Ball micrometers?
- Thread starter TrxR
- Start date
Pete Wass
Well-known member
So,
how does one hold tenths with a neck turning tool? Bordering on the absurd here, we are now.
Pete
how does one hold tenths with a neck turning tool? Bordering on the absurd here, we are now.
Pete
Butch Lambert
Active member
Evidently you've never seen or used a Pumpkin, a TJ, or Stiller.
Tenths
Not trying to be argumentative here BUT..... seriously?
I have the tools mentioned plus Time Prec, K&M, Sinclair et al... and they have pros and cons but I can get ALL of them to cut outsides to tolerances I can't easily detect. Like I have to be careful how I hold/handle the cases...... but TENTHS in thickness using anvils and balls?
Exactly how are y'all's smoothing the insides? How exactly are you removing the hideous wrinkly CRUST on the inside of new brass? I've got inside reamers, ie "chucking reamers" in tenths sizes..... I've got LE Wilson (odd # flutes) and Forster (even # flutes) and PTG (staggered flutes) and even some spiral fluted ones as well as the K&M end-cut-only setups.
I've single-pointed the insides on the lathe......
After mandrelling, "blowing out" with pistol powder, 'spander balling, hydro-forming.....
And IMO this whole thing is freakin' SILLY
Get yer runout down into the "fractions of tenths"..... then open clearances up to 3 thou cuz, "Thin To Win"....
For WHAT? "guiding means?" . . . . "consistent release?" . . . . "consistent seating pressure?"
But hey.... that's just me. Once I figgered out how to easily and repeatably get my ES down into single digits I kinda' moved on to other items.
Life Is Short
LOL
al
edited to add..... My Jackson is of course a copy. Because I'm a youngster, and a hack. Never knew the man
Not trying to be argumentative here BUT..... seriously?
I have the tools mentioned plus Time Prec, K&M, Sinclair et al... and they have pros and cons but I can get ALL of them to cut outsides to tolerances I can't easily detect. Like I have to be careful how I hold/handle the cases...... but TENTHS in thickness using anvils and balls?
Exactly how are y'all's smoothing the insides? How exactly are you removing the hideous wrinkly CRUST on the inside of new brass? I've got inside reamers, ie "chucking reamers" in tenths sizes..... I've got LE Wilson (odd # flutes) and Forster (even # flutes) and PTG (staggered flutes) and even some spiral fluted ones as well as the K&M end-cut-only setups.
I've single-pointed the insides on the lathe......
After mandrelling, "blowing out" with pistol powder, 'spander balling, hydro-forming.....
And IMO this whole thing is freakin' SILLY
Get yer runout down into the "fractions of tenths"..... then open clearances up to 3 thou cuz, "Thin To Win"....For WHAT? "guiding means?" . . . . "consistent release?" . . . . "consistent seating pressure?"
But hey.... that's just me. Once I figgered out how to easily and repeatably get my ES down into single digits I kinda' moved on to other items.
Life Is Short
LOL
al
edited to add..... My Jackson is of course a copy. Because I'm a youngster, and a hack. Never knew the man
Not trying to be argumentative here BUT..... seriously?
I have the tools mentioned plus Time Prec, K&M, Sinclair et al... and they have pros and cons but I can get ALL of them to cut outsides to tolerances I can't easily detect. Like I have to be careful how I hold/handle the cases...... but TENTHS in thickness using anvils and balls?
Exactly how are y'all's smoothing the insides? How exactly are you removing the hideous wrinkly CRUST on the inside of new brass? I've got inside reamers, ie "chucking reamers" in tenths sizes..... I've got LE Wilson (odd # flutes) and Forster (even # flutes) and PTG (staggered flutes) and even some spiral fluted ones as well as the K&M end-cut-only setups.
I've single-pointed the insides on the lathe......
After mandrelling, "blowing out" with pistol powder, 'spander balling, hydro-forming.....
And IMO this whole thing is freakin' SILLY
For WHAT? "guiding means?" . . . . "consistent release?" . . . . "consistent seating pressure?"
But hey.... that's just me. Once I figgered out how to easily and repeatably get my ES down into single digits I kinda' moved on to other items.
Life Is Short
LOL
al
edited to add..... My Jackson is of course a copy. Because I'm a youngster, and a hack. Never knew the man
It is rather easy yo adjust most neck turning tools in 'tenths.'
And an error of even one thousandth on a neck that is 0.0100 thick is getting up there.
I shoot with a 'clearance' of only 0.0020 on the diameter of my chamber.
So 0.0010 all around.
And each has been cast and measured to a tenth.
Kevin Gullette
New member
Hey Al...........
My carbide neckturning mandrels seem to leave a very smooth "burnished" neck interior. Also, K&M offered some carbide mandrels with an integral "doughnut" cutter. They work very well for me.
Your thoughts?
As far as "tenths" are concerned......
Didn't Paul Marquart advertise his tool to turn "within a tenth"........over four decades ago??!!
Kevin
My carbide neckturning mandrels seem to leave a very smooth "burnished" neck interior. Also, K&M offered some carbide mandrels with an integral "doughnut" cutter. They work very well for me.
Your thoughts?
As far as "tenths" are concerned......
Didn't Paul Marquart advertise his tool to turn "within a tenth"........over four decades ago??!!
Kevin
My thoughts are that the "smooth and burnished necks" are awesome fine. I'm not saying they'll measure "within a tenth" in THICKNESS all over the necks using a ball and mandrel setup, but they're fine.
IMO "within a tenth" refers to repeatability, like neck-to-neck. Which, with proper fittage and a properly ground cutter they should all do.... provided you keep everything at an even temperature. I turn in a cookie sheet with a flat tupperware container of room temperature water to drop my cutter into between cuts. Some will say that a loose-fitting mandrel is OK because "the cutter presses the case against the mandrel anyways" but I disagree. Nor is an overly tight fit best IMO.
I look at neck turning tools the same way I look at sizing dies....... ie "it's neither the brand nor the precision, nor the stiffness, nor the angular danglagure...... it's all in the FIT of the components"
And in the handling.
One of my early custom purchases was a turner built by Art Cocchia and I asked him "why is this thing so BIG? It's like 5 times as big as my K&M!"
And his reply was...... pithy.
"well, it's easy to hold isn't it?"
FBecigneul
Member
Hey Kevin...hope all is well with you and yours.
Every one of the neck cutters I've used (K&M, Sinclair, 20th Century, etc) will turn to that tolerance, provided two things are met:
- A mandrel that truly fits the neck
- Consistent temp for the cutting tool
When cutting necks, I fill a plastic bowl with cheap rubbing alcohol and drop the turner into it after each case.
More important is the mandrel fit to the necks. Inside case necks are often neither round or free of taper from top to bottom. And if they've been necked up or down, you can darn sure be assured they aren't.
Making the case neck I.D. round and taper free is worth the effort, for me. Once that's done, a close fitting mandrel can be used w/o excessive heat build up. Steel works as nice as carbide when you're cutting a truly round neck I.D. on a truly round mandrel. I'd never say it makes a difference 'on target', though.....
But the discussion was ball micrometers, wasn't it?
Good shootin'. -Al
P.S. A decent set of gauge pins should be a part everyone's neck turning tools.
Butch Lambert
Active member
Tell me what you see wrong with this tool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOjEIyU4IN0#action=share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOjEIyU4IN0#action=share
mwezell
Mike Ezell
I saw that a few days ago...pretty slick. But, it's only as good as the setup and bearings in the machine, plus...his mic didn't read in tenths.
Kevin Gullette
New member
Ok Butch.......
......I'll take a "shot".
The axially fixed case assumes a case body/case neck concentricity.
No allowance for case "banana" effect.
What do I win.......or lose??
Kevin
P.S. Al N. All is well here....but still a bit hot. I see you're still burn'in up the strip. Take care.
......I'll take a "shot".
The axially fixed case assumes a case body/case neck concentricity.
No allowance for case "banana" effect.
What do I win.......or lose??
Kevin
P.S. Al N. All is well here....but still a bit hot. I see you're still burn'in up the strip. Take care.
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Butch Lambert
Active member
......I'll take a "shot".
The axially fixed case assumes a case body/case neck concentricity.
No allowance for case "banana" effect.
What do I win.......or lose??
Kevin
P.S. Al N. All is well here....but still a bit hot. I see you're still burn'in up the strip. Take care.
Tolerance stacking. Al has already mentioned reaming the inside of the necks to smooth them before outside turning. I bought reamers to do that, but found it was a waste of time and money.
jackie schmidt
New member
Solution to a problem that does not exist. Especially boring the inside of the neck, which usually causes more problems than it is expected to cure.
There is no way he can get as fine of a finish with that as comes in a extruded case neck.
Here is my way. Of course, it helps to have a Monarch EE with a turret attachment.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xykoVHY_Lkc
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mwezell
Mike Ezell
I use to do them the same way. It's a hard way to beat.
Not to be argumentative, but as someone with background and family in mfg, "extruded" means something. And cartridge case necks aren't it
Cases are hammered from a button, brought up to a deep cup, trimmed and then simply necked down in a die. Anything extruded MUST be tubular and parallel.
Cases are hammered from a button, brought up to a deep cup, trimmed and then simply necked down in a die. Anything extruded MUST be tubular and parallel.
Tim Singleton
Member
Wow!!!!
The season not even over yet!
The season not even over yet!
WOW!!
So Tim,
start a topic, show us all how to discuss it,
your way.
Teach us all something beyond
WOW!!
How do you neckturn? And why?
Tim Singleton
Member
Pardon the interruption
Apologies
Why does it have to be that way?
All's I'm saying is...... discussion is how we LIVE
Today my kid called..."ooops! I turned the skiddy over in my yard, what do you want me to do?"
So I called around..... and asked my friends...... and we DISCUSSED...... sometimes we disagreed.......
"just hook your Suburban to it and get a running start with a 50ft strap"
"better bring out a dozer and a cable"
"need at least a 20,000lb machine to get that up"
"best call a wrecker"
"offroad forklift there...."
etc etc
And then, once't we got 'er up the REAL fun starts;
"SO FAH'R IT UP!"
"NO!!!! NOOO!!!"
"pop the injectors and run 'er backwards for 30seconds"
"Drain the pan"
"let 'er sit overnight THEN fire"
"better drain back the fuel"
"better push the fuel thru"
"better disconnect all the lines and re-prime"
"you got oil all up in the cylinders now, better pull the head"
and so on....
But ain't none of it BAD This is just how we get stuff DONE in my life!
This is what I thought forums were for
All's I'm saying is...... discussion is how we LIVE
Today my kid called..."ooops! I turned the skiddy over in my yard, what do you want me to do?"
So I called around..... and asked my friends...... and we DISCUSSED...... sometimes we disagreed.......
"just hook your Suburban to it and get a running start with a 50ft strap"
"better bring out a dozer and a cable"
"need at least a 20,000lb machine to get that up"
"best call a wrecker"
"offroad forklift there...."
etc etc
And then, once't we got 'er up the REAL fun starts;
"SO FAH'R IT UP!"
"NO!!!! NOOO!!!"
"pop the injectors and run 'er backwards for 30seconds"
"Drain the pan"
"let 'er sit overnight THEN fire"
"better drain back the fuel"
"better push the fuel thru"
"better disconnect all the lines and re-prime"
"you got oil all up in the cylinders now, better pull the head"
and so on....
But ain't none of it BAD
This is just how we get stuff DONE in my life!This is what I thought forums were for