First hand experience Testing at Lapua
- Thread starter Fred J
- Start date
Joe Friedrich
Member
Fred,
Was there for the opening ceremony, although it wasn't a test day they did test one of my rifles for about an hour with 6-8 different lots of midas. They used a fixture within a fixture for the position rifles. With the one fixture removed, they put the whole rifle in the main fixture with 2 adjustable clamps on each side to hold the forend of rifle firmly. I didn't use any barrel attachments, smallest group was 12mm.
They did state they may change the fixture to adapt better to BR stocks. I believe the forend of rifle sat right on the metal surface of the fixture.
Planing to go back next year and give it a go with a new rifle, then head to Dan's afterwards for some testing there.
Regards,
Joe
Was there for the opening ceremony, although it wasn't a test day they did test one of my rifles for about an hour with 6-8 different lots of midas. They used a fixture within a fixture for the position rifles. With the one fixture removed, they put the whole rifle in the main fixture with 2 adjustable clamps on each side to hold the forend of rifle firmly. I didn't use any barrel attachments, smallest group was 12mm.
They did state they may change the fixture to adapt better to BR stocks. I believe the forend of rifle sat right on the metal surface of the fixture.
Planing to go back next year and give it a go with a new rifle, then head to Dan's afterwards for some testing there.
Regards,
Joe
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Test with the tuner. I didn't and wish I would have. Next trip (new rifle coming) it will be with the tuner.
They are very accomodating. They clamped the stock the first time. I asked if I could bring my one piece Pappas rest and did the 2nd time. He basically disassembled their existing stock clamping device to allow me to use the one piece rest. I can't say that I saw much difference between them clamping it and my Pappas rest. Results were about the same.
They let me test everything pistol, biathalon, center X, Midas +, X Act. Even let me test final candidates against my best Eley. I got a lot that shot better than my best Eley but relative to what the best they had seen from various rifles I was not where I would like to be.
Great facility, top notch equipment, excellent technician and I believe they are the main distribution point from which all their shipments go out meaning they have a lot of inventory. I couldn't have been more pleased and will be heading there again as soon as my next rifle arrives.
Steve
Thanks to Joe & Steve:
I was debating sending my rifled action there and pay them to do the testing. (I read they would do that). The problem , was if they clamped the barrel, it would effectively shorten the barrel and increase the stiffness. I don't think the rifle would stay in tune that way. That's why I thought testing without the tuner would still find the best ammo combination. I like the fact, that they will allow the testing of all of their line and I could make up my own mind as to what I wanted to spend. A trip to Mesa, is almost out of the question at this time. I don't know their wait time, until I call them. The Eley test range, is closer, but will only allow testing of Tenex, and the waiting list is very long.
I was debating sending my rifled action there and pay them to do the testing. (I read they would do that). The problem , was if they clamped the barrel, it would effectively shorten the barrel and increase the stiffness. I don't think the rifle would stay in tune that way. That's why I thought testing without the tuner would still find the best ammo combination. I like the fact, that they will allow the testing of all of their line and I could make up my own mind as to what I wanted to spend. A trip to Mesa, is almost out of the question at this time. I don't know their wait time, until I call them. The Eley test range, is closer, but will only allow testing of Tenex, and the waiting list is very long.
tonykharper
Well-known member
Steve,
How many rounds were fired into each group, and how many groups did you shoot to establish a base line?
Tony
Tony,
10 shots into each group unless it became obvious the group was excessively large. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "establish a base line" but we shot 10 shots of one that shot fairly well, then another 10 shot group to verify and sometimes a third depending on how we felt about the batch. We ran through maybe 30 different batches each time, narrowed it down to the 3 or 4 that seemed to have the most promise. Shot those against each other in 10 shot groups. Narrowed it down to the two best and ran a group of each of those against my best Eley. I thought I had some pretty good Eley but it did not group as well as the two best Lapuas. My best Eley was the result of testing 6 machines at 3 different speeds each, narrowing it down to the best machine, ordering a number of batches in that machine and speed then seeing what was available. I got a case but it was two different batches with one shooting better that the other. I thought it was pretty good but I am inclined to think that I may not have ever had a "killer" batch.
The best my gun shot (without tuner, which I believe was a mistake) was around 14mm 10 shot group which was disappointing as they have had some come through there in the 11 - 12 mm range. The gun was a Suhl 150 with a Broughton 4 grove barrel chambered and installed by Gorham. It has a McMillan stock. I had sent the gun to Masterclass stocks to check it, rebed if necessary and clean it up. I also put the heavier firing pin spring in. I'm in the process of having another gun built on the new Turbo V-1 action and will immediately run it down there and test. If I can get something in the 11mm range, I'll buy a couple of cases and shoot, and shoot and shoot.
Steve
10 shots into each group unless it became obvious the group was excessively large. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "establish a base line" but we shot 10 shots of one that shot fairly well, then another 10 shot group to verify and sometimes a third depending on how we felt about the batch. We ran through maybe 30 different batches each time, narrowed it down to the 3 or 4 that seemed to have the most promise. Shot those against each other in 10 shot groups. Narrowed it down to the two best and ran a group of each of those against my best Eley. I thought I had some pretty good Eley but it did not group as well as the two best Lapuas. My best Eley was the result of testing 6 machines at 3 different speeds each, narrowing it down to the best machine, ordering a number of batches in that machine and speed then seeing what was available. I got a case but it was two different batches with one shooting better that the other. I thought it was pretty good but I am inclined to think that I may not have ever had a "killer" batch.
The best my gun shot (without tuner, which I believe was a mistake) was around 14mm 10 shot group which was disappointing as they have had some come through there in the 11 - 12 mm range. The gun was a Suhl 150 with a Broughton 4 grove barrel chambered and installed by Gorham. It has a McMillan stock. I had sent the gun to Masterclass stocks to check it, rebed if necessary and clean it up. I also put the heavier firing pin spring in. I'm in the process of having another gun built on the new Turbo V-1 action and will immediately run it down there and test. If I can get something in the 11mm range, I'll buy a couple of cases and shoot, and shoot and shoot.
Steve
Steve,
Would you kindly consider reporting back here whenever you've had some time outside shooting for score either in a match or practice. I ask this because there is some opinion that the Lapua is not as good in the wind. A few of us have acquired a couple lots of Center-X which show real promise in the quiet, not so good in the wind. Now realizing full well this is not, by any means, the kind of sample that would be large enough, any additional opinion would be helpful.
tonykharper
Well-known member
Steve,
I know there are probably a million ways to test ammo but the one I use when I test is to start with my best ammo. Or at least an ammo I think is my best whatever, it is ammo I have shot many times before. I shoot 15 rounds to foul the barrel. Then I shoot five, 5 shot groups. Whatever that agg is becomes my base line for that testing session. Then I clean the gun, and I mean clean the gun, and start with the first lot I'm testing and I repeat the process. I do this for each lot. Then I measure the groups to see what I have. Most of the time there isn't a significant difference in the aggs. So I test the same lots again in different conditions. I may do this a couple of time if I can. Of course that means by the time I find what works it is normally sold out. But hey that happens. Every once in awhile there will be a lot that just stands out, but it is not often.
Recently I've learned, or at least think I've learned, that shooting ammo out of one brick in a case, can be very different from ammo out of other bricks from the same case. That just drives me crazy. But I believe it is true.
Please let us know of how your testing comes out. Most of us can't make the trip out there to test too often.
Tony
Tim,
I have some data from some matches shot this past year that may give some comparison. I'm not a great shooter but am trying to improve. I've just shot in the monthly matches we have as work and other activities have kept me from practicing. As I continue to shoot this ammo I will report on my findings. I do have enough of my "best" Ely to shoot against this ammo and I'll try and get some data there.
August 26, 2011 Eley ammo Agg 2238 Tied for first in match
January 21, 2012 Eley ammo Agg 2331 Maybe 2nd place?
April 28, 2012 Eley ammo Agg 2031 Third place
May 26,2012 Eley ammo Agg 1963 1st place but only 4 shooters
June 30, 2012 Midas + ammo Agg 2156 2nd place 9 shooters
Nov 24, 2012 Midas + ammo Agg 1794 1st place 11 shooters (Changed to ARA target and new scoring program where we are trying to work out the gliches). Obviously I do need to practice.
Also of note, I shot the matches using Eley ammo above with a J&J Slide and then the Midas without. I didn't think it was helping so I quit using it. When I test the two ammos against each other I'll do it both ways. As I gather more information, if there is any interest, I'll be glad to share it.
Tony,
I am learning as I go. There may be a number of things I have done incorrectly. I've tried to test the ammo under similar conditions for all. I didn't clean perhaps as often as I should but I also did not see any glaring deterioration in the groups at any particular point. I will shoot with the tuner on the next time and I will probably drag the J&J Slide along to see what effect if any it has on groups. The one thing I do appreciate is having a large volume of ammo available. The Eley ammo game was very discouraging. Perhaps that changes with their testing facility at Dan Killough's although I have a hard time imagining them having the volume of inventory that Namo carries. Time will tell.
All the best,
Steve
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I just got back from there yesterday. Had a good day. We tested 3 rifles which made for a very long day. We tested Midas, Center X and SK Rifle Match. In the true spirit of rimfire the medium priced Center X shot better than the Midas in my particular guns and one batch of SK shot real well in one rifle. I would have no hesitation about sending the rifle for
Darrell to test. My only suggestion is to send it for testing right after they get a new shipment so that if you plan on buying multiple cases there is an ample supply of the lot you want.
Dennis
Darrell to test. My only suggestion is to send it for testing right after they get a new shipment so that if you plan on buying multiple cases there is an ample supply of the lot you want.
Dennis
Type of rest
My main concern, is how they mount or clamp the rifle or action. If they clamp the barrel only, then I need to ship the complete rifle, then they can clamp the stock. I don't feel that a clamped barrel will shoot the same as a stocked action. If they clamp the action, then I would be safe in shipping just the barreled action, but I question how they could do that and feed ammo. Questions, Questions. Of course, I would feel more comfortable being there, but that's not possible now.
My main concern, is how they mount or clamp the rifle or action. If they clamp the barrel only, then I need to ship the complete rifle, then they can clamp the stock. I don't feel that a clamped barrel will shoot the same as a stocked action. If they clamp the action, then I would be safe in shipping just the barreled action, but I question how they could do that and feed ammo. Questions, Questions. Of course, I would feel more comfortable being there, but that's not possible now.
All of the testing we did was with the rifles in the stocks and the stocks clamped down in a fixture. Their universal fixture is a steel u shaped channel about 5 inches wide that rides on linear bearings. There is a piece of hard rubber in the bottom of the channel that the forearm sits on and there are rubber clamps that come in from the sides that can be changed around to fit your particular rifle. The entire rear of the rifle floats, only the forearm is in the fixture, nothing touches the barrel. He does have fixtures to test just a barreled action if you prefer but I presume most BR shooters test with the rifle still in the stock as I did.
Dennis
Dennis
Dennis,
What was the best 10 shot group you got in mm? Did you find your rifle would do it consistently? Thank you.
Steve
T
Tinkerbellsgirl
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charlesasmith
New member
charlesasmith
New member
Chambering for Lapua ammo.
I read on rimfireaccuracy.com that a different reamer or length of chamber is different when setting up for Lapua ammo.
Chuck
I read on rimfireaccuracy.com that a different reamer or length of chamber is different when setting up for Lapua ammo.
Chuck