Change happens

Status
Not open for further replies.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. – Thomas Jefferson

The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases. – Thomas Jefferson

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. - Benjamin Franklin

They knew what they were talking about
Gary Eliseo
 
We have different ideas but I believe we all love this country. We may have reached the tipping point that Benjamin Franklin was talking about, therefore our vote is even more important. We can delay this only if more of us who love this country will vote. Enthusiasm can produce more votes and will make a difference.

Bill
 
Gina1 said:
I have been reading all these doom and gloom posts for the past few days. SHEESH.....
I think Rachel Maddow sums it all up in the following editorial.

"Ohio really did go to President Obama last night, he really did win. He really was born in Hawaii, and he really is, legitimately, president of the United States again. BLAH BLAH BLAH..."
Click to expand...

Gina, what you don't get, perhaps because you have liberal views, is that conservative, libertarian-minded people have their OWN views, and don't need some mouthpiece like Rachel Maddow talking for them. Romney doesn't talk for me, nor do any representatives on any side of the aisle talk for me. Sane courageous responsible people want LESS government, and MORE personal freedom. I don't need road signs telling me not to litter the highway. I've been picking up litter thrown by losers and slackers and ignorant morons for decades. If I could impose consequences on those who litter, it would be that they eat what they discarded. Graffiti "artists" who mark anything except their own property would be required to remove their "art" with their tongues.

But modern government is mostly about trying to wrest control of the people's money. Why should you have to pay for my kids to go to college? That's immoral. That's socialism. The government overreach has established a paradigm that is an epic failure. And yet some of you want more of it. Apparently half the country wants more failure, or they expect a different outcome by just doing more of the same stuff that has FAILED for decades. The latter is a reasonable definition of "insanity". The former means you're anti-American, as in America the land of the free and the home of the brave. If you think that I should have to pay for you, or for anybody other than myself or those whom I deem worth my expenditure, then you're a socialist. And you're thus my enemy. Because the end game to that view is that you would FORCE others to support you.

I know that people who think and act independently is a frightening concept for those who don't. The objective of conservative, libertarian-minded people shouldn't be to get along with socialists. The objective should be to defeat them. Just like the USA vs. the USSR.

In the America that right-minded people believe in, the people rule the government -- not the other way around. And if you think the current state of the union is okay, then you ought to audition for the ostrich in your next community theater production of "The Lion King" (although in Washington D.C. it's accurately labeled "The Lyin' King"). Stick your head in the sand, or have the guts to stick your hand in the air when the roll call for supporting socialism goes out. The rest of us, I hope, will stick to our guns. Don't be cowed by the hateful left. They deserve your scorn.
 
As I have read the previous threads, some say don't vote for an incumbent. That may be true in some aspects, but a couple of things to consider. If a politician tries and does some good, (which is always going to be limited by the ranks of the others in office), why fire him or her. They may be your best bet to bring better changes in the future, as they gain a stronger position in that branch. There are a few who do try and use the values that are looking for in a representative, but not the vast majority by far.

There are many ways to approach the corruption problem with our gov't. First is the pension after serving. You only have to serve one term to recieve that pension. And if you go from the House to the Senate and serve one term, you have two pensions. Biden will have his Senate and VP pensions to look forward to after 2016, same with Obama.
After a couple of decades, with all of the clowns that "serve", that money adds up. That needs to be addressed and soon.
Plus, they should not be allowed to vote them selves a pay raise. Let the public vote on that. Fat chance right.

Term limits are another choice, but again, we are talking about getting rid of those who do some good.

I don't where this Gina comes from, but she needs to go back to school and learn some simple math and apply it to some common sense thinking, but that is the problem as a whole with our gov'ts spending to begin with.

Gina, tell us what back ground you have and how you came to be on this forum. Are you a shooting enthusiast? What kind of work do you do? Have you ever run a business, met a payroll, kept the books for a business? tell us about yourself. The regulars on this site, most meet the criteria that I mentioned. give us a comparison. What state do you live and vote in?

I am willing to bet, that these questions go unanswered. No doubt who she voted for.

Guys, I, like you, am going to stick it out and work harder & pray a lot that the future is not lost. I will hope that eyes will be opened and our core values are not lost to the past. I hope to live long enough to see things turn around for the better. I will try to do my part to ensure that real HOPE has a chance in the future.

Gotta get back to work now, the Left is counting on me.
 
Well I know where "Hambone" comes from, both the handle and the person using it.......

WE LEFT YOUR COUNTRY a long time ago and any "wisdom" from your side of the pond is not only suspect, it's un-American by definition. You REALLY don't think like us! Trying to drag us into your condition is a natural human tendency (over here we call it "misery loves company") but we're resistive, quite Ol' Bean.

BTW, how many gun's have YOU got hanging on your walls? What sort of gun do you use for home defense? (I know, I know, those bobbies keep you so protected you don't NEED no home protection eh???)

LOL!!

al
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Al

All that moonshine and grape juice along with the home spun view of the rest of the world has sure messed with your mind. I neither dislike you or like you as Americans. I prefer to form an opinion on the individual rather than a perceived impression of the populace as a whole. This assign view that only the "american view", what ever that is, is the one that counts is what has brought you to this state of dismay in the first place. Ho Hum!

I'm not required to have guns hanging on my wall. My chosen home defence weapon would be a short barrelled s/a shogun combined with 00buck shot. Fortunately, unlike in the land of the free we tend not to live in fear of the armed intruder with their saturday night specials over here. You makes your choice and you live with the consequences. LOL

Look out .....................he's behind you.
 
Hambone said:
You makes your choice and you live with the consequences.
Look out ...he's behind you.
Click to expand...

The rights for individuals to choose, and for individuals to bear individual responsibility, is the crux. You might think it okay to give up individual rights for the Crown or the government, because they should be in charge. You might think it okay for the government to decide how much you should have, and how you should live, and how your children should be schooled and on and on, until you need not worry about making a choice -- because you no longer have any that matter. Rationalize your situation as you like, and look out for the cameras that your government has installed to watch you. Speaking of, who's watching them?
 
Thank you bone! You answered with your heart, I appreciate that.

We really do live in different worlds, and if you think we over in the colonies are always looking over our shoulders in fear you've been watching too much tv.

Our "state of dismay" falls WELL SHORT of what you've long ago accepted as normal.... thing is, some of us DON'T WANT TO BE LIKE YOU!!...... I know what it's like in Europe and on your island. This goofy idea'r that Americans are somehow completely iggorant of the rest of you'se is weird...??? Sure, we're selfish and arrogant and confident that we live "best" because we go out and CHECK. I also know what it's like here. We yell and stomp and make things happen BECAUSE WE CAN. And I'm yelling and stomping because I'm (as you've pointed out) being outnumbered, but I CAN do something about it. We DO do something about it. In my lifetime repressive gun-related laws, laws enacted by feel-good legislators and voted in by an uninformed generation. But we bring things back around, historially. I CAN right now this minute walk over and pick up any firearm from .22LR to 50BMG, jump in my jacked up 4X4 getting 3mpg, and go shoot, 24-7/365, no planning, just on impulse....and I don't have to check ith anyone to do it. Yet my 6yr-old kids can blithely ride their bikes anywhere they want, coast to coast, from sea to shining sea. Granted, there are some spots in he hearts of the big cities that are spooky like the movies but they're rare and generally the folks there are just people too... and generally we simply don't worry about "safety" because we're self-governing. Bad guys simply don't mess in armed homes.


I LIKE that and I'll keep "fighting" for it to stay this way.

Y'all can just watch and continue in your status quo.

al
 
Quote Originally Posted by Dan Conzo View Post
Both Bills have summed things up very well. I just hope WE never give up and stay vigilant.
Then quoting Wilbur, "Further, it appears that voting is not gonna be enough."

So Wilbur, what do you think might be enough if voting don't work? Revolution? Secession? I don't think we can educate this out of the up and coming generations because those educating them are educating it into them.
 
Once A Lady from America went to England to display her superior shooting skills to so-called royalty and others and not once did she curtsy to the queen of England while the queen was in her presence because this Lady was the queen's equal and more, an AMERICAN CITIZEN. English subjects would be speaking German if it wasn't for America, except for Margaret Thatcher, the Best Man in Europe.
 
I wonder if this Lady from America was thinking what I'm thinking right now--When will they mind their own business?
 
alinwa said:
<<<lots of really great, insightful stuff snipped>>>

...Right now we've a president who thinks working for the government is "a job!"...
Click to expand...

I was with you, mostly, until you made that statement. I even let it sit and churn in my head for a long time before I decided to respond.

Could you please expound a bit on that statement? I must not fully understand it.

Because if it means precisely what it says (and I freely admit that I may be quoting it out of context and completely screwing this up) then what you've just done is try to make some point I don't understand via a viscous insult to countless soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, special agents, firefighters, policemen, judges, guys who fill potholes, scientists who fly into hurricanes, county game managers who help ensure the deer population stays healthy, federal prisoner transport specialists, prison guards, and probably a hundred other job titles of good people I know who definitely think they have a job, even though they work for the government. The preceding list is just people I personally know. A full list of occupational titles would go on for pages.

I'd love to get the reaction of one of my oldest and dearest friends, a federal judge, if I told him there are people out there who don't think he has a job simply because his paycheck comes from the government. Clearly, I've misunderstood the point you're trying to make.

Would you mind taking another run at helping me understand?
 
benenglish said:
I was with you, mostly, until you made that statement. I even let it sit and churn in my head for a long time before I decided to respond.

Could you please expound a bit on that statement? I must not fully understand it.

Because if it means precisely what it says (and I freely admit that I may be quoting it out of context and completely screwing this up) then what you've just done is try to make some point I don't understand via a viscous insult to countless soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, special agents, firefighters, policemen, judges, guys who fill potholes, scientists who fly into hurricanes, county game managers who help ensure the deer population stays healthy, federal prisoner transport specialists, prison guards, and probably a hundred other job titles of good people I know who definitely think they have a job, even though they work for the government. The preceding list is just people I personally know. A full list of occupational titles would go on for pages.

I'd love to get the reaction of one of my oldest and dearest friends, a federal judge, if I told him there are people out there who don't think he has a job simply because his paycheck comes from the government. Clearly, I've misunderstood the point you're trying to make.

Would you mind taking another run at helping me understand?
Click to expand...

Thank you Ben, I was remarkably unclear...... Let me preface this by saying that I'm involved in the building trades and construction from small to large. So my view is from that remove. The people I mostly spend time with build stuff, from bridges and roads to homes and Safeway stores, from windmills to dams.... framers, masons HVAC guys and plumbers, electricians and welders. And right now a lot of them are "working for the government" doing projects financed by our kids and grandkids instead of working on homes and businesses. Right now in my area alone I could drive you past 400 MILLION dollars worth of "Wa Jobs Now" construction projects in an hours time. I know that a large percentage of the "jobs" that we hear about in the news are make-work projects in the name of "infrastructure improvements" which in many cases aren't improvements. I could drive you on roads that have been "improved" by minority contractors and made worse, bridges that have been moved 50ft to accommodate a light rail system with no ridership.

My single point is that MAKING JOBS by replacing and fixing stuff that doesn't need fixing isn't really job generation. I'm privy to the planning dept's schedules here because a lot of this sort of work takes years to set up and schedule effectively, contractors are traditionally working years in advance with the various jurisdictions keeping the system in good repair.... until a mandate comes down from on high saying "we have money to give you NOW! Get that stuff up and going!" And the money is allocated by things other than need. In many cases "needs" are manufactured, jobs are streamlined at high cost or even manufactured in the name of improvement, TO GET AN ALLOCATION. Tear up and replace a road instead of continuing it's upkeep.... I know of meetings where guys set around trying to justify where to spend the money, I call it "make-work." And I don't like calling "make-work" a job. The only time I'm willing to pay one group of guys to dig a hole and another group to fill in the hole is if they're in training for their real job, like soldiers, policemen, firemen, etc.

Another item is making positions to fill quota's and to receive allocations. Out here being a small town next to a big town opens up all sorts of opportunity, there are new jobs being created like crazy, people applying for positions that don't even exist yet, erecting buildings for government offices that aren't even defined yet. And upgrading their own buildings.....We've got two building departments here in downtown Vancouver WA, one for the city and one for the county and they're like showplaces, feels like a little piece of Las Vegas right there in downtown. So what I'm asserting is, a 20 million dollar building may make a few jobs for a year or two but IMO it does nothing to stimulate the economy.

So, I'm not taking anything away from the necessary jobs of government, I do have ideas about how certain jobs could benefit by privatization but that's not the issue I was referring to. I was referring to what around here are openly called "Obama jobs." Jobs based on "stimulus money."

I didn't specify that in my post.

my bad,

al
 
Bill Ohio said:
You might think it okay for the government to decide how much you should have, and how you should live, and how your children should be schooled and on and on, until you need not worry about making a choice -- because you no longer have any that matter.
Click to expand...

Bill

Isn't that just what you have in the US. You might think you have those choices, but in reality...............your'e simply living the dream.

Give it up boys!
 
alinwa said:
Thank you bone! You answered with your heart, I appreciate that.

We really do live in different worlds, and if you think we over in the colonies are always looking over our shoulders in fear you've been watching too much tv.

Our "state of dismay" falls WELL SHORT of what you've long ago accepted as normal.... thing is, some of us DON'T WANT TO BE LIKE YOU!!...... I know what it's like in Europe and on your island. This goofy idea'r that Americans are somehow completely iggorant of the rest of you'se is weird...??? Sure, we're selfish and arrogant and confident that we live "best" because we go out and CHECK. I also know what it's like here. We yell and stomp and make things happen BECAUSE WE CAN. And I'm yelling and stomping because I'm (as you've pointed out) being outnumbered, but I CAN do something about it. We DO do something about it. In my lifetime repressive gun-related laws, laws enacted by feel-good legislators and voted in by an uninformed generation. But we bring things back around, historially. I CAN right now this minute walk over and pick up any firearm from .22LR to 50BMG, jump in my jacked up 4X4 getting 3mpg, and go shoot, 24-7/365, no planning, just on impulse....and I don't have to check ith anyone to do it. Yet my 6yr-old kids can blithely ride their bikes anywhere they want, coast to coast, from sea to shining sea. Granted, there are some spots in he hearts of the big cities that are spooky like the movies but they're rare and generally the folks there are just people too... and generally we simply don't worry about "safety" because we're self-governing. Bad guys simply don't mess in armed homes.


I LIKE that and I'll keep "fighting" for it to stay this way.

Y'all can just watch and continue in your status quo.

al
Click to expand...

Al

I keep my heart out of such discussions. I watch very little TV but I do read a lot. I'm guessing those observers of US mainstream life can't all be wrong. Hence the living in fear observation.

I too can legally shoot 24/7/385 any and all firearms I own. No government imposed limits, now need to draw tags, no need to wear blaze orange, no need to shoot 2 does before I can go in the draw for a buck tag. Yeap! It sure is fine, this side of the pond.

Your dismay at how events have turned out is starting to sound a bit maniacal. Take a chill pill bro!)chill(
 
Dan Conzo said:
English subjects would be speaking German if it wasn't for America
Click to expand...

Don

A commonly spouted misconception.

Just think. You would be speaking French or Spanish now if it wasn't for us English. LOL
 
There is a lot of hatred in this world directed toward America (some within, most foreign). No doubt it stems from jealousy, especially of our freedoms and equality and there will always be because even after a step back, they know we will take two forward.
 
Don

I agree there is a great deal of hatred, distrust and disgust towards the US in the world. But not for the reasons you mention. You might think you have freedoms, you might like to think you have equalities.
Its that "American view" thing that Al has got sucked in by all over again.

Any way I've had enough already and Wilbur will be getting twitchy. As we have run over his deadline.
 
The difference between us and other countries is that WE are not full of hate like most are, because we are not jealous of other countries and we will never "give it up boys" like others have, and the jealous and spiteful know this and they can't stand it.
 
goodgrouper said:
I'm still in shock. How is it that half the population of this country wants four more years like the last four years?????? How could people be so blind?? This should have been a cake walk into the white house for any challenger with half a plan to fix this mess! Let this be a lesson to the next republican campaign..............you CANNOT play it safe and "be nice" anymore. You can't hope that people are intelligent enough to look at the track records and their current status and run on that because people just aren't that smart anymore it seems. Well, they're going to get what they deserve.......more empty promises and lip service. Bad thing is that the other half of the country is going to suffer for at least 4 more years.
Click to expand...

"The last four years?" How about the last four years before the "last four years?" Were they so hot??
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top