Crosshairs moving up after the shot

You have gotten some excellent advice. You wrote of using the center post to get back on target. I never touch it preferring to set up my rest so that the rear leg point is extended several turns so that I can use it to make up or down aiming corrections. Obviously this is for the knob twisting style of shooting. Even so, in the past, I have followed Wilbur's advice and not used a stop. and when the conditions held, shoved the rifle back on target and fired. with good results. Many other times, in the middle of the day, when things were switching too fast for running, I would use the knobs to aim, sit up, and shoot free recoil without looking back through the scope before pulling the trigger. For conditions where timing the switch is critical, I think that this is an advantage. For me, conditions determine shooting style. Have you done any fiddling with bag ear fill?
 
Thanks Jerry, I have one of the DR bags that I had them custom make for a thick stock F Class rifle I used to have. It's a flat top, the distance between ears is 1". I had them fill it when I got it, it's extremely heavy. I will give it a try this weekend. The distance between the ears is bit much but I will see how it does.

Thanks,
Ed
 
Boyd and Wilber thanks for the pointer on the front stop. I will try shooting without using it. Being new to the game, I assume since it's on the front rest, one has to use it.

Thanks everyone for the great advise, have learnt a lot from all the ideas provided.

Ed
 
No two things the same

Wilbur said:
Here's how I do it/did it whatever. There's nothing much to process....

I don't use a front stop. They cause problems such as Markhor is having. If he tossed that front stop he could push the rifle further forward and eliminate his problem - but I digress.


When you "run 'em" you glance at the flags while loading in an attempt to detect a change such that you need to stop. Any more than a glance and you should stop anyway because you are no longer running. Basically it's a suicide mission that very often ends with a really good target. Once burned (usually pretty bad) a competitor is reluctant to try it again but here's another question to ponder. Would you prefer to win every now and then or lose every time just because you don't want to get burned?

Alternatively, you can watch the flags carefully, make sure that you and your rifle is in the exact same position for every shot and shoot when the flags are the same for every shot. I wish you good luck with that approach. All too often you'll find yourself in quite a pickle at the one minute warning and get burned. Of course, that doesn't count as getting burned because you were trying to do it "right" - a victim of circumstances so to speak.

A BR shooter of many years experience once told me that no two things have ever been repeated exactly the same including wind conditions. After the first shot you will be holding for the remaining 4 shots. Practice by deliberately shooting on different wind conditions so you can learn where to hold or it will just be luck if you win anything. Obviously runners would dispute this categorically. So I wonder who is the more correct ?
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I don't think runners would dispute anything others choose to do. If the opportunity is offered, runners will run. They can't help themselves and there's a reason for that. One of the buzz phrases used in cause analysis is "previously successful". Of course, cause analysis is not usually done when something goes right but the phrase would work well in either case.

There are many devices out there to facilitate speed shooting. Speed screws, joysticks, left bolt/right eject, coned bolts, etc...wonder what's up with that.

So here comes another thought that may have no basis. Those that can shoot fast have two options.

The late Ed Watson said "I'd rather get three off and fight for two rather than fight for all four."

Conversely, I think it was Allan Hall that said when looking at one of the aforementioned devices. "That thing could make me miss twice as fast." Allan also counseled us time and again that if we were gonna shoot fast we had to have good brakes. Allan can shoot five shots in a "yankee second".
 
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One year when Speedy had done exceptionally well at the nationals (I think.) at 200, I asked him if there has been anything unusual in his approach. He had beat some very good shooters. He said that the conditions were very much like he was used to shooting in Texas, and that he had used a technique that he described as "shooting around the post" which he said that Tony uses as well. He said that once you start a group, using that technique, to be successful, you could not stop. It basically was using the previous shot to gauge a change in hold off when the flags were not holding but making a gradual change, while you are shooting the group. By keeping the timing of the shots constant, the relation between the change of the flag, and the change in hold off would be more predictable, if the flags were turning at a fairly regular rate. Obviously, this technique is tied to a particular set of wind conditions, and requires quite a bit of experience.
Another thing that if feel is very much invloved in running is the level of emotion that can result. With all the hurry, it is easy to get pumped, and this can alter judgment, causing a shooter to ignore a slight condition change, and try to wish the shot in, instead of stopping the run, putting on the brakes.

Sometimes it seems that discussions center around the mechanical aspects of how to obtain the most accuracy from a rifle, and ignore important aspects of match success (or failure). Knowing when to start a group, when to run, when to stop, when to pick, and when to go to the sighter are huge parts of the game that are all tied up with a shooter''s emotional state. I don't know how many times I have allowed myself to be drawn into starting a group in a light condition that would not hold or come back. Of course I am probably the only one that suffers from this malady, but just in case there is another one out there, I thought that I would mention it.
 
Well this morning at the range I applied all the great advise provided by all of you including, setting the rear bag, setting the stock deep in the bags and not using the front stop. I am happy to report that my rifle tracked beutifully. The cosshairs returned to targets as the rifle was pushed forward. The speed screws were enough to make any small adjustments needed.

Thanks,
Ed
 
Markhor said:
I am a new Benchrest shooter. I am having a tough time getting my rifle back on target after it recoils in the bags. Once the shot goes off and I push the rifle forward with my shoulder to rest stop, I notice that the crosshairs have moved quite a ways up.
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Ed, Pound the butt of your rifle downward into the rear bag ears BEFORE the first shot. Do it a few times.

What you're experiencing is the butt slowly settling into the ears as more and more shots are fired. As the butt moves downward, the foreend moves up, and so does the angle of your scope.

Eventually the movement would subside, but you can negate all that by pounding the butt into the ears a few times before the first shot.

You might need to remove a little sand in the ears if they were overfilled.
 
Wilbur said:
Here's how I do it/did it whatever. There's nothing much to process....

I don't use a front stop. They cause problems such as Markhor is having. If he tossed that front stop he could push the rifle further forward and eliminate his problem - but I digress.

Not using a front stop I fire a shot, reload, put my left hand on the rear bag, look through the scope and as I'm pushing the rifle forward the crosshair magically goes straight to where I want to aim. When it gets there, I pull the trigger and repeat three more times for a total of five shots. Actually, the first shot doesn't take any of your 15 seconds so that leaves 3.75 seconds per shot.

About that magical crosshair travel...that comes from hand eye coordination developed over a bazillion shots. As I push the rifle forward, my left had moves/squeezes/nudges the rear bag left or right as necessary. I don't even know how it does it - it just does. Without the front stop the vertical component is adjusted with my right hand (rifle position) without any thought on my part.

When you "run 'em" you glance at the flags while loading in an attempt to detect a change such that you need to stop. Any more than a glance and you should stop anyway because you are no longer running. Basically it's a suicide mission that very often ends with a really good target. Once burned (usually pretty bad) a competitor is reluctant to try it again but here's another question to ponder. Would you prefer to win every now and then or lose every time just because you don't want to get burned?

Alternatively, you can watch the flags carefully, make sure that you and your rifle is in the exact same position for every shot and shoot when the flags are the same for every shot. I wish you good luck with that approach. All too often you'll find yourself in quite a pickle at the one minute warning and get burned. Of course, that doesn't count as getting burned because you were trying to do it "right" - a victim of circumstances so to speak.

Tony Boyer said, "The most important decision you make is when to start your group." It follows that if you're not gonna shoot your shots right then and there you can start just anytime you like.
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Wilber,
This was probably one of the most useful and helpful posts I have read in a long time and I read a lot of posts, it was very well written and the front post part I am sure is what my problem has been, I have never tried to shoot with out it, but the same as the op I find it frustrating, I have got by, by being a bag squeezer and manipulator, I have tried everything imaginable except take the stop off:confused: The Lord gave us a brain yet some like me doesn't use it?? thanks again Wilber, I will now finish reading this thread and tomorrow rain or shine I am heading for my range with a new outlook on front rest use.
Wayne.
 
Markhor said:
Well this morning at the range I applied all the great advise provided by all of you including, setting the rear bag, setting the stock deep in the bags and not using the front stop. I am happy to report that my rifle tracked beutifully. The cosshairs returned to targets as the rifle was pushed forward. The speed screws were enough to make any small adjustments needed.

Thanks,
Ed
Click to expand...

Markhor said:
Well this morning at the range I applied all the great advise provided by all of you including, setting the rear bag, setting the stock deep in the bags and not using the front stop. I am happy to report that my rifle tracked beutifully. The cosshairs returned to targets as the rifle was pushed forward. The speed screws were enough to make any small adjustments needed.

Thanks,
Mark,
I have now finished reading your thread, I am happy it has helped you, I can't wait for day light to try my lick at it, hopefully I will have something positive to report. What rest are you using, I remember reading which rear bag but I don't recall front Bag or rest?
Wayne.
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Wayne, I use the Sinclair competition front rest, it's very heavy. I use the Edgewood front bag.

Good luck at the range!

Ed
 
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