Friend Jackie Schmidt

mr calfee, jackie, et all,

what is the possibility/probability that the loss in accuracy after threading was actually due to the node changing. we remove metal, weight from the bbl when threading. has anyone redeveloped a load for the "new " threaded bbl ? if one just reshoots the same ammo as was developed prior to threading, isnt that an invalid test ?

inquiring minds want to know ??

(kathy) says they reshot, but did not say they developed a new load....so an invalid test .

mike in co
 
Quote " ........ Do so know. Threading a barrel muzzle will show an increase of bore diameter under the threaded area of aprox .0001". This can be verified with an air gage, as I did while employed at Shilen Rifles.

Paul Dorsey
Dorsey Rifles ........ "


Seems this little gem of information was missed until Dusty picked up on it, seems somebody actually has scientific evidence that the machining does effect the bore. Is it now a matter of how much and what effect that has ??


Paul, are you talking about a shallow thread in a full diameter barrel or a deeper cut like when installing a muzzle brake ??
 
wondering

:confused:what the booollet temp is on exit .I'm thinking very hot.Would the expansion of the booollet have any effect on the .0001 bore expansion?Like could it become lost in the noise?Could the expansion of the muzzle be an asset?Or is the choke effect advantageous?mebe opening up at the expansion rate is the hummers mystery?I don't know does anyone?
good shootin Jim.:confused:
 
i'm not sure there is enough time for any heat to trasfer thru the length of the bullet, now there is significant pressure at shot start that mayb bump the bullet size....but not likely at the muzzle end.....

mike in co
 
Mike

It doesn't need to heat the length the base diameter would do it.:confused:
 
Kathy said:
Dennis, when one threads the muzzle of a rifle barrel, the bore, at the muzzle, becomes distorted.
Click to expand...
This is usually true. But only because there is usually residual stress in the steel and the threading operation usually imparts it's own different stresses into the steel. If neither of these is the case, then no the bore will not distort. But then again MOST barrels are note COMPLETELY free of stresses before the threading, and the most stress free methods of threading are grinding (very light passes) and EDM. Methods almost no one uses for one reason or another.

Kathy said:
My dear friends: I didn't make the laws of physics.....someone else did all that stuff.......my job, if I want to improve accuracy, is to adapt to the laws of physics.....which I do......
Click to expand...
Don't go there Bill. Unles you are also willing to come off of the notion of some sort of "Parallel Node" which defies that statement.

Kathy said:
Sometimes folks find it uncomfortable to adapt to the laws of Nature (physics)....I don't. If I want to produce killer rifles, I got to do as Nature dictates...

Nature, or the laws of physics, for what ever reason, dictates this: When the outside of a finished rifle barrel is cut, for any reason, the bore becomes distorted.....

I'm so sorry if that fact of Nature (physics) offends anyone....I didn't make the laws....

Your friend, Bill Calfee
Click to expand...
Sometimes you don't even pay attention to them.:D
I've heard that Bumble bees are the same way though.
 
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Friend Vibe

Friend Vibe:

Just came in from the range testing the new RvA Solid Muzzle device...(tuner)

Man Vibe, I loved your post #51....awesome......man, you put great squares around my qoutes.......awesome...

I don't know how you do that so neat.......I know you tried to teach me to do it as good as you can, but, I've never figured it out.....although I'm trying..

Thanks again for teaching me how to put those killer squares around my quotes from other folks, even though I still can't do it....

Vibe, you're the best I've ever seen at putting them squares around folks's quotes......

Someday I'm going to be able to do it as good as you......

Your buddy, thanks again, Bill Calfee
 
Bill,

With all the smart comments you put up with here it is nice to see you finally giving a bit of it back !!

Seriously.

Bryce
 
BJS6 said:
Quote " ........ Do so know. Threading a barrel muzzle will show an increase of bore diameter under the threaded area of aprox .0001". This can be verified with an air gage, as I did while employed at Shilen Rifles.

Paul Dorsey
Dorsey Rifles ........ "


Seems this little gem of information was missed until Dusty picked up on it, seems somebody actually has scientific evidence that the machining does effect the bore. Is it now a matter of how much and what effect that has ??


Paul, are you talking about a shallow thread in a full diameter barrel or a deeper cut like when installing a muzzle brake ??
Click to expand...


The threads were SAE fine as I installed a Kleingunther brake on a 20" #7
contour for a LV 6PPC.

Paul Dorsey
 
mike in co said:
i'm not sure there is enough time for any heat to trasfer thru the length of the bullet, now there is significant pressure at shot start that mayb bump the bullet size....but not likely at the muzzle end.....

mike in co
Click to expand...

Mike,

I'm not sure how hot a bullet does get in 22 inches of bore either...but here's a test though... explode 30+ grains of powder behind your finger then run your finger at 3200 fps across a pollished piece of stainless and twist it two revolutions while doing so... then put it on a thermometer immediatly afterward? I bet that bullet expands even just a little.

Paul
 
pbike said:
Mike,

I'm not sure how hot a bullet does get in 22 inches of bore either...but here's a test though... explode 30+ grains of powder behind your finger then run your finger at 3200 fps across a pollished piece of stainless and twist it two revolutions while doing so... then put it on a thermometer immediatly afterward? I bet that bullet expands even just a little.

Paul
Click to expand...
ok but you put your finger on the front of a 1inch bbl and pull the trigger on a 6ppc case full of n133, and tell me if the pressure makes your finger swell ?

its a time thing,,,in nano seconds.....and since no one here has the tools to tell us what is happening, i'll stick with 55-60,000 psi in 3 micro seconds, over 20 inches of rubbing the od and short time heat to the base.


oh and i shoot noting but moly coated bullets......so that would change everything ..in my direction....

mike in co
 
.0001

of an inch you cant see.I'm sure the thing would swell that much friction is instant heat ?with out the heat from combustion?
 
I don't have a horse in the tuner race.

I do frequent the board in an effort to improve my shooting skills and learn from the experience of others.

However,try as I may, I have been unable to figger out what Mr. Calfee is trying to say. Perhaps he just enjoys riddles, or talking in circles, and has no intention of sharing the big secret, if there is such a thing.

I do appreciate the testing that many individuals do, and the open sharing of knowledge and experiences of most posters on this board.

I thought I knew a liddle about shooting and reloading, until I heard bout this thing called benchrest, custom actions, etc. Now that I've toyed some with these rifles, I want all my groups to be tiny dots. It's not happening, as I've got a lot to learn yet, but wan to say thanks folks,(most of you :D) and keep the wealth of knowledge coming.
 
Lynn said:
If turning down a barrel too much distorts the bore wouldn't turning it down a little do the same thing just to a lesser degree?
Click to expand...


The real question should be, how much material can be removed before a difference in accuracy can be detected?

Would 5 thousands removed affect accuracy? I doubt there is any way anyone could prove it...

What about a fine thread with no diameter removed off the large diameter of a Benchrest barrel? Have repeatable scientific tests been tried?

Just ideas to contemplate...
 
Lynn,

I am sure there would be no problem "gluing" a tuner on if the style of the tuner allowed that. Epoxy or Loctite would do it quite easily. A little heat and you could remove it...
 
How about a size for size?

It should be possible to install one by making them size for size; both the I D of the tuner and the O D of the barrel the same size, assuming the tuner body is made from the same marerial as the barrel. Isn't it best to have no slop between the two? Wouldn't any kind of epoxy or even locktite isolate the tuner from the barrel, to some degree? I'm sure I don't need to explain to anyone how to install a Size for Size item.
 
to add to attachment possabilities

i was talking to jeff cochran last week and he suggested using a reverse taper and sliding the tuner on from the chamber end with a matching taper.the recoil would just tighten the fit.when the removal was needed just take a plastic or rubber mallet smack the end to remove it. i hope bill reads this and gives an opinion on if this could work. tim in tx
 
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tim in tx said:
i was talking to jeff cochran last week and he suggested using a reverse taper and sliding the tuner on from the chamber end with a matching taper.the recoil would just tighten the fit.when the removal was needed just take a plastic or rubber mallet smack the end to remove it. i hope bill reads this and gives an opinion on if this could work. tim in tx
Click to expand...
Now why does that idea make me think of automotive valve spring retainers? :D
 
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