Crosshairs moving up after the shot

M

Markhor

New member
I am a new Benchrest shooter. I am having a tough time getting my rifle back on target after it recoils in the bags. I am shooting a Bat 6PPc, my front rest is a Sinclair competition BR model, the rear bag is Minigater with heavy sand in the body and play sand in the ears. The front bag has play sand. To get the crosshairs on the target, I have to lift up the front rest quite a bit. I make sure the rifle is completely settled in the bags, I slide it back and forth a few times to make sure. Once the shot goes off and I push the rifle forward with my shoulder to rest stop, I notice that the crosshairs have moved quite a ways up. I have to move the front rest center post down to get everything back on target, moving the speed screw is not enough.
Next shot it does the same thing. It's driving me nuts. Do I need a shorter rear bag? How can I adjust both front and rear rest where the rifle comes back to near where I let the first shot off.
Can someone please let me know what I am doing wrong and how to fix this.

Thanks,
Ed
 
Could be a number of things. Most likely is you need to pack your rear bag before starting. Slam it down on the bench a few times, until it makes that "I'm flat" sound. Now push it into position, rather than lifting it.

After doing that, I actually fluff it a bit by squeezing a very small amount, but see if the just packing/flattening works before trying any "fluffing."

Also, squeezing the rear bag with your non-trigger hand is an old, accepted way of shooting. This works the other way; instead of starting with a packed bag, you restore the "just set it down" height by squeezing. It is also a hell of a lot faster way to get back on target...
 
Ed, try spreading the ears a bit, putting the butt down between them, giving the butt a couple of firm smacks down into them.
 
Thanks Gentelmen, I will give this a try. I will slam the bag down to settle it, i want to avoid getting into squeezing the bag habit, I know a lot of guys shoot successfully with this method. I will push the bags down in the ears, I am currently not doing this, I sort off let the stock sit on the ears.

Ed
 
One of two - you're gonna have to do some minor aiming with the rear bag (squeezing) or get one of those joystick rests. You need to be able to shoot five shots in 15 seconds or faster. Be advised that 1/8 inch aim error ain't squat in a two inch wind.
 
I didn't get that you were bag squeezing.

So, you can't push the rifle forward enough to get back on target? Perhaps you should set up so that all your vertical, by virtue of sliding the stock forward and back, is up.

I should stop running my mouth. I had the same problem early on, but I'm either twisting knobs or driving a joystick.
 
If you read my post, I am currently not squizzing the bag and don't want start doing that. I am trying to figure out why the crosshairs move up so much. looking for insight into how folks are setting up their rifle in the bag so that it comes straight back close to the aiming point

Ed
 
The base of the rear bag need to be packed firmly enough so that it doesn´t settle from the recoil force. The stock must compleatly bottom out between the ears as well, othervise your POA will climb from shot to shot.

Height of the front rest or rear bag is not an issue.

//Peter
 
The stock must compleatly bottom out between the ears as well, othervise your POA will climb from shot to shot.
Click to expand...

I don't like this. I like the contact with the bottom to be minimal. Now I shoot more score than group (though at long range, there is only one bull). If you're moving the gun from bull to bull, and that would include the sighter in group shooting, I find full out, butt being supported by the bottom of the bag, gives me flyers. Your mileage may well vary. And as far as that goes, I like the ears filled with "heavy" sand, but the base filled with sand & gravel, so it locks itself into place better. Again, YMMV.

& go read Wilbur's post again.
 
Thanks Gentelmen, it's all begging to make sense now. I will try everything I have learnt today and apply it at the range soon. Although the rear bag feels very dense duevto the heavy sand, it probably is not. Since I am letting the stock sort of ride on top of the ears, it's probably setting into the rear bag as Steve pointed out.

Ed
 
Came to think of one other thing as well. Make sure that your rear bag isn´t sliding forward on the bench upon recoil. Some bags can be quite slippery, and combined with a dusty bench and jumping rifle the bag might actually slide forward.

Peter
 
So quick

Wilbur said:
One of two - you're gonna have to do some minor aiming with the rear bag (squeezing) or get one of those joystick rests. You need to be able to shoot five shots in 15 seconds or faster. Be advised that 1/8 inch aim error ain't squat in a two inch wind.
Click to expand...

I haven't ever had much success being a runner. I wouldn't even attempt to reload , get back on target, re-assess the conditions and fire in 3 seconds per shot. May be my brain just can't process that much information in three seconds. I sure would like to know the trick in doing this.
Andy.
 
Here's how I do it/did it whatever. There's nothing much to process....

I don't use a front stop. They cause problems such as Markhor is having. If he tossed that front stop he could push the rifle further forward and eliminate his problem - but I digress.

Not using a front stop I fire a shot, reload, put my left hand on the rear bag, look through the scope and as I'm pushing the rifle forward the crosshair magically goes straight to where I want to aim. When it gets there, I pull the trigger and repeat three more times for a total of five shots. Actually, the first shot doesn't take any of your 15 seconds so that leaves 3.75 seconds per shot.

About that magical crosshair travel...that comes from hand eye coordination developed over a bazillion shots. As I push the rifle forward, my left had moves/squeezes/nudges the rear bag left or right as necessary. I don't even know how it does it - it just does. Without the front stop the vertical component is adjusted with my right hand (rifle position) without any thought on my part.

When you "run 'em" you glance at the flags while loading in an attempt to detect a change such that you need to stop. Any more than a glance and you should stop anyway because you are no longer running. Basically it's a suicide mission that very often ends with a really good target. Once burned (usually pretty bad) a competitor is reluctant to try it again but here's another question to ponder. Would you prefer to win every now and then or lose every time just because you don't want to get burned?

Alternatively, you can watch the flags carefully, make sure that you and your rifle is in the exact same position for every shot and shoot when the flags are the same for every shot. I wish you good luck with that approach. All too often you'll find yourself in quite a pickle at the one minute warning and get burned. Of course, that doesn't count as getting burned because you were trying to do it "right" - a victim of circumstances so to speak.

Tony Boyer said, "The most important decision you make is when to start your group." It follows that if you're not gonna shoot your shots right then and there you can start just anytime you like.
 
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Btw

For a long time I thought that folks were stretching the truth when they said their rifle returned to within a "skosh" of their aiming point. I shot a few shots from a fellow's setup in Birmingham, AL (ROLL TIDE!) and it was nearly almost return to battery. An eye opener to say the least.
 
Unless you are sitting directly behind the gun, that big MiniGator is most likely the culprit. Many benches make it really difficult to get BEHIND the gun unless you have a turkey neck!! Try repositioning yourself from how you sit now.
 
Jerry, you are right about the Minigater and the bench, it does not have a cutout large enough where I can get behind it. I have to awkwardly move my neck and the bag sits right at the edge of the bench. Sitting directly behind the bag would mean sitting on the White ceasefire line, is that ok to do? Any suggestions how I tackle the bench situation.

Thanks,
Ed
 
I sit "beside" my rifle. Actually, it's more like 75 degrees to the rifle, not completely parallel. For point-blank, I shoot free recoil. I shoot free recoil with a .30 BR, too.

If it kicks too hard to to shoot free recoil -- like a .338 magnum for 1,000 yard benchrest, you need a different technique. There, I sit about 45 degrees to the rifle, hold on to it, & do most (much?) of my holding at the forearm. The only time I use the front stop on a rest is when I'm holding on, slightly pushing the rifle into the stop with the forearm hand, to help with recoil. And when doing that, I muscle the rifle into position. There are ways to muscle a rifle, at least, a centerfire, and be successful.

This holding on technique isn't a cookbook recipe. You sort of have to find out what works & doesn't throw shots (often). Like Wilbur says, if you're going to be successful, it is instinct. Anyway, that's my excuse for not being able to give you a recipe for how to hold a hard kicker.
 
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Markhor said:
Jerry, you are right about the Minigater and the bench, it does not have a cutout large enough where I can get behind it. I have to awkwardly move my neck and the bag sits right at the edge of the bench. Sitting directly behind the bag would mean sitting on the White ceasefire line, is that ok to do? Any suggestions how I tackle the bench situation.

Thanks,
Ed
Click to expand...
On some benches it is difficult if not impossible to get in a proper position. Try moving the stool seat higher to allow you to lean over some..this is not best but sometimes it helps. For starters, think about ordering a Protektor DR bag directly from Protektor and have them fill it will 50/50 light/heavy. This will cost you an extra $14 to get them to fill it.

The Protektor DR is about as wide as your Minigator but this sucker refuses to be pushed around.
Consider the 4" long, 1" high Cordura ears unless you have a really fat stock butt.

http://www.protektormodel.com/DrBag.htm
 
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