Bullet Seaters

C

Centerfire

Member
I am trying to decide if I need a new bullet seater for my 6PPC. I have x-brand and I am wondering about Y-brand.
I am concerned about runout and the die I have produces runout that I try to correct.
Is there a number one or are there just several also rans that you pay your dime and take your chances?
Centerfire
 
would say that wilson is the most common.....

mike in co
 
Centerfire said:
I am trying to decide if I need a new bullet seater for my 6PPC. I have x-brand and I am wondering about Y-brand.
I am concerned about runout and the die I have produces runout that I try to correct.
Is there a number one or are there just several also rans that you pay your dime and take your chances?
Centerfire
Click to expand...

You are beating around the bush a bit but I am guessing you are talking about 7/8-14 dies for use in a reloading press. If so the answer to your question is forget that train of thought completely and get yourself a Wilson (or similar) straight line seater.

Dick
 
I'll try to answer your questions.
Mike, I agree.
Dick, I am using a Wilson arbor press seating die.
Boyd, Good question, I have to check that tonight. I know my turning with my Pumpkin is producing .0086" wall thickness.
I will have to check some of my cases after using my Harrell sizing die.
Centerfire
 
Boyd, I checked 25 fired cases on my Forster checking base with the Mitutoyo .0001" indicator and do not show any needle movement on the neck after resizing with my Harrells sizing die. m Neck turning witha Pumpkin to .0086" neck wall.
I checked the inside of the seating die with my Hawkeye and the finish is not like other seating dies of the same brand.
I think I'll send it back for their review.
Centerfire
 
Centerfire: Check the i.d. of the neck area in your Wilson seating die. If it's significantly larger than your loaded rounds measure, that can be the cause for the runout. Many out-of-the-box Wilson dies have .005+ clearance in the neck area. If that's the case with yours, wrap a piece of clear Scotch tape (it's about .002-.003 thick) around the neck of a case, seat the bullet and see if the runout has improved. A VLD type chamfering tool may also be useful.

Let us know what you find, okay? -Al
 
I *think* it has been said before, but IMO, the best way to use a Wilson seater is so that the case cannot go deeper into the die than flush. Proper way is for the case to get it's centering on the shoulder, particularly the shoulder/body junction.

If your case goes too deep, just take a little off the bottom of the seater body in the lathe. And of course, be sure to use the little ring that has the hole for the primer when using it . . .

The second thing worth doing is to bore out the seater stem so it picks up the bullet nearer the body/ogive. This will make your jump/jam more consistent. I have seen dies where the seater is pickling the bullet up about 1/8-inch below the tip. This probably won't affect runout, but if you're using just a little bullet engagement -- like less than .005 or so -- you might be surprised to find you're not.

"Straight line" is one thing, having the proper things in alignment & working to the proper depth is another.
 
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I have a Neilson seater that is neck diameter specific, in fact it is a smidge tighter than my .262 chamber. The body fit is better as well. While there is no micrometer, this does not bother me any. I record the length of the stem and cap, measured with my dial calipers, and have become adept at making adjustments. One tip, tighten the stem set screw only lightly. That is all that is needed, and a friend told me that he had put some wear on his getting carried away. I bought the seater from Don at a match that we were both shooting. I happened to have one of my concentricity gauges with me (probably my H&H). He let me try it out, and I could see that my loaded rounds were coming out straighter. I was using a lot of neck tension (with 133) and was seating flat base bullets. With less neck tension, and/or boat tail bullets, seater fit is less critical, especially for BTs. When I fire form shooting 55 gr. BTs in a 6PPC barrel, I seat using my Wilson 6PPC seater, and they come out fine, despite there being no real fit at all, except for the tip of the bullet, and the head of the case. I have thought of making a seating base with a shallow ridge to center the case, that would fit within the chamfer in the base of the die. If the base had another raised area that was a close fit with the outside of the die, and the OD of the die concentric with the ID, then I think centering of the bottom of the case would be pretty much guaranteed even if the die was a little loose.
 
Picking up on what Boyd posted, here is another tip. I haven't tried it, but it was reported by Jim Hardy, a long-range BR and Palma shooter of note.

Jim felt that a good chamfering job on the neck was critical. He also felt that for flat-base bullets, a 45-degree chamfer was important -- for boattails he use a 30-degree chamfer.

If you have a Wilson case trimmer, you can buy a chamfering cutter that will do a very good job.
 
Well now I have some homework to do. I sent the die back to Wilson yesterday for their inspection so it will probably be at least two weeks till I can try these solutions. Thanks Al for the scotch tape idea I understand and will try this out.
Charles sometimes the obvious is hidden. I will definitely check and see if there is any clearance between the cartridge base and the end of the seating die. Your thoughts about the seating stem engagement of the bullet is very interesting. I have my stems id polished to keep the bullets from sticking but I have not questioned the engagement. Good point.
Boyd, thank you for your ideas, I wish I lived a little closer to Don. The tightening of the set screw might cause a problem as it did when I neck turned with a unit that had a pilot and set screw which moved the turning .0005" and caused the necks to be oval. This was the reason for purchasing the Wilson case trimmer and accessories.
All really good points that I will attempt when my bullet seater is returned.
Thank for the help
Centerfire
 
One way to get a rough idea of what the fit of the bottom of your cases are in an arbor press type seater is to insert the case upside upside down and note how far it will go into the die. You might be surprised.
 
I have been making my own seaters for some time and find that by using a reamer with a neck about .001 smaller than
chamber diameter, bullet allignment is greatly improved. Cases from a .262 chamber rarely emerge from a chamber at that
dimension. They are then reduced further in the sizing die. Typically they are then brought back up to within .001 of chamber
dimension when the bullet is seated. This may require some light polishing at the low end of the neck where cases are not sized
It works quite well.
 
Al, Charles, Boyd and Bob, Good News, I just received an e-mail from the Wilson Support department of the LE Wilson company.
My SS micrometer bullet seater was not in factory tolerance. I have been advised that a new seater is being sent to me.
Well I won't have any more excuses, LOL :) .
I wish to let everyone know that this seater was out of the standard warranty period and LE Wilson company is standing by their product.
After I receive my new seater back I will check into the items you guys were good enough to tell me to check.
Centerfire
 
I had one like that and sent it back and received the same great service. What the rep told me when I sent it in was to send a couple of sized cases along, glad I did, they sent me a die that fit like a dream. Down side though, is I lost the die some years ago. I don't think I've seated a straight bullet since. You can however order straight from wilson and send cases in with the order and bingo, in no time at all you'll have a better than off the self die. It does cost a few bucks more but it's well worth it.

Hovis
 
Thanks Hovis I did not know that. I did send fired, sized with and without seated bullets at their request.
They were very accommodating and handled my situation within 1 day of receipt of my die.
Centerfire
 
Well I received my new bullet seating die from LE Wilson and the seating stem is very tight. Have not been able to use it and go shooting because of the weather but I was able to do my homework. :)
For Al Nyhus; I performed the wrapping of Scotch tape around the neck of a sized case with and without a bullet inserted.
Regarding the measurements: The tape was .0023" thick so around the case that would be .0046" dia. I did 4 individual wraps achieving .27685" dia or .0161" over my lapua case turned to .0086" wall. 5 wraps case would not slip in die.
For Charles E.I inserted a sized 6PPC case into the seater inverted. Placed a straight edge across the die end and began inserting feeler gauges. My best feel is .013" between the straight edge and the base of the die.
Now before I rush out to my local machinest I will need to check more than one of my Kelbly chambered barrels so I do not cut too much off. I believe .001" shorter would be better than .001" left long.
I did check my seater stem contact with the Berger bullets I am using and I have suitable engagement.

Thanks for all your help, all comments appreciated.
Centerfire
 
From your measurements, it appears that the diameter across the neck i.d. portion of the seating die is .276-ish.

And the neck of a loaded round is in the .260-ish range. Both measurements rounded a bit to make this easier.

There's one place to look for the runout you're experiencing when seating a bullet.

With a sized case (including neck sizing), seat a bullet and check your runout. Next, with another identically sized case, wrap the Scotch tape around the neck so when the case is in the seating die the neck is fully supported. Seat another bullet and check the runout.

Let us know what you find, okay? -Al
 
I'ma' be a contrarian....

oooops, I AM a contrarian, so's I'll just be myself......

I predict the new seater will work just like the old seater.

But then I also wonder just how in the @#$% the shoulder of the case or the neck/shoulder junction or ANYTHING ELSE on the tapered case could possible have any effect on concentricity, runout and such.

Please let us (me) know that I'm wrong on this :)

al
 
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