Fire Forming Business

L

Lapuamag

Guest
Hi,
Im looking for a little bit of impute from you guys

Myself and a group of other students here in the Gunsmithing program here at TSJC a going to be starting a small business Fire forming brass through our reloading class that speedy is teaching.

What i would like to know from you is what cases would you like to see us putting out.

Here is a short list of cases that we had been talking about but feel free to add any cases that you would like to see.

6mm PPC
6mm Ackley (6mm rem)
22-250 Ackley
280 Ackley

What we would also like to know is what extent would you like the brass to be prepped, Whether the full speedy treatment or just next turned, or just left at fire formed.

Any other impute you might have for us please feel free to let me know

Thanks
Nathan
 
for me it would stop ...

at neck turning .... it seems to me that it is best to fireform the brass in the chamber where it is going to be used.... I have three different barrels in 6 PPC and I fireform for each one on an individual basis ....

don't know maybe I am overkilling the situation but it sure seems that I want the brass conforming to the chamber and I just don't think all the chambers are the same ..... but then again I am new to this game so what do I know??
 
what we are planning on doing is using a lighter charge where it leaves the corners slightly radiused and slightly undersized, so that the brass will be to about a 90% or so state so that when you get it you should be able to run it through your die and load it in your chamber, then you should be good to go.
 
I am not the most experienced guy either, but here is a solution offered most humbly (potentially) to help your fireforming business.
You will find that there are a LOT of PPC reamers out there and fireforming them in one type of chamber and then transferring them to another may not work or be safe.
BUT, if you are planning a gunsmithing business it could be a service you offer to your clients for whom you are chambering barrels, and making custom dies. I know I would be much more inclined to pay for a service like that. You could have your token 30br fireforming barrel chambered with the same reamer as your customer, prep, neck turn, and fireform them, and then give the customer the finished product to then maximize the useful life of their brand new barrel.
I don't know where headspace may come into play, but with the tolerances you are able to hold I doubt there would be much of a problem.
The tough part about the ackley improved rounds is that often you can learn a lot about the load a gun likes as you are fireforming, and again you may run into the different reamer/headspace issue.
I wish you the best in your endeavor.
It's great to see some new ideas out there.
Mike
 
What does The Speedster think of this idea'r? It's perty hard to find "better" input than that of Senor Gonzales hissownself.......

al
 
Hes the one who suggested it, we're just running with it with his support
 
cooldealdude.....

If I were in the market for custom-formed Ackley brass I'd be looking for something made in such a way that the fired cases would be as long as unfired. Shorten up the gapspace, make it easier to keep up with the carbon ring.

There's a class project for ya!

Best of luck with your endeavor.

:)

al
 
I have been forming brass for the k hornet and the ackley bee with hornady forming dies.
you need to send a print of the desired cartridge to the custom shop.
the process uses water and can be a bit messy but there are fixes for this.
You can pm me if you want more info.
these things work.

Chuck.
 
there is a market for the ppc and 6mmbr cases also the dasher.
The one thing that has to be done is full length size in a small base die.
Specs must be supplied by the person ordering the brass.
Trim length is also important . Reamers are different.
 
For the PPC....fireform it to the standard JGS1045 chamber spec. Most chambers will accept this. Market it for this chamber only. Sure, it won't cover all but it will do for most. Second, prep it....flashholes and primer pockets. Maybe give it a fireforming without neckturning as more people are using different than the standard .262nk.

Hovis
 
Just at first blush

I would think you would be better to hydraulically form them which seem to be the coming thing. I also think that one's personally full length die is the determining factor in the end, not the chamber, so as long as cases are close to the chamber, they will be fine. I am not one who believes that chambers are "Sacred". I believe the bullet, powder, primer combination that works is the "Sacred" part. Unless one's chamber and full-length die are a perfect match but then we all know that there are no two reamers exactly the same, don't we?

The other factor is making sure the shoulders and necks are as soft as they should be when forming. Every step of prep that moves the brass makes it harder, eh.
 
Tip

Many of us fire our cases in a chamber with a .269 neck. What comes out is a Factory lapua 6PPC, with the shoulder exactly where it is supposed tobe..

We use a 22 caliber bullet, simply load the 220 Russian with 133, and fire it in the 6PPC barrel.

BUT I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT YOU DO THIS!!. Let me say again. I DO NOT RECOMMEND YOU DO THIS!! I have a controled inviroment with a bullet trap. If you have to go to a range to do the actual firing, here is what you do.

Take a 22 caliber barrel, and put a minimum spec 22 ppc chamber in it. Then, run a .269 chucking reamer into the neck portion of that chamber. What you then have is a 22 PPC chamber with a .269 neck.

Now you can chamber the loaded 220 Russian into that chamber, and safely fire it at the range without fear of the bullets going over the burm. What will come out is a fully formed 6PPC case, ready to final expand to fit your particular neck turning mandrel. Or, if it goes in a non neck turned chamber, (.273 neck), just full length size, seat a bullet, and fire.

We do the same thing in making a 30BR. I take a 6BR barrel, and ream the neck out to .330. I then load a 6BR with a standard load and bullet, and fire. What comes out is a perfectly formed 30BR case, ready for final expansion to fit your neck turning mandrel, and neck turning.

I would not be telling you any of this, but I know you are well supervised by an experienced master.

As for reamer sizes, just tell Dave Kiff you want the body to be a minimum spec body on the reamer, and and what comes out will go into any chamber after full length sizing.

Personally, I think there might be a bigger market for Ackley Improved. All you do is load the parent round, and fire in the Ackley Chamber. There might be a market for those who don't like having to go to the range to do it, and they might be willing to pay the cost of materials and time involved. ..........jackie
 
Last edited:
I would NOT like 6PPC because there are about a gozillion different reamer configs for 6PPC and I am confident that yours wouldn't match mine.
PS
280 Ackley is already available commercially.
Ted
 
One slight variation on the .22 bullet down a 6mm bore (that I use), is to expand and turn the neck to .010 at .22 caliber, and then load up to the base of the neck with 322 and seat a .22 cal. 55 gr. boat tail (seats straight with a 6PPC seater) By turning a .22 cal., before fire forming, the ID of the fire formed neck is larger, requiring less expansion before final turning, at 6mm, for my .262 neck chamber. This results in very straight cases for their first 6mm firing.
 
Inventors Wanted ...

What we need is an apparatus that can be screwed onto an old barrel with our favorite 6PPC chambering with the capability of being fired in the back yard or garage. Anyone interested in offering a new fire forming product to potential customers ??? Butch, how about you, or Jackie ??? You both have business that could probably produce it. Art :)
 
abintx said:
What we need is an apparatus that can be screwed onto an old barrel with our favorite 6PPC chambering with the capability of being fired in the back yard or garage. Anyone interested in offering a new fire forming product to potential customers ??? Butch, how about you, or Jackie ??? You both have business that could probably produce it. Art :)
Click to expand...

why?
 
alinwa said:
why?
Click to expand...

Alinwa I can think of a lot of reasons, but here are a few: 1) so that those of us who don't have easy access to a range and only get to shoot in matches can have new brass ready to go on Saturday morning; 2) so that those of us who don't have the time to change barrels when we do go to the range on the rare occasion can avoid putting the extra rounds down our new barrel; and, 3) so that those of us that do have a dedicated fireforming barrel can avoid the hassle of changing barrels every time we need new brass.

So, here's my small contribution to the invention of this device: I think the device should include a sound reducing contraption that can be opened and closed with a ballistic gel (or other bullet trapping material) in the bottom that has barrel vise mounted inside; you would need a cap that performed the function of the action to go on the chamber end of the barrel; and, you would need the ability to "trigger" the firing pin contained in the cap while the top of the contraption is closed.

Doesn't sound that complicated.

Ryan
 
Last edited:
Al ...

alinwa said:
why?
Click to expand...

1. Barrel preservation (for matches).
2. Backyard range absence.
3. Nonexistent dedicated fire forming rig.
4. Improve the Small Business economy.
5. Add a pragmatic tool to the inventory.
 
Lapuamag said:
Hi,
Im looking for a little bit of input from you guys.

Any other input you might have for us please feel free to let me know

Thanks
Nathan
Click to expand...

This may not be a get rich quick idea but there may be a market for your product. I know that you could get experience chambering non-standard stuff. Put an add in the add section of this web-site with prices. Check with Wilbur about add prices and his ideas. You need to jump into this thing seriously or forget it.

Concho Bill
 
Well, OK all....... I'm not disagreeing, just wondering 'why?'

It takes me about 10min to put on a ff barrel and I can fire it thru a roll of insulation into the dirt. I've also poked the barrel through some rubber flaps and fired into a hole in the floor, inside. The PTI Gunsmithing program has an inside "testfiring pit" that works double for fireforming. (This is all incidental to the "screw on firing device" but it's been mentioned ;) )

To me it just seems that the most convenient (and legal) firing device is your rifle's action.


Now "add a pragmatic tool" I can GET WITH!!! :D

LOL


al
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top