can download the installation package using this direct link: http://www.ontargetshooting.com/tds/TargetTDSSetup379.zip

Test the correction to the 'X' calculation and take a look at the Shot Info view. Let me know if you run into any problems with the program. You can email me directly at: ontargetsoftware@msn.com

- Jeff
 
Jeff,

Seems to have corrected the X count issue. This target gave 10X and there were 10 shots at .072 or less. Thank you.
 

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Loaded the free trail and printed some targets.

I don't have a color printer so had some white and yellow card stock. Went to the 25 yard indoor range and shot one card of both colors in .22 and .177.
Couldn't get any of the four test targets to load without errors. Went to a printer and printed 10 targets with the blue bulls on 110 white card stock. $1.00 a copy!!!
Shot only one target in .177 at the range. Took it home and it scanned in fine. No errors.

Does anyone print targets from a black and white printer and have them scan OK? Not worth paying $1.00 a copy for an 8 1/2 X11 target and using in a shoot. When 12X18 in black and white on card stock is only $0.14 a copy.

Any tricks to get the black and white targets to scan better?


Thanks,

Paul
 
$1.00 per target is a bit steep.

Try scanning at 600 DPI rather than 300 DPI and hit the brightness icon before you have the software locate the bulls.
 
ModelA said:
I don't have a color printer so had some white and yellow card stock. Went to the 25 yard indoor range and shot one card of both colors in .22 and .177.
Couldn't get any of the four test targets to load without errors. Went to a printer and printed 10 targets with the blue bulls on 110 white card stock. $1.00 a copy!!!
Shot only one target in .177 at the range. Took it home and it scanned in fine. No errors.

Does anyone print targets from a black and white printer and have them scan OK? Not worth paying $1.00 a copy for an 8 1/2 X11 target and using in a shoot. When 12X18 in black and white on card stock is only $0.14 a copy.

Any tricks to get the black and white targets to scan better?


Thanks,

Paul
Click to expand...


Hi Paul,

I went through this with Jeff at On Target. I’m afraid only blue on a white background works with any consistent accuracy.

One other problem I found is if you scan the same target across several scanners you will get an inconsistency. I got a maximum of 0.005” variance across three different scanners.

I think blue on white, 180gr paper and stick with the same scanner you should be OK.

Brian
 
Thanks will try 600 DPI

sgeorge said:
$1.00 per target is a bit steep.

Try scanning at 600 DPI rather than 300 DPI and hit the brightness icon before you have the software locate the bulls.
Click to expand...

The $1.00 was by a color printer. Will try to have some color copies made as the copies are cheaper.

Thanks for your input.

Paul
 
Brian_K said:
Hi Paul,

I went through this with Jeff at On Target. I’m afraid only blue on a white background works with any consistent accuracy.

One other problem I found is if you scan the same target across several scanners you will get an inconsistency. I got a maximum of 0.005” variance across three different scanners.

I think blue on white, 180gr paper and stick with the same scanner you should be OK.

Brian
Click to expand...
Brian,
Thanks for your input will try color copies and see how they scan.

Paul
 
ModelA said:
Brian,
Thanks for your input will try color copies and see how they scan.

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul,

I tried red, yellow and a few other colours at different brightness levels, only thing that worked was blue, scanned at 300dpi with the brightness level set at 110.

If you have any other problems, putting a black sheet of paper at the back of the target helps.

Good piece of software for pellet/ammo testing.

Brian
 
Thanks Jeff

For those with only a black/white printer, there is hope. On Target has targets that are black/white and being tested, targets 50, 51 and 52. These targets do not have the normal rings of other targets but can be scored based on distance from center of crosshairs. Ask for version 3.80 if you would like to participate in the testing before general release.
 
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