DanB's Awesome Pellet Air Gauging Device

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Dave Shattuck

Guest
As most of you who read this forum must realize by now, Mr. B is quite the guy to know. He is constantly leading us down a road to unbelievable better accuracy, sometimes bending the traditions way more than the rest of us could ever get our heads around without him. And so it goes with his latest group of concepts.

As soon as Dan mentioned he was working on designing an Air Gauging devise for measuring pellet head sizes, I had no doubt that I wanted one. Then, after seeing his first series of test results at one of our Indoor matches where he was shooting absolutely huge X-counts - like in the 20's - and dropping only one point on his first shot over the course of 3 cards, I placed my order. Of course, we all know that our individual results may vary.

I haven't yet to have enough range-time after sorting to truly give any exacting numbers, but from what I'm seeing in the shop, I have no doubt the results will be outstanding to say the least.

The way the gauge works: after connecting it to an air supply, the air is first fed through a small inline filter before running through a series of two in-line regulators. I set mine first regulator to bring the initial pressure down to 40 PSI, then the second to a very constant 30 PSI. From there the feed goes through a pin dial in order to allow for fine-tuning it even further before finally feeding into a large dial indicator which is the nuts and bolts of the whole system as this is where you do your actual measuring. This dial is 4" in diameter and reads in increments of between 0 and 15 PSI and sits atop the actual brass die used for gauging the pellets head. Did I mention that this entire device is designed to screw into a reloading press? Oh, and another thing, you can order different size dies of both caliber size and head size per caliber if you wish. I started out with one die for .177 caliber which was on the larger side and better for doing things like CPH's, plus one in .22 caliber for measuring AA 16.1's, but almost immediately turned around and ordered a second set for each caliber one step smaller so as to be able to expand out and cover just about anything in either caliber. That is, unless I move up to owning a .25 caliber Unlimited Class gun someday, which is on my list.

I usually try to measure the bulk of my pellets at a range of between 7 to 8 PSI on the large dial indicator, and by doing so will find several that may fall as low as 3 or 4, or as high as 12 PSI. That's a good, workable range!

What you are doing is sorting your pellets into similar, if not exacting head sizes, which will better allow you to determine what sized pellet your barrel prefers. When I was sorting my JSB 8.4's I found that out of a tin of 500 about 90% landed in the 8 or 9 PSI range, with the rest measuring only 2 or 3 PSI above or below. But, once I switched over to measuring a group of CPH's that I had already worked up using my "old method", I found that the majority landed between 6 and 7 PSI with a low of 4, but astoundingly was looking at just as many pegging out the needle at somewhere above 15 PSI, meaning that those heads were extremely large even though they had sorted before as being quite acceptable. See what I mean about feeling more confident now because of head sorting than when I was just using my tried-and-true method that I'd been doing for years. I guess it's a case of either "a little knowledge can be dangerous", or, "what you don't know won't, or can, hurt you".

All you will need to get started is a small shop-sized air compressor, one capable of maintaining a minimum of ±55 PSI, and a reloading press. What I am using for a press is an old RCBS Rockchucker that for the past 20 years has been doing nothing but sitting in a corner collecting dust and taking up room.

The only other thing that needs to be done before getting started is to wash and weigh your pellets, not necessarily in that order. And, once I get a little more familiar with what I'm doing, I'm gonna try skipping the weighing to see what happens.

Doing the work is a bit on the tedious side as this takes at least half again longer than weighing pellets. And the unit is kind of pricy, but no more so than that of a decent scope, or about half (or less) of what a case of good quality rimfire ammo costs. Even still, the fact that any gun will never be any better than the pellets we feed through them makes this device extremely affordable in every way.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some pellets that need sorting.

That's my 2¢ worth, but what do I know.

Dave Shattuck
 
Send DanB a PM and he'll get back to you with all the details.
 
Here is a video that shows the air gauge in use.
Sorting pellets with it is about as fast as weighing them with a digital scale. The gauge can be set up to read in increments as small as .00002".
$650, plus shipping, is my price for one caliber. $725 for two calibers. Included is everything needed except an air compressor and RCBS reloading press.
Here is what is included:
1. Air gauge
2. Caliber specific shell holder
3. One sub die per caliber
4. 3 calibration masters in the shape of a pellet for each caliber
I believe it is the fastest and most precise way to sort pellets by head size.
Dan
 
An interesting thing I discovered when using the gauge is that the stated head size on the JSB tin has no real meaning. I bought some 4.53 head size exacts from England, the actual size was 4.51. All of my AA 8.4s that state a head size of 4.51 are actually 4.52. The AA 4.52s are actually 4.51.
I found the same discrepancies with H&N barracudas regarding head size.
Dan
 
Very interesting Dan, watched the vid and saw the wild discrepancies that showed up, WOW. Tried weight sort, digital scales, too much dancing around, sizing dies seem to be more of a skirt function than head ( dies from the early 80's). Interesting comment on the label vs product - almost like rimfire.
Thanks for your attention to details in our fledgling sport. Chris
 
Dave - Ever tried a digital indicator system?

Was following up on a dial type head measurement system. Have you ever tried one? Would it not be as accurate as DanB's air gauging setup?

Thanks,

Chuck
 
Chuck,

Other than for using a standard set of Calipers, I've never tried any dial sizing systems, so can't answer that. But I will say this: this system is a whole lot faster than handling both the individual pellets while at the same time trying to use a set of calipers.

Given the fact that what you're doing is subjecting just the pellets head to a certain amount of low pressure air flow, then measuring the resistance, I doubt very much there is a more accurate method for achieving head size consistency.

The Airgauging system isn't designed to tell you exact what the head size is unless you take a few of those already sorted pellets, then measure what their sizes are. All the rest that fall within that same back pressure will have the exact same head size. And once you've figured that out you can sort all day long knowing that you are separating your pellets into exact sizes one after the next. That is, so long as you are sorting the same Lot of pellets. If a different Lot is started causing any adjustments to be made to the unit, then the back-pressure will indicate something different. But, that hasn't been any problem for me yet, and I've gone back and forth between sorting .177's in 8.4, 10.4 and 13.4, then switching over to sorting .22's in 13.4, 16, 18.1 and 25's, then back without issue. It's all a matter of getting use to what you're working with, and I still thinks it's the only way to go.

Don't over think what I've said above because it really is about as simple a method as you can find for guaranteeing pellet to pellet consistency. And it's at lease as fast as weighing pellets once you're set up.

Dave
 
The Airgauging system isn't designed to tell you exact what the head size is unless you take a few of those already sorted pellets, then measure what their sizes are. All the rest that fall within that same back pressure will have the exact same head size. And once you've figured that out you can sort all day long knowing that you are separating your pellets into exact sizes one after the next.

Dave

Dan,
Couldn't you make a set of brass plugs (fake pellets) of known sizes and use them to "calibrate" the system so that you would know the actual size of the pellet head? That of course assumes that you need to know the actual size of the pellet head.
Gary Palmer
 
Calibration Pellets

Dan normally supplies three stainless steel calibration pellets that he machines. I believe the tolerence on these are .001 inches. He is looking at other calibration pellet options. Vermont Gage manufactures gauge pins with tolerance to .0002 inches and these might be machined or ground to shape and length. Vermont Gage might just manufacture the calibration pellets, but they would be very expensive without a large order...like maybe $100 each. Meyers makes a gauge pin with tolerance to .00002 and these pins are even more expensive. Meyers is unlikely to make pellets without a VERY large order.

Air compression behind the pellet within the air gauge cylinder is dependent on cross section area of the pellet and probably, to a lesser extent, the contour or shape of the pellet. The shape of the calibration pellet might need to match to get an accurate measurement. Insertion depth exposes more or less of a pellet's shape within the cylinder so calibration pellet length might need to match as well.

All this points to a large collection of expensive calibration pellets that you don't need if you're just air gauging your own pellets. I don't even own .22 calibration pellets. Don't need them. I just sort pellets relative to each other and use the size that shoots best. Where calibration pellets are going to be worth it is when enough air gauging shooters are willing to share or sell sized pellets that they're not going to use. Say Mark and I use the same Air Arms 16 grain pellets, but my choked barrel likes small diameter heads and Mark's barrel likes large diameter heads. I'm new to this Benchrest sport and don't have a feeling for how competitive/cutthroat it is. But if we both have measured pellets each other needs, I see a trade coming. All we need are those pesky calibration pellets.

Steve
 
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ted

How can I contact Dan B I would like to buy a unit?? thanks
 
Ted

Send him a PM. Either that or he'll respond with his contact info.

Pete,

I truly think so. In fact, since I've started gauging I now only weight sort the lighter 8.4's as a tenth of a grain difference there means a whole lot more than it does when sorting anything heavier.
By the time you reach anything in the .177 Monsters (13.4) or .22's (13.4 ~ 25.4) I feel weighing is done only to satisfy the fact that you've done all you could, but is really more of a waste of time.
Consequently, I strongly feel that gauging does so much more across the spectrum as you are measuring the uniformity of the pellet heads, and not just putting anything that weighs the same in the same pile. But, then again, I don't own anything bigger than a .22 so have no experience with 25's and beyond, but feel the same principles will hold true there as well.
When I started shooting AGBR I wanted to do all that I could to be the best that I could be (kind of sounds like a commercial). I had been reading Airgun World magazine and saw a lot of references to weighing and rolling pellets there. It seemed logical at the time, so I followed suit and started Weigh and Roll my pellets, and yes, either or both did make an obvious difference. The weighing did the obvious, and the rolling would weed out any pellets with deformed or nicked skirts. But then on a post I think it was Bob Z who asked about how you would know if the pellets were consistent other than by weight and where they rolled to, and how much did that really mean if you don't know things like the consistency between head sizes and head to skirt? It got me to thinking about how necessary each step was, but with no alternative I just kept on keeping on, that is until Dan came along with his offering
Once I saw Dan B's Air Gauging system it made so much sense. I kept doing both the weighing and rolling for a while, but shortly after the rolling stopped, and just this summer during practice sessions I started experimenting with whether weighing really does enough to justify doing it. So far I haven't noticed a difference between weighed and unweighed, but, keep in mind, I'm still weighing everything for competition and feel it is absolutely necessary when shooting the lighter pellets.
Of course, that was until the Thomas came along. I have had the opportunity to shoot 12 targets with a Thomas while shooting untouched, straight from the tin pellets, and have shot the best 12 target Agg one could ever hope for: a 750-56x followed by a 749-56x, so what does that tell you.

Dave
 
Thanks Dave

Ted

Send him a PM. Either that or he'll respond with his contact info.

Pete,

I truly think so. In fact, since I've started gauging I now only weight sort the lighter 8.4's as a tenth of a grain difference there means a whole lot more than it does when sorting anything heavier.
By the time you reach anything in the .177 Monsters (13.4) or .22's (13.4 ~ 25.4) I feel weighing is done only to satisfy the fact that you've done all you could, but is really more of a waste of time.
Consequently, I strongly feel that gauging does so much more across the spectrum as you are measuring the uniformity of the pellet heads, and not just putting anything that weighs the same in the same pile. But, then again, I don't own anything bigger than a .22 so have no experience with 25's and beyond, but feel the same principles will hold true there as well.
When I started shooting AGBR I wanted to do all that I could to be the best that I could be (kind of sounds like a commercial). I had been reading Airgun World magazine and saw a lot of references to weighing and rolling pellets there. It seemed logical at the time, so I followed suit and started Weigh and Roll my pellets, and yes, either or both did make an obvious difference. The weighing did the obvious, and the rolling would weed out any pellets with deformed or nicked skirts. But then on a post I think it was Bob Z who asked about how you would know if the pellets were consistent other than by weight and where they rolled to, and how much did that really mean if you don't know things like the consistency between head sizes and head to skirt? It got me to thinking about how necessary each step was, but with no alternative I just kept on keeping on, that is until Dan came along with his offering
Once I saw Dan B's Air Gauging system it made so much sense. I kept doing both the weighing and rolling for a while, but shortly after the rolling stopped, and just this summer during practice sessions I started experimenting with whether weighing really does enough to justify doing it. So far I haven't noticed a difference between weighed and unweighed, but, keep in mind, I'm still weighing everything for competition and feel it is absolutely necessary when shooting the lighter pellets.
Of course, that was until the Thomas came along. I have had the opportunity to shoot 12 targets with a Thomas while shooting untouched, straight from the tin pellets, and have shot the best 12 target Agg one could ever hope for: a 750-56x followed by a 749-56x, so what does that tell you.

Dave


Thanks so much for the great explanation. That was certainly what I was looking for. Regarding Thomas and that leap, I can only suppose a great system will forgive a few minor issues. I have come to believe a great barrel will forgive many if not most of the other niggly things that tend to hamper accuracy. Add a flawless propulsion system to the great barrel and one is "Home", so to speak. I think this applies to any rifle system, regardless of the propulsion system. A hummer barrel will forgive a lot of sins. I'm suspecting a flawless propulsion system may be in the same category.

Pete
 
Accuracy Gain

Pete...the gain in accuracy depends on the barrel and pellets. Paul says he doesn't regularly air gauge and he holds the indoor record I believe. There's numerous YouTube videos showing sized pellets starting to corkscrew when the head size gets too big. It just depends.

Ted...to contact DanB, click his name in the post about 9 or 10 entries up and it will show one of his email addresses.

Steve
 
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Dan B PM box

Dan B's private message box is full and will not take anymore messages about his sizing setup until he clears some of his private messages.:(
 
Pelltet Sizing Die

Hi ALL, Have any of you used from the UK, that Sizing die they sell? 20 tapered reamed holes you dump handful of pellets in. Shake, and they fall into tapered hole, then you PUSH with a rod through and the head and skirt are supposed to be ALL sized to the size hole you have ordered? Saw it used on YouTube video and would be faster than weighing and if you get the dimension size correct FOR YOUR GUN, in theory seem to work?? Tester on Video said shots consistent with pellets sized this way. Listed shipped at 29 Pounds so near $50?? Anyone have thoughts or knowledge?........Thanks........Carl
 
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