If primer isn't falling out or

W

Worker

New member
Ok Loose primer pockets. Most of my loads are in the "Red Zone" (hot) so I have lots of brass with fairly loose primer pockets. I keep loading them ! So why not ? No black rings or blown primers ! Still great accuracy. In my 6x284 using Norma brass and fifth or sixth firing of fire breathing loads I'm getting groups under 1/4 MOA.:cool:
 
Loose primer pockets

Some rifles burn bolt faces worse than others. Remingtons don't seem to do it, eventhough their bolt faces look rough from new, while Sakos seem to be bolt face burners. Military Enfields are bolt face burners, even though pressure is quite low and primer pockets tight, a certain amount of gas must still be escaping. I think that oil left on bolt faces may burn bolt faces in certain rifles more readily than loose primer pockets. I use some cases with loose pockets in my stainless Ruger 220 Swift and have noticed no burning on bolt face as of yet. Generally I use my cases till the primers fall out with gravity.:eek:
 
murphy & worker,,, ya'll need to buy a really good pair of safety glass's,,,,,,,,,,, maybe even add a full face helmet

the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

DD
 
Why ?

david dumas said:
murphy & worker,,, ya'll need to buy a really good pair of safety glass's,,,,,,,,,,, maybe even add a full face helmet

the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

DD
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Win Mod 70 Classic ,Rem 700 Cooper Mod 22 I realize a "chain is only as strong as its weakest link". But does that adage apply shooting safety behind the bolt ? Regarding loose primer pockets
 
simple,,,,,,,gas leak!!

the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

DD
 
Answer to why

Worker said:
Win Mod 70 Classic ,Rem 700 Cooper Mod 22 I realize a "chain is only as strong as its weakest link". But does that adage apply shooting safety behind the bolt ? Regarding loose primer pockets
Click to expand...

For what its worth.

GRAND FORKS, N.D. - A woman from the northeast North Dakota town of Thompson who had a rifle shell explode in her face during a hunting trip is suing the company that made the ammunition.

Sheri Sponsler, 46, says a defect in the design or production of the shell caused her injuries.

The ammunition company, Hornady Manufacturing Co., based in Grand Island, Neb., denies any wrongdoing and has asked a judge to dismiss the case.

The two sides are scheduled to meet at a Feb. 25 hearing in Fargo.

Sponsler shot at a doe while she was deer hunting near Edmore on Nov. 11, 2007. The court complaint filed by her attorney says the shell's brass casing holding the powder failed and exploded, blowing out the bottom of the gun's chamber and sending shrapnel into Sponsler's face, eye and hand.

"The force of the explosion threw Sheri's head back, causing severe whiplash injury. Sheri immediately noticed that her ears were ringing immensely," the complaint says.

It says Sponsler continues to suffer health problems, including ringing in her ears, sensitivity to sound, headaches, a sensation of movement inside her head, scars on her hand and face, symptoms of nerve damage, and severe pain in her head and neck.

She is seeking more than $75,000 in compensation for pain and emotional distress, medical expenses, lost wages and legal fees.

Hornady, founded in 1949, sells bullets around the world. Company attorneys say Sponsler's injuries were the result of an accident, the negligence of a party other than the company or misuse of the ammunition.

Sponsler "knew and appreciated the risk inherent in her activities and voluntarily assumed the risk of injury from those activities," the company's response says.

This is the kind of thing that happens when the weak link fails. Not only you, but innocent bystanders can be hurt also.

DR
 
worker and murphy

personally i think both of you need to find another hobby before this one kills you or someone in your vacinity. WHY take chances with your life or eyesight. get realistic! if more speed is what you want get a bigger boiler. if it is accuracy, well you are in a barrel node with an appearent overload. find the next barrel node one step down. its there and alot safer for all concerned, including me. you say im a pompus arrogant twit to say me? what you do reflects on the whole shooting fraternity and i dont enjoy or think recklessness is a virtue.
Fred
 
DR4NRA said:
For what its worth.

GRAND FORKS, N.D. - A woman from the northeast North Dakota town of Thompson who had a rifle shell explode in her face during a hunting trip is suing the company that made the ammunition.
==============================================

IMHO there was some barrel blockage. I would like to see the rifle. Was
she wearing eye and ear protection? New gun defect? Old gun - new ammo? I had a friend killed a few years back because he left a section
of brass rod in the barrel.
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Gerry, I agree that there had to be some sort of barrel obstruction, Other than the article I have no Idea what went wrong, not saying it was hornady, not saying it was the woman. My point to worker and the post was that the weakest link in the chain is human error, or just plain arrogance that it could never happen to them. My main point is that if you are going to reload ammunition, then you need to take Safety to the max. If something is not quite right like loose primer pockets, especially with max loads can definately cause something bad to happen.
So again IMHO its SAFETY FIRST, from beginning to end. If a case looks funny, or the primer doesnt fit right, I chuck it, I can replace a piece of brass, but I cant replace a hand,eye or any other body part, and would never be able to sleep at night if my carelessness caused an injury to someone else.

Just my beliefs and opinion.

DR
 
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Comments like this is why ?

DR4NRA said:
Gerry, I agree that there had to be some sort of barrel obstruction, Other than the article I have no Idea what went wrong, not saying it was hornady, not saying it was the woman. My point to worker and the post was that the weakest link in the chain is human error, or just plain arrogance that it could never happen to them. My main point is that if you are going to reload ammunition, then you need to take Safety to the max. If something is not quite right like loose primer pockets, especially with max loads can definately cause something bad to happen.
So again IMHO its SAFETY FIRST, from beginning to end. If a case looks funny, or the primer doesnt fit right, I chuck it, I can replace a piece of brass, but I cant replace a hand,eye or any other body part, and would never be able to sleep at night if my carelessness caused an injury to someone else.

Just my beliefs and opinion.

DR
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This is why I posted my question . Thanks for the wisdom ,maybe I will rid my self of the brass. The thing is Norma brass is known for loosening up in primer pocket after just one loading. My loads are hot BUT! no shining ejector marks,no ejection problems. No black rings around the primers,no blown primers. Its W-W brass and about 5th loading I've annealed the brass. Ya you got me thinking I can't afford to hurt some one else or my self.
 
Worker said:
This is why I posted my question . Thanks for the wisdom ,maybe I will rid my self of the brass. The thing is Norma brass is known for loosening up in primer pocket after just one loading. My loads are hot BUT! no shining ejector marks,no ejection problems. No black rings around the primers,no blown primers. Its W-W brass and about 5th loading I've annealed the brass. Ya you got me thinking I can't afford to hurt some one else or my self.
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Glad I got ya to think, I have been using Norma brass in my 220 Swift for quite awhile now, 1 batch of 50 has 10 loadings on it, another has 5, the ones with 10 loadings are just now starting to loosen up in the primer pocket, they no longer get loaded to max, usually 2 grs below. These will be trashed after 2 more loadings, or before depending on whether I get any neck splits, or any other noticeable flaws upon firing or resizing. Either way I just ordered another 100, and it just may be that they get chucked after this round.

DR
 
I consider loose primer pocket the pressure limit for hot handloads in strong rifles.

By measuring the growth of the extractor groove, I have a pre cursor of the loose primer pocket.

I back off from that threshold a safety margin.

Vernon Speer suggested 6% powder charge safety margin in 1956.
By measuring all around the extractor groove, and when the threshold is distinct and not varying from round to round, I will use less than 6% safety margin as a useful load.

I will re use some brass with slightly loose primer pockets for range work, but mostly loose primer pocket means I am never using that brass again, and it bagged and labeled as such.
 
Hornady shell that exploded

Here's a couple pictures taken by the firearms consultant and the analysis of the Hornady brand 220 Swift cartridge casing that caused the explosion while deer hunting in North Dakota. There was evidence that there was inconsistent loading of the cartridges, and a greater possibility that the cartridge that exploded contained too much gun powder or the wrong kind of gun powder or the wrong bullet.

Given the lack of damage to the rifle's barrel, the signs of extreme pressure on the cartridge case, while at the same time, no casing separation in the exploded cartridge's mid-section, the firearm was eliminated as a cause of the explosion. Given the lack of scratch marks on the inside of the neck of the exploded cartridge, it was concluded that the round that exploded had not been reloaded. Excessive extraction marks and the sharper primer edges of the cartridge further leads to conclude that the ammunition was the source of the explosion.

The primer was blown completely out of the cartridge casing. Metal from the back end of the cartridge had clearly "flowed" under great pressure into parts of the bolt where it was not intended to go. When the shot was fired, the pressure within the chamber rose to excess very quickly. This extreme pressure expanded the base of the cartridge into areas of the rifle's bolt face and pancaked the primer out of the primer pocket. Gas then escaped behind the cartridge. It was these escaping gases, mixed with pieces of the cartridge case, that caused the injuries.
 

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Just looking at the head of that case I'd have to say that someone at Hornady wasn't paying enough attention. I'm not sure that too much of the proper powder would produce enough pressure to do this so the powder was either too fast for the Swift or someone dare I say sabotaged something.

It would be interesting to know if any other rounds from the same box or ammunition had been fired in this rifle previously, or if any of the rest of the box has been subjected to pressure testing.
 
It seems that many in the shooting game are penny wise and pound foolish! It's your face, go ahead and take the chance if you choose.
 
A well known "super shoot" winner once told me that he occasionally uses super glue to hold in his primers. I'm sure some of you know who I'm talking about!
 
cigarette papers......fingernail polish......Bob-N-Roys

:)

or you can stake 'em re this old post!
Lynn
Registered User
Join Date
Feb 2003
Posts
2,142
Alinwa
Al to stake primers it is actually a little harder than it sounds.The hard part is in holding the brass so you can stake it without bending it or hurting the necks.
I staked 300 Ackley brass by taking a 50 bmg case and drilling out the primer pocket so the belt on the 375 H-H case would sit on the casehead.This allows the body of the brass to hang free.I would put the 50 bmg case in a die and put the die upside down into my press and stake the primers with a punch in 4 spots.
It is the same thing as tightening up the main caps on your favorite 4 bolt block just with alot less force.
If you slip the primer will come out and in my case it will take your thumbnail off.After you switch hands and lose your second thumbnail your desire to stake primers fades very quickly.
I have used a spare barrel to hold the cases that has been cut very short but it is very time consuming as you have to tap the brass back out of the chamber meaning you need to flip it over twice per case.
Now the first time they seat easily they get marked with a pen a tossed after firing.
Waterboy
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LOL

al
 
Worker said:
Ok Loose primer pockets. Most of my loads are in the "Red Zone" (hot) so I have lots of brass with fairly loose primer pockets. I keep loading them ! So why not ? No black rings or blown primers ! Still great accuracy. In my 6x284 using Norma brass and fifth or sixth firing of fire breathing loads I'm getting groups under 1/4 MOA.:cool:
Click to expand...

No reason to stop using the brass. A bit more powder/pressure and you'll cut a ring in your boltface. A bit more and you'll pierce a primer now and then causing additional problems. At some point you'll blow the primers clean out - not good at all. But, under the circumstances you describe, I think that's a fairly normal situation for a benchrest shooter.

Anybody that doesn't wear safety glasses while shooting or around others shooting is taking an unnecessary risk.
 
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