G
Gary Walters
Guest
Jackie can add commentary later.
jackie schmidt
New member
Comments
Geramo Villareal had some 118 BIB's, enough to work with.
All I did was put the 118's on top of the same powder charge as the 112's. Of course, since they are a 10 o-give, they set up about .055 further out than the 112.
If any of you have been foloowing my "saga" with the 112's in my Rail Gun, I have been shooting it pretty well, but could not nail an honest to goodness sub .200 10-shot group.
The 118's seem to be what it needed. I shot a couple of five shot "ones", then nailed the two 10-shot groups that Gary posted.
The HV and Sporter seemed to like the 118's as well.
The groups shot were with 33.7 grns of 4198, with the 118 BIB just touching the lands. The Rail Gun and HV and a 1-17 twist Krieger, and the LV-Sporter has a 1-18 twist.
I never wanted to try the 118, mainly because I was scared of the added recoil in the 10.5 pound Rifle. But in all honesty, I could not tell the difference between the 118 and the 112.
This is still a on going project. I suppose Randy Robinett will be getting a call from me tomorrow about getting a good stash of 118's.......
We had a great day at the range. Gary, Vic, Ed, Myself, and our new World Champion, Gene Bukys, had some good conversation, Gene gave us a detailed account of his World Championship effort. Showed us all of his medals and pictures. And, speaking for myself, inspired us to reach for higher goals.........jackie
Geramo Villareal had some 118 BIB's, enough to work with.
All I did was put the 118's on top of the same powder charge as the 112's. Of course, since they are a 10 o-give, they set up about .055 further out than the 112.
If any of you have been foloowing my "saga" with the 112's in my Rail Gun, I have been shooting it pretty well, but could not nail an honest to goodness sub .200 10-shot group.
The 118's seem to be what it needed. I shot a couple of five shot "ones", then nailed the two 10-shot groups that Gary posted.
The HV and Sporter seemed to like the 118's as well.
The groups shot were with 33.7 grns of 4198, with the 118 BIB just touching the lands. The Rail Gun and HV and a 1-17 twist Krieger, and the LV-Sporter has a 1-18 twist.
I never wanted to try the 118, mainly because I was scared of the added recoil in the 10.5 pound Rifle. But in all honesty, I could not tell the difference between the 118 and the 112.
This is still a on going project. I suppose Randy Robinett will be getting a call from me tomorrow about getting a good stash of 118's.......
We had a great day at the range. Gary, Vic, Ed, Myself, and our new World Champion, Gene Bukys, had some good conversation, Gene gave us a detailed account of his World Championship effort. Showed us all of his medals and pictures. And, speaking for myself, inspired us to reach for higher goals.........jackie
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D
Donald
Guest
Absolutely makes me sick. 
Bless you heart Jackie. You just keep trying son and some day you will shoot a good group.
Donald
Bless you heart Jackie. You just keep trying son and some day you will shoot a good group. Donald
Good job on keeping after the project, Jackie. As good as these 30BR's are, there's still times we need to try different bullet weights to see their full potential.
My recommendations to shooters asking what bullet to start with for the 30's twisted 1:17/1:18 is always the BIB 118 in either 7 or 10 ogive profiles. These bullets have proven over and over to be the quickest way to establish a solid baseline in whatever barrel I've shot them through: Lilja, Kostyshyn, Rock, etc.
And even though I make my own bullets now, I keep a stash of the BIB 118-7's on hand. I've got a barrel right now that's giving me some gas....the BIB's were the first remedy I tried to get it to shoot at a competitve level. When it wouldn't shoot the BIB 118's, I knew the barrel was a toad.
My recommendations to shooters asking what bullet to start with for the 30's twisted 1:17/1:18 is always the BIB 118 in either 7 or 10 ogive profiles. These bullets have proven over and over to be the quickest way to establish a solid baseline in whatever barrel I've shot them through: Lilja, Kostyshyn, Rock, etc.
And even though I make my own bullets now, I keep a stash of the BIB 118-7's on hand. I've got a barrel right now that's giving me some gas....the BIB's were the first remedy I tried to get it to shoot at a competitve level. When it wouldn't shoot the BIB 118's, I knew the barrel was a toad.
jackie schmidt
New member
Al
The Rail Gun was pretty much on with the load, I tweeked the tuners on the two Bag guns, tightened them right up.
Every time I go to the range with these 30's, I learn a little more. That BIB 118 is a strange bullet, really high 0-give number, but quite a bit of body for such a short bullet. While I did not have my Chrono set up, (dead battery), I suspect the velocity will be right at 3000 fps. The added overall chamber capacity due to the longer set-up probably negates the the 6 grns more in weight, hence the pressure curve is probably identicle to the 112.
This load seems really mild, I have shot some of these cases 20+ times, and the primer pockets are still tight, and extraction is a breeze. The 100+ degree temperature yesterday didn't seem to have any ill affects.
It's fun messing with this stuff. It's good practice, shooting 10 shot groups is always a challenge, miss one little twitch, and you go over .200 instantly. Overall, a good day at the range.........jackie
The Rail Gun was pretty much on with the load, I tweeked the tuners on the two Bag guns, tightened them right up.
Every time I go to the range with these 30's, I learn a little more. That BIB 118 is a strange bullet, really high 0-give number, but quite a bit of body for such a short bullet. While I did not have my Chrono set up, (dead battery), I suspect the velocity will be right at 3000 fps. The added overall chamber capacity due to the longer set-up probably negates the the 6 grns more in weight, hence the pressure curve is probably identicle to the 112.
This load seems really mild, I have shot some of these cases 20+ times, and the primer pockets are still tight, and extraction is a breeze. The 100+ degree temperature yesterday didn't seem to have any ill affects.
It's fun messing with this stuff. It's good practice, shooting 10 shot groups is always a challenge, miss one little twitch, and you go over .200 instantly. Overall, a good day at the range.........jackie
J
Jeffreytooker
Guest
Bib 118 7&10
There has been some discussion this weekend at our informal score match. The subject was the difference between the BIB .308 7 & 10 Ogive bullets. The 10 is just a bit longer. Performance wise are there any principal diffrences between the two bullets?
Jeffrey Tooker
There has been some discussion this weekend at our informal score match. The subject was the difference between the BIB .308 7 & 10 Ogive bullets. The 10 is just a bit longer. Performance wise are there any principal diffrences between the two bullets?
Jeffrey Tooker
Jeffrey
if you are talking about the BIB 1" jacket bullets, both the 7 and 10 ogive use the same jacket length, the difference being the "pointiness"...the 10 ogive has less full caliber body and a longer, more pointed nose.
if you are talking about the BIB 1" jacket bullets, both the 7 and 10 ogive use the same jacket length, the difference being the "pointiness"...the 10 ogive has less full caliber body and a longer, more pointed nose.
jackie schmidt
New member
Jeffery
I didn't have any 7 ogive 118's, I only had about 75 of the 10's. Enough to establish the tune, and shoot the groups shown.
I suspect that a 118 on a 7 ogive would need a little less powder, as it would set up at the same spot as a 112, with more bullet in the case.
I really do not know where I amat when looking at the perspective of "load window". I know in a 6PPC, we call 3400+ the "upper window", and 3320 to about 3400 the "middle window".
Evertime I tried to go much over 3050 with this 30 combination, it gets eratic. Judging from the usual suspect of indicators, (primer radius, ease of extraction, case life), I would say Iamin the "middle window". I sure can't see a need to gomuch higher.........jackie
I didn't have any 7 ogive 118's, I only had about 75 of the 10's. Enough to establish the tune, and shoot the groups shown.
I suspect that a 118 on a 7 ogive would need a little less powder, as it would set up at the same spot as a 112, with more bullet in the case.
I really do not know where I amat when looking at the perspective of "load window". I know in a 6PPC, we call 3400+ the "upper window", and 3320 to about 3400 the "middle window".
Evertime I tried to go much over 3050 with this 30 combination, it gets eratic. Judging from the usual suspect of indicators, (primer radius, ease of extraction, case life), I would say Iamin the "middle window". I sure can't see a need to gomuch higher.........jackie
C
caroby
Guest
Boy, that 5 shot Sporter group is NICE! From a 10.5 gun to boot!
WOW,
cale
WOW,
cale
Ken Livengood
New member
Jackie, What lot of 4198 are you using? It must be a much hotter lot than is available now. I havent been able to use only in the 33.7 range since my 2000&2001 ran out. with 2007 I have to run at least 2 grains hotter.
Randys 118 10 ojive is about the best bullet I've ever used. anyhow the best shooting I ever did is with that bullet. They are a little more sensitive to
land contact but if you keep up with it they ARE the most CONSISTANT bullet
I've used.
Ken Livengood
Randys 118 10 ojive is about the best bullet I've ever used. anyhow the best shooting I ever did is with that bullet. They are a little more sensitive to
land contact but if you keep up with it they ARE the most CONSISTANT bullet
I've used.
Ken Livengood
jackie schmidt
New member
Ken
When I first started this project about 3 momths ago, I called Amy at Bruno's and asked her to send me 24 pounds of 4198. What I got is H-4198 Extreme Small Extruded.. The orange sticker on the side says 80520084550. There is a number on the front label that says 0519, and another, printed verticle, that reads t0106.
For what it is worth, it says "made in USA"..........jackie
When I first started this project about 3 momths ago, I called Amy at Bruno's and asked her to send me 24 pounds of 4198. What I got is H-4198 Extreme Small Extruded.. The orange sticker on the side says 80520084550. There is a number on the front label that says 0519, and another, printed verticle, that reads t0106.
For what it is worth, it says "made in USA"..........jackie
J
Jeffreytooker
Guest
German
I contacted Hodgden some weeks ago about the orange tag number. They said that the last four numbers were Hodgdon info numbers, but not the lot number. I asked specifically if the last four were a lot number. My H-4198 that I got from Powder Valley about 1 July is # 80316094701. That is March 16 09 8#. They would not tell me what the 4701 actually stood for.
Jeffrey Tooker
I contacted Hodgden some weeks ago about the orange tag number. They said that the last four numbers were Hodgdon info numbers, but not the lot number. I asked specifically if the last four were a lot number. My H-4198 that I got from Powder Valley about 1 July is # 80316094701. That is March 16 09 8#. They would not tell me what the 4701 actually stood for.
Jeffrey Tooker
Jackie's 30BR Groups
Jackies,
I just started making my own bullets (first 200), Blackmon dies, 7 ogive, 112gr, .925 J4 jackets, and have been satisfied with the results. I’m using 34.5grs of H-4198, I need to check the vel. but right now if it isn't broken, don't fix it. I have used 34.8grs, with a Cheeks 118.
John
Mims,Fl
Jackies,
I just started making my own bullets (first 200), Blackmon dies, 7 ogive, 112gr, .925 J4 jackets, and have been satisfied with the results. I’m using 34.5grs of H-4198, I need to check the vel. but right now if it isn't broken, don't fix it. I have used 34.8grs, with a Cheeks 118.
John
Mims,Fl
Ken Livengood
New member
Jackie, I also got 4 jugs of that same lot from Amy. I might just break it out and do some testing. Did you by chance chonograph your loads?
Ken
Ken
jackie schmidt
New member
Ken
Not yesterday, but in just about every other range session, I have Chrongraphed the loads.
Out of the 24 inch Rail Gun and HV Barrel, that load gets about 3020, in the 22 inch Sporter, a tad over 3000.
I have not had any luck trying to go much over that. Popped shots will kill an agg in a minute. 3050 seems to be about the top with this particular powder......jackie
Not yesterday, but in just about every other range session, I have Chrongraphed the loads.
Out of the 24 inch Rail Gun and HV Barrel, that load gets about 3020, in the 22 inch Sporter, a tad over 3000.
I have not had any luck trying to go much over that. Popped shots will kill an agg in a minute. 3050 seems to be about the top with this particular powder......jackie
I have no business saying this, but I'm going to anyway
I think there's a lesson to be learned re estimating (guessing) what powder/primer/barrel combinations are gonna' do when running this hot. I've currently got two 6X47L barrels that are 200fps apart velocity-wise and I've had 6BR barrels do the same. My two newer Krieger 18 and Hart 17 30cal barrels seem to be BOTH 120fps different than my old Krieger 18"er and my 10's.
Conversely I've got 6BR barrels in 14-12-10 and 8 twist that can use the same loads.........
ALL's I'm saying is, maybe it's primers, maybe it's barrels or powders, maybe it's angle of the sun on the chrono's or latitude or density attitude I dunno, but in the end it's WHAT YOU GET from your own combination...... I think that pre-suppositions will bite'cherasss and in the end it's just about fiddle-diddling about 'til she hits, and Ol' Jackamo' just got 'er NAILED threetimes eh!!!
At least for this week
nahhhhh, these thirties just seem to stay where they're set until the barrel wears out..... IF the barrel wears out.... I've got a fireform barrel that's still drilling dots.
Good On Ya Jackie
al
I think there's a lesson to be learned re estimating (guessing) what powder/primer/barrel combinations are gonna' do when running this hot. I've currently got two 6X47L barrels that are 200fps apart velocity-wise and I've had 6BR barrels do the same. My two newer Krieger 18 and Hart 17 30cal barrels seem to be BOTH 120fps different than my old Krieger 18"er and my 10's.
Conversely I've got 6BR barrels in 14-12-10 and 8 twist that can use the same loads.........
ALL's I'm saying is, maybe it's primers, maybe it's barrels or powders, maybe it's angle of the sun on the chrono's or latitude or density attitude I dunno, but in the end it's WHAT YOU GET from your own combination...... I think that pre-suppositions will bite'cherasss and in the end it's just about fiddle-diddling about 'til she hits, and Ol' Jackamo' just got 'er NAILED threetimes eh!!!
At least for this week
nahhhhh, these thirties just seem to stay where they're set until the barrel wears out..... IF the barrel wears out.... I've got a fireform barrel that's still drilling dots.
Good On Ya Jackie
al
Butch Lambert
Active member
I have 2 lots of 4198 and they are a little older I believe. One is 2839B1794 and the other is 1220942892. Can anybody decipher those for me?
Butch
Butch