Change happen Part III

[Charles E]

Danny, the folk in Washington never ask my opinion. Either side. But I do like & listen to Michael Bloomberg, the mayor of New York. I'm uninformed enough that I don't know whether he's a Republican or a Democrat. I seem to remember someone saying he's rich, and when I listen to him or read what he writes, he seems pretty sensible.

His comment on the capital gains rate was it simply reflects economic policy. If the government wants to encourage investment, it lowers the capital gains rate. Econ 101. Now if the government thinks that someone making 13.5 million a year, all from capital gains, needs to be taxed at a higher rate, it has to scale the capital gains rate just like it scales the income rate. We're still in Econ 101, and if the Democrats can't figure that out, I'd suggest a recall.

Nothing I've heard contradicts that -- of course, I don't much listen to TV news, period. If that's what's scaring you, I'd worry, but worry a lot less. Unless you can't get an erection or your bones are softening. They push products for that a lot. Oh, and Fox news, which also sells lies, because it's what people want to hear, & cheaper to lie than do any work.

* * *

While our business is all right, we've not been unaffected by the recession. I set type, something anyone can do at their desk now, right? And it can be done in India at 25% what we charge. Nor do I assume that Asians aren't just as smart or capable as Americans. But what has been true is that there is a relatively small segment of the market, high quality work, where they don't compete. A niche.

And we've lost some customers, at least for a while. The University of Washington Press (Where Al lives, not D.C.) told us they were going to have to use their in-house people do all their own typesetting, or they'd have to lay off 50% of the staff. Most of those people usually did other things, but by doing their own typesetting, they could keep everybody on at 75% time.

Our response? I sent them a couple type families I'd worked over so they could set just about anything that used the Latin alphabet, from Vietnamese to Native American Indian languages (Navajo was the immediate problem for them). All I asked was that they not give these typefaces to another outside vendor. Like I said, sometimes you have to take care of your neighbor, even if it costs you.

I won't presume to know the answers for your business. I will bet that even if it's sorta, kinda buggy-whip manufacturing like mine, there are some. And that you're smart enough to find them.

Charles

EDIT:

I decided it was lazy of me, so I went & looked Bloomberg up. I guess you say he's currently an Independent? And yeah, he's rich... And his stated position in the "Economic issues" sounds spot on to me. I'm sure it would drive Fox News up the wall, not doctrinaire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bloomberg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bloomberg#Economic_issues

 

[Chisolm]

Danny,
You're way off base there. Pensions are insignificant next to the money from lobbyists, which is why the career politician is a career politician. But I do agree that the fed. pensions should be eliminated.

James

 

[Danny Brooks]

James,

my only answer to lobbyist problem is shoot them. I didn't say that did I? But then again, we have the NRA to lobby for us. HMMM! But is not illeagal for them to take money from lobbyist?

Charles,

You made my point for me on the cap. gains tax. And Fox news, sorry, I disagree with you there. They argue both sides of an issue and have almost an equal amount of lefties & right wingers on the staff/ on-air people. I will admit that I have been calling some of the lefties liars when listening to them on economics & gun issues.

Danny

 

[mike in co]

you cannot get rid of any of THIER benefits...THEY CONTROL THEM AND THIER PAY RAISES.....
again fix the problem not the symptoms//////

they should be on ss/medicare/obama care.....but they pull the strings...

there is only one way
never vote for an incumbent.

mike in co

Mike in Co.

You want to get rid of the carreer politician, get rid of the federal pensions that they get. I mentioned that in another thread a few days ago. Also, make them have to use ObamaCare like the rest of the populace.

Danny

 

[Charles E]

Danny, we'll not change each others mind on Fox News, so we'll have some difference based on where we get our information. Just the way it is.

* * *

Don't quite understand what you mean by "making your case with Capital gains."

Current (2012) rules, I believe:

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/no-capital-gains-due-for-some-investors-1.aspx

But let's just say they are 10% now, or 15% if your married, filing jointly, for anything over $70,000 per year. So, right now, $70,000 to $13 million, the same rate.

All I'm saying is the rate could be further staggered, and if Obama's pledge to not hit the middle class holds, that's what he & the Dems would do. (As a guess, the Republicans would try to block it...Only a guess, though.)

For example: one could make it 5% on the first $50,000; 7 percent on 50 to $100,000; 10% on 100K to $200K; 15% from $200K to $300K, etc... and make it the same as ordinary income for anything over $750K. All per year.

Don't know about you, but that would lower the rate for me; I'll never get even close to $50K from investment income unless my wife or I have a real disaster and have to sell everything off to pay the bills.

Uncles Mitt & Warren, though, would pay more.

So that meets the criteria, us poorer folk would get a break, the less unfortunate would pay more, but still less than straight income up to some high number -- $1 million or so per year. As a policy, that would continue to encourage investment while raising total revenue.

* * *

I think everyone should vote with their dollars, not just their ballot. Not that it matters, but I give a bit of money to some educational programs, the North Carolina food bank,

http://www.foodbankcenc.org/site/PageServer?pagename=FBCENCHome

Habitat for Humanity,

http://www.habitat.org/

wounded veterans,

http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

And absolutely NONE to any political candidate.

 

[Danny Brooks]

Charles,

You are using current rules, I am talking about the rules that the Dems are wnating to propose. That is what scares investers. They happy with the current rules.
The dems want to take away a lot of deductions also, like interest on your mortgage. Yes you don't use that one, but most do. And many other deductions also.

Mike,

We will have to disagree on our voting criteria. I believe in giving an incumbent that has represented me on the plus side a chance to do it again. When he or she stops doing that, then they go.

 

[Charles E]

Danny, just to be clear: The internet link I gave is the current law. The numbers I gave as an example are not current law; rather, one of many ways the Dems could do what they say while lowering taxes for the middle class and raising them for the wealthy, without generally affecting the incentive to invest.

What you take the dems as proposing depends on where you get your information. Every reporting source truncates to fit their agenda. Some flat out mis-represent. The sources I use vary from the source you use. The only sure way to know would be to be there when the politicians actually speak, and not rely on any news-reporting organization. Certainly not any single one.

 

[glp]

Even when the politicians speak, they generally just tell you what you want to hear...a turkey in every refrigerator, home ownership for all, etc. Republican or democrat...just a bunch of special interest catering liars!

 

[Vibe]

you cannot get rid of any of THIER benefits...THEY CONTROL THEM AND THIER PAY RAISES.....
again fix the problem not the symptoms//////

they should be on ss/medicare/obama care.....but they pull the strings...

there is only one way
never vote for an incumbent.

mike in co

I've unofficially proposed another - require that "None of the Above" or "No Acceptable Candidates"be a printed option in any election - especially the unopposed elections. It sends the message that we the voters would like an "Etch-a-Sketch" moment of our own, requiring a new election with all new players - force them to redeal until the stacked deck is no longer in play.

As for the petition to secede - last I heard, all 50 states were now represented. What happens if the entire collection of States secedes? Isn't that the same as just kicking DC out?

 

[Bill Ohio]

Here's the issue, the only real issue between Liberals and Conservatives. Liberals believe that they have a right to your success. That somebody besides the individual MUST pay for what that individual gets. Even if by force. That's liberalism.

Conservatives believe that the individual is responsible for the individual's success or failure. That nobody owes the individual anything. That any help to the individual is voluntary.

If you believe that you should get something that you didn't pay for, then you're a liberal. Billionaires don't owe me a dime. Why should Warren Buffet pay for my kids to go to college? Or for the roads I drive on? Or for the national park I hike in? He shouldn't.

Everybody should pay for themselves, except in the liberal world. In the liberal world, the government forcibly takes YOUR money, and gives it to somebody else. That's wrong. If you believe in socialism, then you're the enemy. Because there's no end-game except forcing others to work for the benefit of others. That's called slavery.

Do you have the guts to pay your own way? To live or die by your own success or failure? To proclaim that nobody pays for you but you? If so, you're a conservative.

Do you think anybody else should have to pay for you to eat or go to school or drive or have heat in your house? If you answer yes, then you're a liberal.

At its core, it's that simple. Which side are you on? If you think you have a right to my money, then you're my enemy. Charity is voluntary, liberals. Scary, I know. Because you don't fundamentally believe in the goodness of your fellow man. That's a reflection on you. I'd rather starve to death than for somebody to be forced to feed me. Can you say that?

 

[mike in co]

sorry billl
but again
you are playing THIER GAME...
THEY MAKE THE RULES
THEY VOTE THIER OWN PAY AND BENEFITS
AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE IN THIER PROCESS, you lose, they win...

don't believe me...look at the last 40 years......

does not matter which party controls, they both spend money they do not have, typically to garner votes to stay in place.
again you are looking at the symptoms, not the probelm.
you all need to look back and seperate SYMPTOMS from the PROBLEM.

if you own a car that uses excesive oil, you can treat the symptom, by simply adding oil all the time, or you can fix the problem and quit spending money on oil....
if u have a senate/house of reps that spends excssive money, you can treat the symptom by printing/spendin/taxing more money, or you can fix the problem by gietting rid of the professional politicians that are bleeding you to death.


you have the ability to fix the problem....NEVER VOTE FOR AN INCUMBENT...never.

it will not happen over night. the problem did not happen over night. it will take time to fix....
but if you continue to play thier game...YOU LOSE.

mike in co

Here's the issue, the only real issue between Liberals and Conservatives. Liberals believe that they have a right to your success. That somebody besides the individual MUST pay for what that individual gets. Even if by force. That's liberalism.

Conservatives believe that the individual is responsible for the individual's success or failure. That nobody owes the individual anything. That any help to the individual is voluntary.

If you believe that you should get something that you didn't pay for, then you're a liberal. Billionaires don't owe me a dime. Why should Warren Buffet pay for my kids to go to college? Or for the roads I drive on? Or for the national park I hike in? He shouldn't.

Everybody should pay for themselves, except in the liberal world. In the liberal world, the government forcibly takes YOUR money, and gives it to somebody else. That's wrong. If you believe in socialism, then you're the enemy. Because there's no end-game except forcing others to work for the benefit of others. That's called slavery.

Do you have the guts to pay your own way? To live or die by your own success or failure? To proclaim that nobody pays for you but you? If so, you're a conservative.

Do you think anybody else should have to pay for you to eat or go to school or drive or have heat in your house? If you answer yes, then you're a liberal.

At its core, it's that simple. Which side are you on? If you think you have a right to my money, then you're my enemy. Charity is voluntary, liberals. Scary, I know. Because you don't fundamentally believe in the goodness of your fellow man. That's a reflection on you. I'd rather starve to death than for somebody to be forced to feed me. Can you say that?

 

[ddkearney]

Charles,
I would take issue with what you said in post #10 - that not reading a rental car agreement is the same as not reading a mortgage agreement/promissory note. I would argue - not even close! If I fail to fully read the rental car agreement, what's the worst that could happen? I might have to pay for some gas, or damage (that might not be covered by my own car insurance), or an extra day charge. Not really a big deal. But, if I didn't fully read, or at least understand the financial implications of signing a promissory note, that could cost me thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I would hope that anyone who is desiring a home loan would be at least intelligent enough to understand that if you sign your name to borrow money, that it is your responsibility to pay it back!!

I've taken out many loans in my lifetime - auto, home, small business (farm operating notes, machinery, etc.). At no point would I ever expect someone other than me to pay that money back. I farmed through many of the lean years (from 1975-2000) and it wasn't always easy to make those loan payments. But that was up to me to figure out how to do it. Thankfully, I also had another day job that paid most of my living expenses and provided health coverage.

So, for you to claim that many of the folks that signed home loans in the go-go years of the late '90's and 2000's were coerced or lied to about their responsibilities - that's just a bull cop-out for the failure of a person to not read important legal documents (or pay a few $$ for legal advice to inform them of what the many pages are saying). Individuals are responsible for the debts that they undertake, plain and simple. I don't think that anyone put a gun to their head and said 'sign this.' If there hadn't been so many people sign those loans who hadn't done their homework on how to pay for them, we wouldn't have had such a mess in 2008-10. Again, the government trying to encourage something (home ownership) for folks who could not pencil out the deal. Is it sad - of course. But, ultimately, the debtors are responsible for their debts.
Don

 

[Steelhead1]

Charles,
I applaud you for being one of the few in our country that was financially wise enough to pay off your home and run a successful business, that is doing well in the current economy. I do feel that some of your statements early in this thread are totally inaccurate, and I hope the following will explain some of your misgivings about Wall street and Bankers. I will begin by saying that the reason there are no convictioins of Wall street people is simply because what they did was not Illlegal! Derivative trading( which caused our current economy) was legal then as it is now,Dodd/Frank did nothing to change that. You see it is nothing more than trading an investment created by a contract,(speculation) much the way Hedge Fund traders bet on the price of oil a year or ywo in the future! To understand this you have to understand that a Derivative was a matamatical computation to evaluate reward/risk utilizing this contract. The 3 guys that created it were Black-Scholes-Merton who were college proffesors ( Harvard I Think) in 1973 and two of them(Black Died) won a Nobel for their math formula in 1997! Jump forward to 2003 Trading in that year for derivatives was 170 trillion dollars thats more than 5 times the worlds GDP. However the wall street traders understood little about derivatives but continued to trade them. Now to understand how the mess started you have to go bak to the early 90's when Acorn was pushing community leaders and banks to loan more money to poorer folks so they could buy a home, they were threating to sue financial institutions and the congressional banking committee stepped in and told the financial institutions to make more loans so thats when the banking industry came up with creative financing. IE; No Doc loans, interst only loans and the expansion of A.R.M.'s so that the builders and mortgage companies could loan to people who otherwise could not afford to buy a home! Now here's were one thing you said was spot on, NO One Reads their contracts they just sign their loan docs assuning the party on the other side of the table is on their side, but its not! They happily move into their home and then a couple of years their interest rate bumps up and now they can't afford to pay their mortgage so they default, when this happened on a grand scale those people holding the derivatives lost all of their money and the housing industry came tumbling down, and took company's ( and Investor's)with large numbers in the derivative market with them, and leaving millions of empty homes on the market whose loans had to be absorbed by the banks. Freddy and Fanny were packaging (bundling) home loans and selling them on wall street so thats why they are broke too. Dodd/Frank did not deal with any of these wall street practices so thats why it is still being done today but with a bunch more caution. If your curious about who one of the attorneys of record in the case of Acorn suing the banking industries,look no further that the POTUS!
The problem with this country and our financial doom is the mis-use of credit, if you remember when you were growing up( your 1 year older than me) our folks didn't have credit cards or debit cards, my parents were on the ugly by todays standards word CASH. To add to this since you think Bloomberg is an ok guy, he for years was a Democrat but could not get elected and as such switched his affiliation to Independent, and he is not a good guy because he and others in NY are trying to impose their view of everything onto the people of NY, Example he just passed a law that you can't buy any soft drink over 16oz in the city cause its bad for you 2 years ago they passed the trans fat law that impacted eatery's in the city, to use specific products(more expensive) in eaterys to remove trans fats. Shouldn't I be able to decide what I consume and how much! I was born and raised in NJ, and my knowledge on the housing industry is based on the fact that I worked for most of the major builders as a Project Manager, and was involved in the closing process and financial aspects of those builders! So please you don't need to blame Wall Street or Bankers the Blame should actually be aimed at the congress because they created this mess!

 

[shinny]

I just viewed this thread today and thought I would share some info I received yesterday. It should fit in nicely.

INFO FROM A FORD DEALERSHIP
One of my salesmen here had a woman in his office yesterday wanting to lease a brand new Focus. As he was reviewing her credit application with her he noticed she was on social security disability.

He said to her you don't look like you're disabled and unable to work.

She said well I'm really not. I could work if I wanted to, but I make more now than I did when I was working and got hurt (non-disabling injury). She said the gov't sends her $1500.00 a month in 1 check. And she gets $700.00 a month on an EBT card (food stamps), and $800.00 a month for rent. Oh yeah, and 250 minutes free on her phone. That is just south of $3500.00 a month.

When she was working, she was taking home about $330.00 per week. Do the math and then ask yourself why should she go back to work. If you multiply that by millions of people, you start to realize the scope of the problem we face as a country.

Once the socialists have 51% of the population in that same scenario, we are finished.

The question is when do we cross that threshold if we haven't already, and there are not enough people working to pay enough taxes to support the non-working people? Riots?? Be prepared to protect your homes.

She didn't lease the Focus here because the dealer down the road beat our deal by $10.00/month. Glad to know she is so frugal with her hard earned money."

How passing info on to others in America is having an effect...

PASS THIS ON TO 10
10 pass it on to their 10
100 then pass it on to their 10
1,000 then pass it on to their 10
10,000 then pass it on to their 10
100,000 then pass it on to their 10
1,000,000 then pass it on to their 10
10,000,000 then pass it on to their 10
100,000,000 then pass it on to their 10
Yes, through the power of the Internet America is becoming aware.

PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO YOUR 10!

 

[mike in co]

this is way off topic for the real issue..
but i was in the mortgage biz.
there was a point where lo...too low income mortgages were thrust on the banking industry .
the people who got the loans were low income, no credit history...no common sense..and did not know they should read, did not know what it said if they did read.
it was a boondoggle from the inception..it was another 'LETS BE FAIR WITH LOANS AND HOUSING" politicians buying votes with anyones money.

mike in co

Charles,
I would take issue with what you said in post #10 - that not reading a rental car agreement is the same as not reading a mortgage agreement/promissory note. I would argue - not even close! If I fail to fully read the rental car agreement, what's the worst that could happen? I might have to pay for some gas, or damage (that might not be covered by my own car insurance), or an extra day charge. Not really a big deal. But, if I didn't fully read, or at least understand the financial implications of signing a promissory note, that could cost me thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I would hope that anyone who is desiring a home loan would be at least intelligent enough to understand that if you sign your name to borrow money, that it is your responsibility to pay it back!!

I've taken out many loans in my lifetime - auto, home, small business (farm operating notes, machinery, etc.). At no point would I ever expect someone other than me to pay that money back. I farmed through many of the lean years (from 1975-2000) and it wasn't always easy to make those loan payments. But that was up to me to figure out how to do it. Thankfully, I also had another day job that paid most of my living expenses and provided health coverage.

So, for you to claim that many of the folks that signed home loans in the go-go years of the late '90's and 2000's were coerced or lied to about their responsibilities - that's just a bull cop-out for the failure of a person to not read important legal documents (or pay a few $$ for legal advice to inform them of what the many pages are saying). Individuals are responsible for the debts that they undertake, plain and simple. I don't think that anyone put a gun to their head and said 'sign this.' If there hadn't been so many people sign those loans who hadn't done their homework on how to pay for them, we wouldn't have had such a mess in 2008-10. Again, the government trying to encourage something (home ownership) for folks who could not pencil out the deal. Is it sad - of course. But, ultimately, the debtors are responsible for their debts.
Don

 

[Bill Ohio]

sorry billl
but again
you are playing THIER GAME...
THEY MAKE THE RULES
THEY VOTE THIER OWN PAY AND BENEFITS
AS LONG AS YOU BELIEVE IN THIER PROCESS, you lose, they win...

don't believe me...look at the last 40 years......

does not matter which party controls, they both spend money they do not have, typically to garner votes to stay in place.

Mike, you didn't understand my post, nor did I mention any party. Liberal v. Conservative is an ideology. It's not about Democrat or Republican. I didn't endorse one party or the other, nor does it matter to me what somebody looks like or whether they're male/female/in-between nor whether they were teased in school or grew up in a castle.

The current political system is a symptom of the disease caused by people promising other people the money that belongs to somebody else. That's not government's purview. Government should secure the borders, help keep the roads maintained, and help ensure that the citizenry can pursue life, liberty, and happiness.

That's not about party. If I were in charge, the whole system would be torn down, and reverted to the Constitution as it was written. Brilliant in its simplicity. Government overreach is destroying America. The irresponsible are emboldened, because politicians are promising them your and my money. All the rest is obfuscation and distraction.

The core is rotten. Fight the good fight.

 

[ddkearney]

Mike and Charles -

To summarize my points, financial literacy in the US is abysmal.

At some point, common sense has to prevail. As a general rule, at least when it comes time to sign loan notes, you don't get something for nothing; if it looks too good to be true, it probably is! If I had the answer on how to protect people from themselves, I'd never have to work again.

Don

 

[Charles E]

Mike and Charles -

To summarize my points, financial literacy in the US is abysmal.

At some point, common sense has to prevail. As a general rule, at least when it comes time to sign loan notes, you don't get something for nothing; if it looks too good to be true, it probably is! If I had the answer on how to protect people from themselves, I'd never have to work again.

Don

By God, Don, you're right. I've seen the error of my ways. It's a good thing those bankers got together & figured out a way to separate those stupid people from their life savings. Served them right!

And me too. I mean, putting my retirement money in targeted retirement funds -- how stupid. Should have known that since gold hadn't done anything in 20 years, it was DUE! It's so obvious now.

You know, there's a filly running in the 5th race that's 100 to 1. Now you wouldn't see those odds unless she was due, too, right? Smart thing would be to take what's left & go & bet it all on her to win.

But as Paul Harvey use to say, here's the rest of the story. Not many people know this, but it's true. You have my word.

What it really was, was a plot. The wives of the Wall Street bankers got tired of their hubbies working all day, playing golf, and whoring it up with fancy party girls while the wives had to deal with life's real problems, such as little Johnny getting an A-minus because he misspelled his own name. Could happen to anyone. Hard work getting the principle to make that teacher change the grade. Or should it be principal?

So, they figured, if only we can get those gun-owning Americans to get so mad at our cheating hubbies, they'll go & settle their hash. That way, we'll be able to take our survivor's inheritance, augmented by a hefty life insurance payout, and go down to Cuba & find some party animals of our own!

Boy, did we fool them. Their hubbies didn't get any lead, just more bonuses.

And it really is too bad that Geo. Bush didn't succeed in privatizing Social Security. He had this plan where you'd have to invest all your retirement money, the government program designed to cover your back in emergency would end. And you'd make so much more in the stock market, don't you know. Think how well off we'd all be today if only that had happened...

 

[Zebra13]

Don Kearney,

Sir, In re: your post #32, I couldn't agree with you more. The rental car/home purchase analogy by Charles does not ring true. I have done both. The rental car was a 15 minute deal...and no, I didn't read the fine print. But I guarantee you that I knew my mortgage inside and out. Interest rates, fees, mortgage insurance, property tax...you name it. If you don't know the details, costs, etc., howthehell else are you going to know if you can afford it?! I knew down to the cent what I could swing...and wouldn't go a cent more. I wasn't going to get my behind up over the dashboard. And not suprisingly, I haven't lost my house. Not even close. Do I have the nicest house amongst my friends? No...keeping up with the Jones' was never a priority of mine. But I still have my house. Some of my friends don't.

And figgerin' it all out wasn't that hard.

People...and politicians...are always screaming about "predatory lending". But I've yet to hear one of them say anything about irresponsible borrowing. It's far easier to blame somebody else for your failings. The Era of Irresponsibility. If you went along with the lenders in inflating your income so you could buy a house...or a bigger house...and not recognizing you couldn't afford it and stopping the process or at least asking questions...well...you're too stupid to own a house. Nobody's fault but your own. Go rent...

The politicians (like that atrocious, corpulent swine Barney Frank) and some home buyers mis-took the "American Dream" as the "American Right". And shame on them. But somehow I don't think Frank and Co. really care. They were just trying to buy them votes...

Justin

 

[mike in co]

YOUR MISSING THE POINT.
most of these people never were in this position before..
they had no clue what to do or expect.
they did what they were told..because they got a house out of the deal...

you and me may have been thru large contracts multiple times in our lives...
it was a first for most of these.....
the bottom line they were not qualified for a "real" loan.......
just sub prime as pushed down the throats by big government..to make the world "equal" and "fair"

( logic and common sense has no place in this or most political discussions)

mike in co

Mike and Charles -

To summarize my points, financial literacy in the US is abysmal.

At some point, common sense has to prevail. As a general rule, at least when it comes time to sign loan notes, you don't get something for nothing; if it looks too good to be true, it probably is! If I had the answer on how to protect people from themselves, I'd never have to work again.

Don