BAT MOD. I think?? PICS Pease Look!!!

Pete, it depends on the game. We shoot BR, where a faster lock time isn't as important as consistent ignition. If you shot HP, where you hold the rifle for every shot, then lock time becomes critical. You still have to have consistent ignition to have an accurate rifle, but those guys ain't trying to shoot tiny little groups.
Not particularly replying to Hal's comment, I phones and big fingers don't go together. There's no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to ignition. speedlock kits have lighter firing pins then are combined with heavier springs resulting in harder bolt lift. With a benchrest rifle, a heavier firing pin and slightly slower lock time isn't going to hurt you. It has to be balanced with a bolt lift that won't disturb your rifle on the sand bags
 
I think some are getting confused. Using the standard remington firing pin as a baseline, when we are referring to adding weight, we're not talking about making the pin heavier than the standard, just bringing it up to the standard. Then the same applies for the spring. The reason for the mod is, it is believed that both the firing pin and spring are both to light and they are being brought up to the standard. Don't try and read more into this stuff than it is. Remington spent tons of money and time on developing the near perfect balance between lock time and pin weight when it comes to accuracy. These mods are designed to bring it up to that standard...not less...not more. Yes, with position shooters, lock-time is important and they are willing to give up a little accuracy for it.

Is the mod necessary...that's up to you.

Hovis
 
In the off-hand shooting games I have played, light weight firing pins are pretty much the norm. Part of the equation is always a heavier firing pin spring which makes a noticeable difference in the bolt lift which could easily upset the bags of a bench rifle as well as be slower in getting shots downrange in a hurry. Those games use rifles which, by ordinary standards, are fine shooting rifles, but are not capable of benchrest standard accuracy for a variety of reasons. It simply does not matter in those games if your rifle is capable of shooting below quarter minute accuracy. The shooter is the limitation and getting the bullet out of the barrel while it is still on target is paramount.

I did have one rifle with a Jewell trigger that had inadequate impact energy. One cold morning I discovered that it would not fire at all. Getting the striker fall back to where it should have been made things "right" again. Although I am told some people have "successfully" used a striker fall of as little as 0.160" in these rifles, 0.200" seems to be the norm for absolutely reliable and consistent ignition (within the limits of the capabilities of these rifles) and that may or may not be adequate in a bench rifle.
 
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Not particularly replying to Hal's comment, I phones and big fingers don't go together. There's no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to ignition. speedlock kits have lighter firing pins then are combined with heavier springs resulting in harder bolt lift. With a benchrest rifle, a heavier firing pin and slightly slower lock time isn't going to hurt you. It has to be balanced with a bolt lift that won't disturb your rifle on the sand bags

Mike, is exactly right lite firing pins need more spring its called inertia. george
 
Mike, is exactly right lite firing pins need more spring its called inertia. george

YES

Don't quote this but, I recall Speedy instructing that he tested the whole light pin vs heavy pin idea in his bench guns. I believe He stated that a light pin required a stiffer/heavier spring to adequatly ignite the primers. In comparison test he said although the lighter pin/heavy spring increased the lock time it also created a moment/vibration that also increased group size with his set-up. To that end he said he didn't see the accelarated pin system as workable for him. This was a discussion of a few years ago so not sure where he stands today.
 
Stuart Otteson, The Bolt Action, pages 256-257 states,

"Both striker energy (1/2MV²) and impulse (MV) are functions of the mass and velocity of the firing pin, but with velocity more important in the energy term since it appears to the second power. If a firing pin is lightened, velocity will increase exactly enough to hold the energy term constant. Since impulse is only to the first power of velocity, however, it diminishes. Conversely, if the same impact energy is achieved with a heavier and slower-moving firing pin, a higher impulse effect results.

It might intuitively seem that impulse improves the detonation effect of the firing-pin blow, and thus for a given impact energy, the slower and heavier type striker blow is more effective. It also apparently follows that the lack of momentum in a light fast firing pin fall requires an increased energy to compensate.

Both SAAMI and U.S. Army studies on the subject show that exactly the opposite is true. At a given energy level, a light firing pin giving a snappy low-impulse blow is more effective in detonating the primer than a heavier and slower pin. A sharp, high-velocity impact transfers its energy to the primer faster and thus at a higher peak level. The low-velocity impact, with its greater impulse, not only transfers the energy over a longer time period, and so lower peak level, but it allows more cushioning in the energy-transfer process. This was graphically illustrated in extensive development work at Olin Corporation and described in U.S. Patent 3,056,226 of Oct. 2, 1962 (Charles Hubbard and Robert Smith).

The above explains a more subtle relationship between striker design and lock time. By only increasing mainspring power, and retaining a heavy firing pin, a slow-velocity/high-impulse ignition results. By decreasing weight, the percussion becomes a high-velocity/low-impulse type. This allows designing to a somewhat lower energy, thus making possible a slight additional lock-time gain.

Another practical advantage of a light, high-velocity mechanism, is that it allows ignition with a less violent striker blow. Since the jar of the striker blow precedes the bullet to the muzzle, this enhances a rifle’s potential accuracy.

Just how much impact is actually necessary for primer detonation depends also on a number of other variables. Certain standards are available, however, which consider normal manufacturing tolerances and necessary margin for reliable ignition under varying conditions. Current U.S. Army sensitivity requirements are 48 in.-oz. for small-rifle primers and 64 in.-oz. for large-rifle primers.

Most commercial arms today use the same firing pin assembly for both primer sizes. One of the largest firearms companies bases their designs on large-rifle tests which established the following necessary impact levels for perfect ignition: 30 in.-oz. for a clamped primer, 40 in.-oz. for an ideal firearm, and 63 in.-oz. for an average production firearm, they have chosen 75 in.-oz. as the goal for their production centerfire rifles by taking the ideal firearm 40 in.-oz. figure and 10 in.-oz. for the maximum anticipated firing pin eccentricity (off-center blow), 10 in.-oz. for the maximum anticipated headspace variation (cushioned blow), and 15 in.-oz. for the effect of extreme temperatures."


HPC
 
Now that!...is an answer. Very good

Sometime ago there was an article in PS on the subject of a lighter firing pin. It seemed to make sense to me that if you could hold energy constant (given that it seemed to be adequate in the first place) and reduce impulse, that there would be less striker induced vibration traveling to the muzzle ahead of the bullet. My very informal test, using cross hair jump, seemed to confirm this. The action is a Viper. The stock spring was around 19# and the one that was furnished with the lighter firing pin that I got from Greg Tannel is supposed to be 25#. Given what you have written, I may be tempted to try the stock spring, just to see what happens. The reason that I am considering this is that the higher spring requirement may have been worked out for a more "normal" tip diameter, and the Viper's is significantly smaller, and because of this may require less energy. Opinion?
Come to think of it, I suppose that the other thing that I could do is to try the heavier spring on the stock pin. It seems counter-intuitive, but one never knows for sure until a thing has been tried. Anyone have experience with heavier springs? I think that a stock 700 spring is about 24#, so this is only heavy relative to the requirement of a smaller firing pin tip.
 
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Boyd, a very simple thing to do is to try it. If it improves your accuracy, go with it. If it doesn't, then go back to what you had. One of the most accurate rifles I have is built on a CPS SHV action. It has an aluminum firing pin with steel tip and was original with the action. I've tried lighter firing pins with heavier than normal springs in LV rifles, but haven't seen it produce any benefit in a benchrest rifles.

Mike
 
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Thanks Mike, I plan on doing just that. It is one of the advantages of having the tools that make switching easy. BTW, do you know what the spring wt. is on that CPS action. My Tannel pin has a fluted aluminum shaft that screws onto an integral stud that is part of the spring retaining shoulder/tip. The only thing that I don't care for is that the cocking piece is loose on the back of the pin.
 
Boyd, I haven't ever checked the firing pin spring to see how strong it was. Hard bolt lift hasn't been a problem with it though, maybe because its 13.5 pounds. I'll check it and see what it compresses on a scale and let you know.

Mike
 
Anyone have experience with heavier springs? I think that a stock 700 spring is about 24#, so this is only heavy relative to the requirement of a smaller firing pin tip.

Boyd, I've played a bit with this in my 'LV' model RFD action. The components I used were the standard firing pin, a Gre'Tan lightweight pin and three seperate new springs that checked at 16, 22 and 27 lbs. Pin tip diameter is .072. Firing pin travel is .240-.250 with both pins.

Of the six combos, the best in terms of accuracy was the standard weight pin and the standard 22 lb. spring. There were no misfires, even with the light pin/16 lb. spring combo. Primers were Fed 205M's. And I know this is swimming against the tide, but I like the bigger pin tips.

Not all springs are created equal, even those that check the same pressure and are supposed to fit the bolt. ;) Different helix angles can cause coil stacking...bad ignition juju that is difficult to track down.
 
Thanks Al,
Nothing wrong with swimming against the tide. So tell me about your theory of firing pin tip diameter.
 
Thanks Al,
Nothing wrong with swimming against the tide. So tell me about your theory of firing pin tip diameter.

I just haven't had issues with the 'big' tips using either small or large primers, Boyd. On the other hand, I've seen a couple of competitors experience misfires from small pin tips that were bent or tweaked.

Admittedly, not much of a theory......;) -Al
 
Thanks,
One thing that I have done with my Viper is to use a large marker to color the entire firing pin and spring in front of the shroud, put it back in the bolt and shoot it for a number of shots before looking to see if any of the color had rubbed off. It had not (back of the parallel portion at the tip). Jerry does something that not all action builders do. His firing pin tips stay in their holes throughout their cycle. With enough clearance behind the tip, it is hard to get into a bind, or drag. Greg Tannel tells me that he bushes bolt faces the same way, because, he once had a rifle that was tossing a shot every so often that making that change fixed. I guess that it is a vibration thing.
 
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