harrell measure question

M

martin22250

Guest
I bought a used harrell measure, it don't have bearing in it, it feels like it is cutting a kernel or two on the bottom of the drop stroke, it looks in great shape, and feels super smooth, but at the bottom of the stroke it cuts a couple of kernels. At matches I've been to most shooters who use these seem to drop their charges smoother than mine is working. The click setting seem postive and smooth. It looks to me their is no way for it not to cut a few kernels on the drop stroke is this normal or should I contact harrells?

Dustin
 
I have been using a Harrell measure for about 15 years. It is one of the ones that has roller or needle bearings. with the powders that I use it for, I never have a grain cutting problem, but I actually want to feel a little crunch when I am closing the measuring cavity. If I don't, I dump the powder back in the top of the bottle. Over those years, I have mostly used 133, but I have also done some experimenting with finer extruded powders and some ball. When I load something like 4350, I throw light, trickle, and expect some grain cutting. I keep the Harrell in my range kit, and do my loading with slower powders at home with others that I own. What powder are you using?
 
Boyd Allen said:
I have been using a Harrell measure for about 15 years. It is one of the ones that has roller or needle bearings. with the powders that I use it for, I never have a grain cutting problem, but I actually want to feel a little crunch when I am closing the measuring cavity. If I don't, I dump the powder back in the top of the bottle. Over those years, I have mostly used 133, but I have also done some experimenting with finer extruded powders and some ball. When I load something like 4350, I throw light, trickle, and expect some grain cutting. I keep the Harrell in my range kit, and do my loading with slower powders at home with others that I own. What powder are you using?[/QUOT
Using n133, I ran some h322 threw it and it cut almost as bad. Do they even make the non bearing version any more?
Click to expand...
 
Looking at their web site, it appears that the schuetzen/pistol, and custom 90 have plain bearings (don't have the rollers). When you say cut, do you mean literally cut in half, or are you referring to what I call crunch, which is hardly requires any additional effort to close the cavity? I never get actual cutting with mine, using the powders that you mentioned. If you are actually cutting, perhaps you need to call them. They are some of the very best for customer service that I have ever come across. I have done a lot of research on throwing charges with the common short range benchrest powders, using several measures and a couple of .02 grain electronic scales, and IMO a lot of the old information about what constitutes good measure technique is the blind leading the blind, stuff that has been handed down in print for decades as if it came down from the mountain on stone tablets. I have tuned a couple of balance scales so that I can see the effect of individual granules of 133. Of course seeing this is made a lot easier with by the use of a web cam, to eliminate parallax error and magnify.
 
Boyd Allen said:
I have done a lot of research on throwing charges with the common short range benchrest powders, using several measures and a couple of .02 grain electronic scales, and IMO a lot of the old information about what constitutes good measure technique is the blind leading the blind, stuff that has been handed down in print for decades as if it came down from the mountain on stone tablets. I have tuned a couple of balance scales so that I can see the effect of individual granules of 133. Of course seeing this is made a lot easier with by the use of a web cam, to eliminate parallax error and magnify.
Click to expand...

I am curious; what is the pressure/velocity - value, of an individual granule of 133? (PPC)
 
I have no idea. I just mentioned it as a way of saying that even without a magnetic force restoration electronic scale, that I have the means to measure differences in thrown charge weights with sufficient accuracy to be able to see the effects of different measure operating techniques. My original goal was to learn how to throw 133 to +- .1 grain, which I believe is a realistic standard for any short range work. I will leave the answers to your question to the long range guys, where it matters. BTW throwing 133 to that standard is difficult, and I believe uncommon, and given the quality of shooting that I have seen done with thrown charges, may be a higher standard than is actually required, as long as you are solidly in tune.
 
Boyd Allen said:
Looking at their web site, it appears that the schuetzen/pistol, and custom 90 have plain bearings (don't have the rollers). When you say cut, do you mean literally cut in half, or are you referring to what I call crunch, which is hardly requires any additional effort to close the cavity? I never get actual cutting with mine, using the powders that you mentioned. If you are actually cutting, perhaps you need to call them. They are some of the very best for customer service that I have ever come across. I have done a lot of research on throwing charges with the common short range benchrest powders, using several measures and a couple of .02 grain electronic scales, and IMO a lot of the old information about what constitutes good measure technique is the blind leading the blind, stuff that has been handed down in print for decades as if it came down from the mountain on stone tablets. I have tuned a couple of balance scales so that I can see the effect of individual granules of 133. Of course seeing this is made a lot easier with by the use of a web cam, to eliminate parallax error and magnify.
Click to expand...

I played with it some more and I would probably call it a crunch, the handle will not fall down on its own on the last bit of stroke. I hand weighed some charges and its seemed really consintent , it.will go two clicks past the zero mark. It is by far the best feeling measurer I have used. It don't have roller bearing, but has two c clips that go over the drum. Before I was just using a lee powder measure and was happy with the charges but wanted to be able to have the clicks to return to my setting, the lee was not easy to adjust quickly. Everyone at matches gave my lee a funny look :)
 
Some Years ago....

martin22250 said:
I played with it some more and I would probably call it a crunch, the handle will not fall down on its own on the last bit of stroke. I hand weighed some charges and its seemed really consintent , it.will go two clicks past the zero mark. It is by far the best feeling measurer I have used. It don't have roller bearing, but has two c clips that go over the drum. Before I was just using a lee powder measure and was happy with the charges but wanted to be able to have the clicks to return to my setting, the lee was not easy to adjust quickly. Everyone at matches gave my lee a funny look :)
Click to expand...

Some years ago Frank Murphy wrote an article for Precision Rifle regards powder measure accuracy. The $29 Lee was as accurate as any. We miss Frank (he passed away some years ago.) His articles were easy to read and very informative.

Virg
 
I reject any charge that does not crunch. I know that this flies in the face of years of published discussion, but I go with what my own research has proven to me. Others can do as they please.
 
No, not at all. Damned hard to describe a feel. Cutting will stop you dead and make you lean harder on the handle, or back up and go again. Crunch is just a feel as the powder chamber is closed, that does not force a pause, or require much if any extra effort.
 
Yes, we miss Frank!

Frank was really a good fellow! Had the right idea.....I suppose always...
 
martin22250 said:
I bought a used harrell measure, it don't have bearing in it, it feels like it is cutting a kernel or two on the bottom of the drop stroke, it looks in great shape, and feels super smooth, but at the bottom of the stroke it cuts a couple of kernels. At matches I've been to most shooters who use these seem to drop their charges smoother than mine is working. The click setting seem postive and smooth. It looks to me their is no way for it not to cut a few kernels on the drop stroke is this normal or should I contact harrells?

Dustin
Click to expand...


This measure and others like it, is a simple design,consisting of a gravity fed, adjustable chamber, for volume. When you drop the handle,what you see or feel is what you get. Mine does the same thing depending on the choice of powder.

I don't worry too much about how smooth it operates. There are too many more important things to pay attention to in this sport.




Glenn
 
Personally, and isn't that what it's about, I like and have the Harrell measure(s) with the bearings. They drop extremely accurately and I have the targets and/or awards to prove it. My measures drop to within .001 inch.
I tire of those who go into long dissertations about what is wrong with dropping charges and use a scale that measures to .001 grains but can't back any of this up with targets. I understand there is a lot more than the weight of charges when it come to accuracy.

Positive ID? No. But then I can tell the difference between the Gospel according to Matthew and A Christmas Story by Charles Dickens.
 
I agree with what Paul Revere wrote. The reason that I took the time to work on my powder throwing is that I did not want to take any more equipment to the range, and I wanted to see if I could learn to throw 133 to +- .1 consistency. It was not easy, but I did, and I might add that the simple direction to be consistent and practice, will not, in my experience, achieve that. The way that I operate my measures is quite specific, and did not come from any article. I did a lot of experimenting, trying things that were new to me.
 
Martin,

I owned two of the older Harrell's measures. First year of production was around 1996 and they were a four click measure (four clicks between numbers). Then they made the same measurer with a six click drum the next year. After a year or two of producing that, they came out with the bearing models. The older versions look and feel more like the original culver and Jones measurers.

Just use it, don't worry about the crunch to much. Just figure out what method works best for you. I run the handle at a medium speed and don't want the crunch but I use 8208.

Hovis
 
Uthink Uknow said:
Personally, and isn't that what it's about, I like and have the Harrell measure(s) with the bearings. They drop extremely accurately and I have the targets and/or awards to prove it. My measures drop to within .001 inch.
I tire of those who go into long dissertations about what is wrong with dropping charges and use a scale that measures to .001 grains but can't back any of this up with targets. I understand there is a lot more than the weight of charges when it come to accuracy.

Positive ID? No. But then I can tell the difference between the Gospel according to Matthew and A Christmas Story by Charles Dickens.
Click to expand...

Hey Uhthink, I have targets......and wooden plaques in a pile....... you show me yours and I'll show you mine.

I'm calling you out, have you EVER fired a shot over 200yds in competition?

You sure have to opinions, now just tell us where you shoot you 600-1000yd stuff cuz I've never heard of you.


al

Al Matson
360 904 6941
20211 NE Yacolt Mtn Rd
Yacolt WA 98675
NBRSA #N 85553 NW
 
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