N
noexcuses
Guest
It didn't come apart at all. @ 20 thousandths into the web and from there back it was enlarged to the point another spent primer can be fit back into the pocket and will rattle around in there. In fact the rimmed case is even larger, to the point that when I pried it off the bolt face it broke a small piece of the face off. Looked like it may have been brittle to start with. I've had cases seperate up from the web and leave part of the casing in the chamber before and even the necks crack but this was different. Unsure what to think of it.
Noexcuses, sounds like I was wrong,that you DID have an "over-pressure event" after all....... The reason that I balked is because in your post you mention the rounds having been reloaded 10+ times while being FL resized and that the rounds you were using when it blew had at least .003 of headspace based upon your medical tape.
10 reloads X FL sizing .003 each time = 30 thousandths of stretch on each case. This is a recipe for guaranteed casehead separation.
Doesn't sound though as if this was your issue.........if your primer loosened up then you had pressure somehow.
My guess is that the bolt is unharmed although you could have it magna-fluxed or X-rayed if you're worried about it.
al
10 reloads X FL sizing .003 each time = 30 thousandths of stretch on each case. This is a recipe for guaranteed casehead separation.
Doesn't sound though as if this was your issue.........if your primer loosened up then you had pressure somehow.
My guess is that the bolt is unharmed although you could have it magna-fluxed or X-rayed if you're worried about it.
al
N
noexcuses
Guest
I measured the medical tape and it was 5 thousandths. I've decided to come off the lands a couple thousandths, swap the brass out with a fresh batch (these have served me well) and get the bolt repaired (maybe have a sako extractor put on it) or buy a new bolt from PT&G. Any one have any opinions on PT&Gs bolt to replace the ailing one I have in my Remmie 700? How big of a PITA is it to order a PT&G bolt? Take measurements? Send them my bolt? How much assembly? Bolt handle welding? Then will I need to have it trued up to my action? The bolt I have is a stock Remmie that was just trued up. Is itworth it?
A
axlenut
Guest
Here is a rare and obscure occurrence that happened to me. I opened a can of Hodgdon powder, a little unseen piece of that Styrofoam lid seal fell into the powder (or was introduced at the factory when the can was sealed), then was dispensed into the measure where it became lodged in the drop chamber. I began getting erratic check weights when measuring random charges. That little piece of Styrofoam would shift like a stovepipe dampener and retain part of a dropped charge, then dispense it with the next charge. It was totally random, but one charge would be light, a subsequent charge too heavy. I emptied the measure and disassembled it before discovering the problem. Anything that gets into a measure can wreak havoc, that's why they come with reservoir covers.
D
Dennis Sorensen
Guest
I would not change from the 700 style extractor... you lose too much strength and safety to make it worthwhile in my opinion. If the 700 with the problem my customer had, had a Sako style extractor conversion, his rifle would have blown up and he would have been injured. Thee is nothing stronger than an unaltered 700.
D
Dennis Sorensen
Guest
He does not know if the cases that blew were from the new brass he recently bought or from the old brass he has used... if it is the old brass that failed I don't understand how it could be the brass at fault... to be a faulty brass case it would blow on the first firing... that being said I asked him if he tumbles his cases in media... and he does... I asked if it is with the fired primers in and he said yes... I asked about any media left in the case after priming and loading powder... he really doubted it... the media is dry and dumped out before depriming and after... and the load of powder comes up to the neck...
...it could be a possibility though... it can not be ruled out at this stage... but would a small amount of media, small enough so you did not notice the different powder height in the case... blow this bad...?
He is also in contact with Winchester and will keep me advised...
I have overloaded .223 countless times in a Ruger #1 and had the primer pocket grow by 20%.
I have countless times overloaded .243Win, 257 Roberts AI, .308, 30-06, 8x57mm, and 45acp in 100 year old 1898 Mausers and had the primer fall out.
Never have I had any gas hit me in the face.
That is why I own only one Rem 700, Sav 110, Howa 1500, CZ527, etc, to I can say with impunity what crap they are.
What does it all mean?
Get a #1 or a 98.
Gunner223
New member
Dennis, I have been out of town shooting ground squirrels so am late with my reply to your interesting problem. I load and shoot abount 12000 rnds of 223 per year with 26.5 of BLC2 and a 50 gr bullet. I usually load my assorted commercial brand brass until it looks like the next reloading may pull apart in the sizing die. I check my sizing die setting with a RCBS Case Mic. I find that almost all new brass, new ammo and once fired commercial that I get from the Brass Man is .004 to .007 undersized. The undersized brass make for headspace. I build my own rifles and they are all set up with an undersized "GO" gage. On the fired brass that did not blow are the primers protruding?
Keep us posted.
Don
Keep us posted.
Don
J
J. Valentine
Guest
Sako extractor would have survived that.
D
Dennis Sorensen
Guest
Keep dreaming..
My customer has been reading this thread and wishes to thank everyone for their comments... the brass is back at a Winchester representative for testing... I'll update this when I know more...
T
Thunderbolt
Guest
It could be bad cases but....
Is there a chance the round sat in a hot chamber long enough to heat soak the round?
I've seen pressure go absolutely nuts with ball powders on high volume ground squirrel hunting when a round sat in a hot chamber after a dozen or so rounds of fast shooting. I have seen this happen four times over the years on other wise reasonable loads of ball powder. All with different shooters different cases, different guns, every thing different except they all used a ball type powder.
If it was me I would get new cases possibly a different brand and a new type of powder such as Varget.
Is there a chance the round sat in a hot chamber long enough to heat soak the round?
I've seen pressure go absolutely nuts with ball powders on high volume ground squirrel hunting when a round sat in a hot chamber after a dozen or so rounds of fast shooting. I have seen this happen four times over the years on other wise reasonable loads of ball powder. All with different shooters different cases, different guns, every thing different except they all used a ball type powder.
If it was me I would get new cases possibly a different brand and a new type of powder such as Varget.
Roger T
Member
Jeff Walker
Member
one more possibility
Did the customer ever mention anything about the gun seeming to kick harder than other guns of the same caliber ?
I had a Rem model 7 in .308 Win. that really kicked hard, unusually hard. I always start at the minimum load in the book when working up loads in a new gun... the min. load was showing pressure in this gun ! If I had started near the top I would have had similar results as your customer, probably. Also, only virgin brass and brass that had only been fired in this rifle would fit. You could take once fired brass from another gun, full length resize it, and it wouldn't come close to chambering. ( This was a completely factory gun. ) Anyway, I sent the gun back to Rem, they told me that the barrel had a " rough chamber" and sent the gun back with a new barrel. I am assuming that they have a roughing reamer and a finishing reamer and this barrel somehow skipped the finishing.
-------------------Jeff
Did the customer ever mention anything about the gun seeming to kick harder than other guns of the same caliber ?
I had a Rem model 7 in .308 Win. that really kicked hard, unusually hard. I always start at the minimum load in the book when working up loads in a new gun... the min. load was showing pressure in this gun ! If I had started near the top I would have had similar results as your customer, probably. Also, only virgin brass and brass that had only been fired in this rifle would fit. You could take once fired brass from another gun, full length resize it, and it wouldn't come close to chambering. ( This was a completely factory gun. ) Anyway, I sent the gun back to Rem, they told me that the barrel had a " rough chamber" and sent the gun back with a new barrel. I am assuming that they have a roughing reamer and a finishing reamer and this barrel somehow skipped the finishing.
-------------------Jeff
Jeff, Rem hammer forges their barrels and the chambers are hammer forged at the same time. They don't use reamers and the barrel is nearly twice as long finished as it was a blank. There was pics and videos of this on the net years back, wish I would have saved the video.
Sorry for the hi-jack
Sorry for the hi-jack
E
eshell
Guest
I've seen this happen with coarse extruded powders, affecting consecutive charge weights. The pic below is Retumbo bridged in the throat of an RCBS measure and it was amazingly solid. Was I not in the habit of weighing every charge and ended up picking up the variation on the scale, it might have caused me serious trouble:
