On Electric Cars:

Greg

It was been over a day since alinwa posted and I am still grinning. I couldn't even read it to my wife without lol. It took me three times before I could get it out. Sorry, Greg
 
glp said:
stick it where the sun don't shine...sheesh dude. I like my pine trees, so do the deer when they winter in the yards, they sequester huge amounts of carbon each year, are beautiful to look at, relaxing to walk through...all in all I like them better than some people...no one specific in mind.

Did you forget some meds this morning or are you normally so high strung and unable to understand a fellow man's opinion, or express your personal views about it in a civilized way?
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Naahhhh, I'm generally only able to come on this forum when I'm wound down. WAYYY down......... Only when I'm really chill do I dare. Even then, in my calm and serious mode I give Wilbur a liddle hotsies so I try not to talk much nowadays. I'm a free speech kinda' guy. I loved the old forum back in the day when people actually said what they felt and the snowflakes were given little shrift. I'm always borderline getting kicked off the forum now......

My definition of "civilized way" is severiously anachronistic, I'm STILL convinced our Founding Fathers were genii, that they actually had something worthwhile going. And I'm on-my-knees thankful every day because for a few short decades reason actually held sway. And I live like a king because of it....WE, this country, advanced human-kind at an unprecedented pace there for a while, and still could. I'm passionately THANKFUL for this, and hate to see it slipping away.


It's hard for me to keep still when someone touts things contrary to reason, but I try.
 
alinwa said:
My definition of "civilized way" is severiously anachronistic, I'm STILL convinced our Founding Fathers were genii, that they actually had something worthwhile going. And I'm on-my-knees thankful every day because for a few short decades reason actually held sway. And I live like a king because of it....WE, this country, advanced human-kind at an unprecedented pace there for a while, and still could. I'm passionately THANKFUL for this, and hate to see it slipping away.


It's hard for me to keep still when someone touts things contrary to reason, but I try.
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I don't think pine trees sequestering carbon have anything to do with our individual freedoms slipping away.

Contrary to who's reasoning? Nuff said.
 
Randy

Randy Jarvais said:
It was been over a day since alinwa posted and I am still grinning. I couldn't even read it to my wife without lol. It took me three times before I could get it out. Sorry, Greg
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glad you found some humor in it! It has made my last two days...got my blood flowing on a cold and dreary winter day. Love it.
 
Pete Wass said:
but people who think they are getting away from using carbon are sadly mistaken. No free lunch yet, in that regard. No perpetual motion that produces well, that I have ever seen.

pete
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They should look at what the Earth looks like where they take the lithium out of the ground that is used to make the batteries to power the electric car. Nothing environmental about an open pit lithium mine.
 
Mike Bryant said:
They should look at what the Earth looks like where they take the lithium out of the ground that is used to make the batteries to power the electric car. Nothing environmental about an open pit lithium mine.
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True.

Regardless of how a vehicle is powered, it takes a certain amount of power to move a certain size object a certain distance in a certain amount of time.

The Electric Grid is taxed now. When more and more electric cars come on line, the Utility Companies will have to expand even more, burning more fuel to make the electricity.

My younger brother has been driving a electric car for some years. He started out with a "Leaf", and has progressed up to this. He likes it.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20685&stc=1&d=1518644448

He also has a ZO-6 Vette.
 

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glp said:
I don't think pine trees sequestering carbon have anything to do with our individual freedoms slipping away.

Contrary to who's reasoning? Nuff said.
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I know you don't, "cause and effect" is obviously a foreign concept....and BTW "reason" and "logic" aren't negotiable like opinions. The term "who's reasoning" (followed by "nuff said" LOL) tells us that in your opinion rationality and reason are fluid concepts. That's like saying "well in my world, 2X2 sometimes equals 5, so there!" I'm sorry to tell you, that's neither credible nor rational.

That said, I'm sure it'll make you happy to know that each of those pine trees "sequesters" the equivalent of about 1 quart of gasoline in it's lifetime. Use that tidbit as you like.

Or disprove it with facts :)
 
alinwa said:
I know you don't, "cause and effect" is obviously a foreign concept....and BTW "reason" and "logic" aren't negotiable like opinions. The term "who's reasoning" (followed by "nuff said" LOL) tells us that in your opinion rationality and reason are fluid concepts. That's like saying "well in my world, 2X2 sometimes equals 5, so there!" I'm sorry to tell you, that's neither credible nor rational.

That said, I'm sure it'll make you happy to know that each of those pine trees "sequesters" the equivalent of about 1 quart of gasoline in it's lifetime. Use that tidbit as you like.

Or disprove it with facts :)
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The facts:

Burning 1 gallon of gasoline emits approximately 22.4 pounds of CO2. Carbon's molecular weight is 12 and oxygen's molecular weight is 16 for a total molecular weight of 44 for CO2. Therefore every pound of CO2 has 0.273 pounds of carbon. The carbon content of the CO2 emitted from burning 1 gallon of gasoline is 6.1 pounds.

Wood is approximately 50% carbon. 1 pound of wood sequesters approx. 1/2 pound of carbon, so we need approx.12 pounds of wood to sequester the carbon emitted from burning 1 gallon of gasoline.

Your claim was that over the lifetime of the pine 1 quart of gasoline would be sequestered, which would mean that for your claim to be true the "lifetime" of the pine would be over when it reached 3 pounds.

A 50-foot pine tree with a 12” diameter has a weight of more than 2000 pounds. Over its lifetime that pine tree would sequester the carbon emissions from more than 166 gallons of gasoline.
 
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well

thanks Lawrence.

and that's just ONE tree. Two mature trees produce enough O2 for one person for one year.
 
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Don't understand this concept at all. If your pine trees are not close to something emitting carbon how does it make any difference?
 
Trees

sdean said:
Don't understand this concept at all. If your pine trees are not close to something emitting carbon how does it make any difference?
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use air like we do. Air gets moved around by the heating of the sun and cooling...wind. Its there for a tree like it is for us. The tree uses CO2 in photosynthesis to produce the cellulose it needs to grow, sugars to sustain itself(food) and gives us back O2. Pretty neat arrangement and we all should be thankful for their presence.

We have a nice stand of white pine and hardwoods on our land. Sure, I could use the money that would be generated by cutting them down, but I don't need it bad enough to turn my land into more field. I like the aesthetics of having them there(they are big suckers!), walking through them, they provide decent deer wintering site and they give us O2...what's not to like about trees, recognizing their part in the ecosystem and letting them be to do their thing?

Only a fool would pee into the wind.
 
How big is big? Based on the following: 1st 16 feet are clear of knots and the small end of the 16' section is still diameter 36" (not counting the bark layers), there are 945 board feet of lumber by International Log Rule. The last I knew, Select pine was going for $500/1000 board feet. That is in the first 16'. If a well cared for White Pine has a 36" diameter at a basil height of 16', then there is likely another 1000 feet of lumber that is either number 1 or #2. #1 is worth about $380/1000 and if memory serves, #2 is $320/1000 based on 16' lengths. If the tree is as large as I described, each tree is worth roughly $800 -$900 not counting the top section going pallet lumber or for pulp. If there are 10 per acre and you have 30 acres, that is 300 trees and in dollars, that is $240,000-$270,000. Nice little nest egg if they have been taken care of by limbing up to 20'. Keep in mind that the quality of the wood can go the other way because of nature, insects and fungi if you wait too long. Have a glass of wine on me!
 
glp said:
use air like we do. Air gets moved around by the heating of the sun and cooling...wind. Its there for a tree like it is for us. The tree uses CO2 in photosynthesis to produce the cellulose it needs to grow, sugars to sustain itself(food) and gives us back O2.



It is still a big concept. You have say 100 feet of tree height in 100,000 feet of air. The way I figure you need 50 years of 0 emissions to get back to where you were 50 years ago. Ain't gonna happen. Besides the way things are going in this world, the next flood or plague or whatever ends this world won't be from natural causes. Probably God will have sent it!
P.S. I like trees.
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So,

sdean said:
glp said:
use air like we do. Air gets moved around by the heating of the sun and cooling...wind. Its there for a tree like it is for us. The tree uses CO2 in photosynthesis to produce the cellulose it needs to grow, sugars to sustain itself(food) and gives us back O2.



It is still a big concept. You have say 100 feet of tree height in 100,000 feet of air. The way I figure you need 50 years of 0 emissions to get back to where you were 50 years ago. Ain't gonna happen. Besides the way things are going in this world, the next flood or plague or whatever ends this world won't be from natural causes. Probably God will have sent it!
P.S. I like trees.
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your a fatalist and have given up trying? If I see a penny on the ground I pick it up. Its good exercise and 100 of them make a dollar...everything has to start somewhere. Like 'ol Ben Franklin said, "a penny saved is a penny earned." My take, a penny picked up is a penny earned. Little things make a difference. Ripples on the ocean make big waves on shore.
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Some are close

Randy Jarvais said:
How big is big? Based on the following: 1st 16 feet are clear of knots and the small end of the 16' section is still diameter 36" (not counting the bark layers), there are 945 board feet of lumber by International Log Rule. The last I knew, Select pine was going for $500/1000 board feet. That is in the first 16'. If a well cared for White Pine has a 36" diameter at a basil height of 16', then there is likely another 1000 feet of lumber that is either number 1 or #2. #1 is worth about $380/1000 and if memory serves, #2 is $320/1000 based on 16' lengths. If the tree is as large as I described, each tree is worth roughly $800 -$900 not counting the top section going pallet lumber or for pulp. If there are 10 per acre and you have 30 acres, that is 300 trees and in dollars, that is $240,000-$270,000. Nice little nest egg if they have been taken care of by limbing up to 20'. Keep in mind that the quality of the wood can go the other way because of nature, insects and fungi if you wait too long. Have a glass of wine on me!
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but most are smaller. Had it cruised 10 years ago and there was about 60K at prices then. But, like I said, I like looking at them and walking around in them. Besides, the SEQUESTER carbon.
 
your a fatalist and have given up trying? If I see a penny on the ground I pick it up. Its good exercise and 100 of them make a dollar...everything has to start somewhere. Like 'ol Ben Franklin said, "a penny saved is a penny earned." My take, a penny picked up is a penny earned. Little things make a difference. Ripples on the ocean make big waves on shore.[/QUOTE]


Trying what? I am a realist. I make good money and spend good money. Great wife and I am a happy man. We just think differently about things. I just really believe if this planet needs saving by humans then we are screwed.
 
I prefer to say upper middle age Francis. I've logged some of my timber ground of mature mostly oak, walnut, and cottonwood. I made sure no trees we taken close to the river. They'll die a natural death and the roots will hold the bank while smaller trees mature. Logging wasn't near as bad as the wind storm that went through a few years ago.
 
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