Charles, why is it you are content to let this forum be ONLY for match reports? It could be much more, it is much more right now.
OK Buckos!
- Thread starter Wilbur
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Charles, why is it you are content to let this forum be ONLY for match reports? It could be much more, it is much more right now.
Not what I want, what it seems the posters want. I always like gunsmithing & technical discussions. When I tried, I was "politely dismissed." If that's what most people want for the rimfire forum, I'll post any gunsmithing questions I have on the gunsmithing forum, or elsewhere. Harmony is nice.
My, how some people think that just because they ask a question they somehow deserved to be told that what took some great gunsmiths a lot of hard work to learn. You just won't let it drop Charles. You must not realize that most of the regular posters here are shooters - not gunsmiths. Most shooters call up their gunsmith of choice and place an order for what they want. The gunsmith delivers the goods without a detailed description of how the work was performed. One of my best friends is a gunsmith that builds world-class sporters yet I would never dream to ask him how he does it. I do know it took him many years to perfect his methods. If I don't think I deserve to know how he does it - what makes you think you do? Some of the top sporter shooters answered your question with their best advice - hire a great gunsmith rather than try to do it yourself if you want to end up with a great sporter. You preferred to do it yourself. Fine - I wished you luck - knowing that you were not likely to hit the magic formula on your first attempt. That apparently really got your nose out of joint. I guess you expected one of these top gunsmiths to just give you all the details of how to do it. Are you that naive about everything?
Allrighty then, getting back to the point, we've determined that there are some that believe Charles deleted too many posts and is misguided with his examples. As they say on Law and Order - "asked and answered". I'm pretty sure that we all know what this forum is supposed to look like and for the most part it does. Mix in some hidden agenda and it becomes something else - something unsettling, if you will.
When I put my finger on it, and figure out a good way to explain it, I'll try to help fix it.
When I put my finger on it, and figure out a good way to explain it, I'll try to help fix it.
Hi Wilbur,
It could be no more than the innocent collision of two totally different ways of thinking. Neither can understand the other, one an experimenter who searches to advance the sport, shares everything he knows and encourages all to join in, the other a pure competitor that spends his time honing his skills and carefully puts his hard earned pieces of knowledge together in an effort to win. Two different ways to enjoy this game with two different goals. I don't speak of the trolls that have no purpose to their boring life.
Charlie Hood
It could be no more than the innocent collision of two totally different ways of thinking. Neither can understand the other, one an experimenter who searches to advance the sport, shares everything he knows and encourages all to join in, the other a pure competitor that spends his time honing his skills and carefully puts his hard earned pieces of knowledge together in an effort to win. Two different ways to enjoy this game with two different goals. I don't speak of the trolls that have no purpose to their boring life.
Charlie Hood
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I'm in Charles's camp on this issue a little. I think he comes at this with a little different perspective on the CF side where a lot more shooters do their own gunsmithing and there is a lot more sharing of information even with the professional gunsmiths. I also do my own work on both RF and CF but I'm not a professional, don't want to be, or intend to do work for anyone other than myself and an occasional friend. I get a lot of satisfaction building a highly accurate rifle myself and I'm sure Charles does too. I wouldn't consider hiring a professional to do my work nor do I intend to compete with them.
There is no magic to building a winning RF or CF rifle, no black art, voodoo, or anything other than good components and careful machine work. I've never had a professional smith refuse to answer questions I asked and most will share info in my experience. There is more magic in a barrel maker getting an exceptional lot of steel than there is in any other step of the process IMO. It seems to me that the reason it's hard to get technical info on this forum is that the majority of the posters here have no technical info to share as most depend on a professional smith so they have no need to know the tech stuff. I rarely see post from any of the professionals and I wish they would join in but they probably are to backed up with work to spend time on internet forums.
Dave Burton
D
DonMatzeder
Guest
Many of he best rf smiths used to post more but they were told that they didn't know what they were talking about by the CF shooters and rookies. The fact is that no one knows what makes a great rf rifle. It requires good components and near perfect machining but only a few come out great.
I wish it were that simple Charlie. And I understand too well that first point-blank, then 1,000 yard benchrest, went through an "us versus them" period. The IBS versus NBRSA, the IBS versus The Original Pennsylvania 1000 Yard Benchrest Club. In a way it's too bad that rimfire had to come third, when all of us "other" shooters are just plain tired of the sanctioning body wars. But if RF is to increase their numbers by drawing in CF shooters, it's a reality.
Maybe I don't go back far enough, but I don't remember any gunsmith wars in those squabbles. Can't imagine Seeley Masker saying Clarence Hammonds is no good, or, far as that goes, someone who had Seeley do their work publicly claim that Hammonds made bad stuff. No do I remember a case where someone purposefully mislead someone. Probably my bad memory.
Anyway, the sanctioning body wars have to be kept down to a dull roar for the good of us all, and the product bashing just won't pass. And as long as I'm a moderator, a certain level of civility is just going to have to be maintained. Some of the posts removed were physical threats. In fairness, many of them were later removed by the people who posted them. Still.
Maybe I don't go back far enough, but I don't remember any gunsmith wars in those squabbles. Can't imagine Seeley Masker saying Clarence Hammonds is no good, or, far as that goes, someone who had Seeley do their work publicly claim that Hammonds made bad stuff. No do I remember a case where someone purposefully mislead someone. Probably my bad memory.
Anyway, the sanctioning body wars have to be kept down to a dull roar for the good of us all, and the product bashing just won't pass. And as long as I'm a moderator, a certain level of civility is just going to have to be maintained. Some of the posts removed were physical threats. In fairness, many of them were later removed by the people who posted them. Still.
brian roberts
New member
Haven't read all of these posts...............
or even any of the ones mentioned....
But for me, not being a br shooter, rf or cf, it kinda chaps one a bit when some people practically call
you a nitwit or LIAR for mentioning something you have done or witnessed, or have KNOWN a friend that has had a certain experience on which you're reporting.
Now, I've had some of the best call me a nitwit before. However, if you are going to call me a nitwit, at least do it AFTER you try it, or have direct knowledge of someone you know who HAS tried the EXACT thing as specified....
But ESPECIALLY when one has been offered the opportunity to experience the phenomenon virtually for nothing, repeat NO-THING.
The prevailing attitude seems to be that you are a charlatan, or a career thief.
That is the part that frays the cat's ass. And it isn't pleasant.
Some things may not have been viewed that way 150 years ago. Some things certainly would have been couched in a more polite manner, I believe....
or even any of the ones mentioned....
But for me, not being a br shooter, rf or cf, it kinda chaps one a bit when some people practically call
you a nitwit or LIAR for mentioning something you have done or witnessed, or have KNOWN a friend that has had a certain experience on which you're reporting.
Now, I've had some of the best call me a nitwit before. However, if you are going to call me a nitwit, at least do it AFTER you try it, or have direct knowledge of someone you know who HAS tried the EXACT thing as specified....
But ESPECIALLY when one has been offered the opportunity to experience the phenomenon virtually for nothing, repeat NO-THING.
The prevailing attitude seems to be that you are a charlatan, or a career thief.
That is the part that frays the cat's ass. And it isn't pleasant.
Some things may not have been viewed that way 150 years ago. Some things certainly would have been couched in a more polite manner, I believe....
Kent Owens
Well-known member
CharlesE,
Welcome to the rimfire game. It's not as bad as it may seem, trust me on that one.
Hope to see you shooting at a match next season. We shoot sanctioned 3-gun IR5050 matches at Blue Ridge Rifle and Pistol Assoc. at Wilkesboro from May through October.
Come shoot with us next season if you get down this way.
Welcome to the rimfire game. It's not as bad as it may seem, trust me on that one.
Hope to see you shooting at a match next season. We shoot sanctioned 3-gun IR5050 matches at Blue Ridge Rifle and Pistol Assoc. at Wilkesboro from May through October.
Come shoot with us next season if you get down this way.
H
Hambone
Guest
Just a suggestion and worth what you paid for it .
Reduce the priggish moderating, reduce the futile attempts to impose an individuals sense of what's right and what's not and allow members to express themselves freely. As long as its done adultly. Stifling debate, only detracts from the forum as a whole.
Also as Pete said in his post
Kent Owens
Well-known member
Maybe he meant "adultry"? But, kinda hard to see how that would apply? Probably be a stretch.....
I'm sorry Kent, my wife isn't going to stand for any adultery, even if ya'll decide it is a moderators duty. Though just a as a fantasy, . . . Do I get to pick the lady?
I think he's talking about a system where moderators are paid a living wage. It's a win-win. If I weren't a moderator, just think how much time I'd have available to reply to Mr. Slayer's posts.
* * *
Wilksboro isn't too bad a drive for me, 2.5 hrs one way. Made it for more than 10 years for the Hawks Ridge matches. If it fits the calendar, I'll be there. Esp. since it seems so many 1K shooters I know are taking up the other end of things.
Edit:
Since we seem to be in danger of revising history, I keep saying I didn't delete that many post. Aside from Mr. Slayer's direct insults to me, I believe it was 2 or 3. I did give a lot of infractions, and grumbled about a couple things. I believe Indiana James deleted as many or more, and someone else, who I though was Elmer.
Or are we just going to ignore that & give me the credit for all the deletions?
I think he's talking about a system where moderators are paid a living wage. It's a win-win. If I weren't a moderator, just think how much time I'd have available to reply to Mr. Slayer's posts.
* * *
Wilksboro isn't too bad a drive for me, 2.5 hrs one way. Made it for more than 10 years for the Hawks Ridge matches. If it fits the calendar, I'll be there. Esp. since it seems so many 1K shooters I know are taking up the other end of things.
Edit:
Since we seem to be in danger of revising history, I keep saying I didn't delete that many post. Aside from Mr. Slayer's direct insults to me, I believe it was 2 or 3. I did give a lot of infractions, and grumbled about a couple things. I believe Indiana James deleted as many or more, and someone else, who I though was Elmer.
Or are we just going to ignore that & give me the credit for all the deletions?
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JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Guys consider this for the rimfire board, when looking for gunsmithing help on these little buggers. most all rimfire shooters have a professional smith do their barrels. Why? They get one barrel and it never wears out where centerfire shooters run through, my guess, 2-8 barrels each season!! Plus, there is very little changes in rimfire reamers as to freebore, etc.
I know one rimfire gunsmith (not Calfee either) who has a reamer that is "magic" according to several rimfire shooters. He does a lot of business just for that one consideration.
I know one rimfire gunsmith (not Calfee either) who has a reamer that is "magic" according to several rimfire shooters. He does a lot of business just for that one consideration.
Edit:
Since we seem to be in danger of revising history, I keep saying I didn't delete that many post. Aside from Mr. Slayer's direct insults to me, I believe it was 2 or 3. I did give a lot of infractions, and grumbled about a couple things. I believe Indiana James deleted as many or more, and someone else, who I though was Elmer.
Or are we just going to ignore that & give me the credit for all the deletions?[/QUOTE]
Charles, We know who you are and we know your a man of the highest integrity, nothing some nameless troll could say will diminish that hard earned fact. So don't even begin to worry about that!
Charlie
Since we seem to be in danger of revising history, I keep saying I didn't delete that many post. Aside from Mr. Slayer's direct insults to me, I believe it was 2 or 3. I did give a lot of infractions, and grumbled about a couple things. I believe Indiana James deleted as many or more, and someone else, who I though was Elmer.
Or are we just going to ignore that & give me the credit for all the deletions?[/QUOTE]
Charles, We know who you are and we know your a man of the highest integrity, nothing some nameless troll could say will diminish that hard earned fact. So don't even begin to worry about that!
Charlie
Kent Owens
Well-known member
Charles, my wife frowns on it too so I'm not surprised. Just old fashioned, I guess.
It'll be quite a while before we begin rimfire matches in the Spring again, but you sure are welcome to come and join in any time. You'll be treated well, and you'll have a good time. I guarantee it. Rimfire is a lot quieter than CF, so you wont leave with a concussion, and that's good. I'm hoping the get Leonard Baity out there shooting with us next season. If, and big if, I can get him to let up on working long enough.
It'll be quite a while before we begin rimfire matches in the Spring again, but you sure are welcome to come and join in any time. You'll be treated well, and you'll have a good time. I guarantee it. Rimfire is a lot quieter than CF, so you wont leave with a concussion, and that's good. I'm hoping the get Leonard Baity out there shooting with us next season. If, and big if, I can get him to let up on working long enough.
Take a pistol loaded with rat shot when you go. The chiggers over there are bigger than nickels.