Eureka......I Think I Found It!!

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
For those of you that followed my saga with that 7MM barrel that just would not shoot, I think I have the answer.
In the other thread, I finally cut 2 inches off of it and it suddenly started shooting like a Benchrest Rifle.

I didn't pay too much attention to the 2 inch piece I parted off, it wasn't that clean, as I was so disgusted with it the first go around I just took it off without cleaning it that well. Heck, I almost gave it away.

Yesterday eavning, Dan Blair came by my shop, and we were talking about it, that piece was still laying on the headstock of the Lathe.

He saw something. He then showed me. A distinct shadow about 3/4 inches long, just inside the muzzle. I cleaned the drop real good, and it would not disappear. You can easily feel it with a QTip.

Look at the picture. You can plainly see it. It's a linear flaw, a bad spot.

Keep in mind, I cut the usual 1inch from the muzzle end when I first chambered this Barrel.. It shot terrible. Apparently, cutting 2 inches off got rid of what ever that is.

Not sure what this tells us. Except take a good look into the end of a new barrel if it shoots like cr-p.

I might send this back to the manufacturer and see what they think.

I'm happy. Mystery solved, the Rifle shoots great. For someone without my resources, I'm not sure there is an answer.



http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19741&stc=1&d=1500400867
 

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That looks like a "squiggle" from the bore reamer when the barrel was made. When the bore reamer exits the barrel, it loses it's self pilot and can do funny things. Sometimes cutting deep enough that the rifling wont remove the defect when the grooves are cut. Some barrel makers ream the blanks from muzzle to breech, and others vice versa.
 
James Lederer said:
That looks like a "squiggle" from the bore reamer when the barrel was made. When the bore reamer exits the barrel, it loses it's self pilot and can do funny things. Sometimes cutting deep enough that the rifling wont remove the defect when the grooves are cut. Some barrel makers ream the blanks from muzzle to breech, and others vice versa.
Click to expand...

James, after work today, I took some JB compound and really got after that drop. I then cleaned it with Sweets, making sure there was absolutely nothing in that piece but Steel.

The spot now has a distinct "frosted" look, different from the rest of the bore, about 5/8 inch long.
 
jackie schmidt said:
James, after work today, I took some JB compound and really got after that drop. I then cleaned it with Sweets, making sure there was absolutely nothing in that piece but Steel.

The spot now has a distinct "frosted" look, different from the rest of the bore, about 5/8 inch long.
Click to expand...

Do you suppose you could have seen that if you had used a bore scope early on?
 
I think that someone owes you a barrel. That should not have made it through quality control. I wonder if it could have been felt using a snug lead slug or cast lap?
 
Thus lies in Jackie's comment

"For someone without my resources, I'm not sure there is an answer."

The reason I took a long hard look at this sport and have decided to step away from trying to be serious/competitive in the game.

My new Yamaha Cruiser is by far cheaper to run. Just put fuel in and turn the key and go. No practice needed or expensive barrels, bullets, or powder.

Glad you were able to solve the mystery of the 7mm that just would not shoot.

Calvin
 
jackie schmidt said:
For those of you that followed my saga with that 7MM barrel that just would not shoot, I think I have the answer.
In the other thread, I finally cut 2 inches off of it and it suddenly started shooting like a Benchrest Rifle.

I didn't pay too much attention to the 2 inch piece I parted off, it wasn't that clean, as I was so disgusted with it the first go around I just took it off without cleaning it that well. Heck, I almost gave it away.

Yesterday eavning, Dan Blair came by my shop, and we were talking about it, that piece was still laying on the headstock of the Lathe.

He saw something. He then showed me. A distinct shadow about 3/4 inches long, just inside the muzzle. I cleaned the drop real good, and it would not disappear. You can easily feel it with a QTip.

Look at the picture. You can plainly see it. It's a linear flaw, a bad spot.

Keep in mind, I cut the usual 1inch from the muzzle end when I first chambered this Barrel.. It shot terrible. Apparently, cutting 2 inches off got rid of what ever that is.

Not sure what this tells us. Except take a good look into the end of a new barrel if it shoots like cr-p.

I might send this back to the manufacturer and see what they think.

I'm happy. Mystery solved, the Rifle shoots great. For someone without my resources, I'm not sure there is an answer.



http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=19741&stc=1&d=1500400867
Click to expand...




Which goes to prove a point I made a long time ago. A shooter who has a Lathe and can do his own machine work, has a distinct advantage in this Sport.

Glenn
 
To respond to Calvin's quote, I've had both motorcycles and competition rifles and I've had reasons to step away from both. I find that rifles in the safe keep better than bikes in the garage. Bikes not ridden caused me more worry than guns not shot. To each his own, however.

I could have shot a 2-day match last weekend, but decided to stay home and putz. It was nice, and I needed the rest.

I have an F-class rifle that I've invested a lot in and am not happy with it. I am thinking the barrel is just not stout enough for it's 30 inch length. I am planning to have 2 inches taken off. However, there's no hurry. It's doing just fine in the safe.
 
They will probably tell you that you cleaned it improperly and it was fine when it was manufactured. But we can sell you another one.
Joe Hynes
 
I recently

Had the good fortune of having a barrel replaced by a maker because the barrel was out of their specs, they said so the "good Ones" will make things right. Not all of them do however.

I have had barrels that have what I think are rough spots in them where fouling accumulates. No amount of polishing I have tried will take it out. I believe the rough spots to be inherent in the metal the barrels are made from. The barrels shoot well when they are not fouled but the accuracy does go away readily.

Pete
 
adamsgt said:
Do you suppose you could have seen that if you had used a bore scope early on?
Click to expand...

Unless there is some trick photography involved here, the presumed culprit is right at the end of the barrel and very visible to the naked eye. Now if it were down further in the barrel it would have been harder to find and probably would not have been the issue at all. Seems a very normal inspection of the barrel when cutting the crown or cleaning, would have made that spot a point of concern. In this case, what would someone's resources, have to do with something someone else noticed? Barrels are recrowned with satisfactory results every day.

It would be very interesting to analyze these problem barrels with high speed cameras, which btw are becoming more accessible to the masses these days.

The question remains for inquiring minds, is, was the blemish really the issue or was it the crown? Jus-sayin...:confused:
 
Jackie

I had a 30 caliber Kreiger barrel that I chambered up and it wouldn't shoot under .3" with any load I tried. Before I chambered it, I noticed some out-of-roundness in the grooves with my dial indicator. I called Kreiger, and they asked me to return the barrel. They replaced the barrel, and the new barrel shot fine.

Still being bothered about loosing several hours of fitting and chambering time, and paying return shipping, I called them and asked for the old barrel back. I told them it should at least make a good hunting barrel. They agreed to send it back. About a year later I cut the chamber off and chucked the barrel up in the lathe. With the 2" removed, it indicated real nice. I decided to cut a new match chamber in it and try it on the bench gun again. It responded with an .082" group during a Raton match.

Michael
 
mturner said:
I had a 30 caliber Kreiger barrel that I chambered up and it wouldn't shoot under .3" with any load I tried. Before I chambered it, I noticed some out-of-roundness in the grooves with my dial indicator. I called Kreiger, and they asked me to return the barrel. They replaced the barrel, and the new barrel shot fine.

Still being bothered about loosing several hours of fitting and chambering time, and paying return shipping, I called them and asked for the old barrel back. I told them it should at least make a good hunting barrel. They agreed to send it back. About a year later I cut the chamber off and chucked the barrel up in the lathe. With the 2" removed, it indicated real nice. I decided to cut a new match chamber in it and try it on the bench gun again. It responded with an .082" group during a Raton match.

Michael
Click to expand...

Was the chamber end were the out of round was located?

JR
 
Bad Barrels

mturner said:
I had a 30 caliber Kreiger barrel that I chambered up and it wouldn't shoot under .3" with any load I tried. Before I chambered it, I noticed some out-of-roundness in the grooves with my dial indicator. I called Kreiger, and they asked me to return the barrel. They replaced the barrel, and the new barrel shot fine.

Still being bothered about loosing several hours of fitting and chambering time, and paying return shipping, I called them and asked for the old barrel back. I told them it should at least make a good hunting barrel. They agreed to send it back. About a year later I cut the chamber off and chucked the barrel up in the lathe. With the 2" removed, it indicated real nice. I decided to cut a new match chamber in it and try it on the bench gun again. It responded with an .082" group during a Raton match.

Michael
Click to expand...

Yup.......... same old story......... we all should look at barrels carefully with bore scope before cutting......... maybe even slugging........ usually there is a reason why a barrel won`t perform..........and most of the time the maker will stand behind his product and replace.... hopefully before chambering and threading and crowning......
bill
 
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Bill, I can't really say that I have ever had a bad Krieger. Granted, some don't shoot quite as well as others, but that is as much of a reflection on my load combination as anything. If a barrel will not shoot my load, I'm not going to spend a lot of Range Time hoping it will shoot something else.

I am very pleased with this 7mm barrel now. I think it shoots about as well as you could ask a Rifle like this to shoot. It will put 5 shots inside of .350 at 200 yards, and 5 shots inside 1 1/2 inches at 600. And that's with. 180 grn bullet and darned near 2850 fps.

That will get the job done in the Format in which I initially built this Rifle to compete.
 
Bad Barrels......

jackie schmidt said:
Bill, I can't really say that I have ever had a bad Krieger. Granted, some don't shoot quite as well as others, but that is as much of a reflection on my load combination as anything. If a barrel will not shoot my load, I'm not going to spend a lot of Range Time hoping it will shoot something else.

I am very pleased with this 7mm barrel now. I think it shoots about as well as you could ask a Rifle like this to shoot. It will put 5 shots inside of .350 at 200 yards, and 5 shots inside 1 1/2 inches at 600. And that's with. 180 grn bullet and darned near 2850 fps.

That will get the job done in the Format in which I initially built this Rifle to compete.
Click to expand...


Jackie........ now that you have had a bad barrel.....as most of us have.... it may be worth a careful inspection before time,effort and component exspense is exhausted...... esp. if building as you say to compete.........
bill
 
Yes

Jerry Reisdorff said:
Was the chamber end were the out of round was located?

JR
Click to expand...

It was the chamber end. My guess was that it wouldn't shoot before I ever cut the chamber, but a lot of times a barrel manufacturer will just say "go ahead and try it, you just might be surprised". The out-of-roundness was .0005" on two adjacent grooves. Had they been opposing grooves, I believe it would have shot fine, but being next to each other, they caused the bullet to be deformed in an out-of-balance manner.

Michael
 
Jackie

jackie schmidt said:
Bill, I can't really say that I have ever had a bad Krieger. Granted, some don't shoot quite as well as others, but that is as much of a reflection on my load combination as anything. If a barrel will not shoot my load, I'm not going to spend a lot of Range Time hoping it will shoot something else.

I am very pleased with this 7mm barrel now. I think it shoots about as well as you could ask a Rifle like this to shoot. It will put 5 shots inside of .350 at 200 yards, and 5 shots inside 1 1/2 inches at 600. And that's with. 180 grn bullet and darned near 2850 fps.

That will get the job done in the Format in which I initially built this Rifle to compete.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the gun is either too heavy for the VFS game, or won't meet the rules for some reason. But if it would meet the rules, it just shows you how a 180gr bullet at 2850 fps would make an incredible and hard to beat short range score gun. Even though the 30BR is incredibly accurate, the wind can kick it pretty hard. Your new rifle kicks the wind back.

Michael
 
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