Annealing made perfect aztec sort

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Lou Murdica

Member
Guys this changes everything. This is one of the greatest things ever invented for a competition shooter. This takes us into the 22nd Century. I always thought the machine was something every competition shooter that Anneals should use. This takes it 10 steps forward.
This is just as important as is a $2000 scope.
This was the greatest thing at the shot show this year. I called and asked President Trump to put it in his speech...he called this morning and said he had forgotten and he was sorry!

Annealing made perfect
 
Three questions on the AMP: (quick edit - I added a third)

1) Is anyone using them in short-range BR? I understand the benefit at 600 & 1000 yards
2) How often are you annealing the necks after fire-forming?
3) Has performance improved?

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
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Lee Martin said:
Three questions on the AMP: (quick edit - I added a third)

1) Is anyone using them in short-range BR? I understand the benefit at 600 & 1000 yards
2) How often are you annealing the necks after fire-forming?
3) Has performance improved?

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
Click to expand...

Lee. I have been using one for about 2 years now. I shoot SR score. I anneal every-3-4 firings even thought the people at AMP suggest that you do it after every firing. The thing that I have noticed is that when I seat bullets, they are more uniform as far as seating pressure goes. I have a gauge to measure seating force. As far as performance improvement, there are too many variables in this sport to say that using a AMP vs a BS annealer will improve your scores. I've been shooting now for 5 seasons and every season I have been shooting better. I can't say that it's attributed to any one thing. I've bought so many of the latest greatest gadgets that there is no way of knowing for sure what is working or not. Bottom line Lee, if you can afford one buy it. I wouldn't care if the thing cost 5 grand I'd buy one. It's more precise than any torch, it's easier to set-up and use. It's way safer, it's just a better mousetrap.
 
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Many thanks Jim. That was the sort of feedback I was after. I'll likely buy one once I talk to them about a custom pilot (my score gun is a 30 caliber wildcat).

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
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I referenced their chart and was impressed. My .30 Stingray is a 40 degree .30 Major with the shoulder pushed ahead 35-thou. I wrote AMP to see what they recommend for the pilot.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
Lee Martin said:
I referenced their chart and was impressed. My .30 Stingray is a 40 degree .30 Major with the shoulder pushed ahead 35-thou. I wrote AMP to see what they recommend for the pilot.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
Click to expand...

Lee. I sometimes shoot a cartridge called the 30 Gorilla. It's Larry Feusse's pet project. It's a 30 Major with a 35 degree shoulder. Also this year I'm shooting a new cartridge called the 30 Thrasher. It was Smokin Joe Entrekin's pet project maybe 18 years ago. I purchased the whole works from him, barrel, cases, reamer, all sorts of dies ect. It's a lengthened 30BR case with a 40 degree shoulder. You neck it up and trim the case to OAL, then FF it of the case mouth like a rimless pistol cartridge. The cases come out pretty slick.
 
Been using mine for 2 years

Lee Martin said:
Three questions on the AMP: (quick edit - I added a third)

1) Is anyone using them in short-range BR? I understand the benefit at 600 & 1000 yards
2) How often are you annealing the necks after fire-forming?
3) Has performance improved?

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
Click to expand...

Been using mine for 2 years for short range BR as well as my hunting calibres. I anneal each time I fire the brass except for the cases I load at the range. Has performance improved ? I haven't and that's the main issue. But I have had to toss less brass. If the primer pockets stay firm they just keep going.
 
Jim Pag said:
Lee. I sometimes shoot a cartridge called the 30 Gorilla. It's Larry Feusse's pet project. It's a 30 Major with a 35 degree shoulder. Also this year I'm shooting a new cartridge called the 30 Thrasher. It was Smokin Joe Entrekin's pet project maybe 18 years ago. I purchased the whole works from him, barrel, cases, reamer, all sorts of dies ect. It's a lengthened 30BR case with a 40 degree shoulder. You neck it up and trim the case to OAL, then FF it of the case mouth like a rimless pistol cartridge. The cases come out pretty slick.
Click to expand...

I considered doing the Gorilla. Then I remembered Larry wrote about getting a hair more powder in with the sharper shoulder. I just went up another 5 degrees and pushed it forward 0.035". These aren't big changes, but they get me real close to 30 BR capacity.

BTW, I sent Alex at AMP my chamber print. He wrote back and said a #33 pilot would be perfect for my Stingray. A #33 is for the 7.62x39. Different shoulder angle and body taper than my .30, but he claims it'll work.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
Lee Martin said:
Three questions on the AMP: (quick edit - I added a third)

1) Is anyone using them in short-range BR? I understand the benefit at 600 & 1000 yards
2) How often are you annealing the necks after fire-forming?
3) Has performance improved?

-Lee
www.singleactions.com
Click to expand...

Lee,

Here is a post I made concerning the AMP a while back on another website. The thread was asking questions a little different than yours but I think that what I have found will help you out:

"I keep my brass in lots for each rifle, for example my heavy gun has 195 pieces of brass in the lot. All same lot# from Lapua, all made at the same, same neck turner setting, same amount of firings (within 1), etc. Basically as identical as possible.

Before I got an AMP I would usually see three distinct groups of seating force with this brass. Each piece of brass within a group was within 5 inch pounds of the rest, with three total 5 in/lb groups. About 5% of those 195 pieces usually fell outside of that range and were used as foulers.

I now anneal after every firing.

Clean necks > anneal > size

I am seating using the K&M Arbor Press with Force Pack, which allows me to see what my seating pressure is.

After the first time annealing with the AMP all 195 pieces were within 5 in/lb of each other.

After the second time they were all within 2 in/lb of each other.

The 2 in/lb has remained constant so far. "

Hope this helps!

On a purely personal and probably pointless note, the AMP is an absolute pleasure to use. I am usually grinning like a kid on Christmas when using my AMP.
 
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So...

To piggyback off of Lee...are any of you SR group competitors annealing? If so, is it helping or are you shooting the same as always?

The technology is very cool, but I'm wondering where something like this falls in the order of importance as far as equipment goes for the SR group crowd. Lot's of ways to spend $1000 plus.
 
jimmymac said:
To piggyback off of Lee...are any of you SR group competitors annealing? If so, is it helping or are you shooting the same as always?

The technology is very cool, but I'm wondering where something like this falls in the order of importance as far as equipment goes for the SR group crowd. Lot's of ways to spend $1000 plus.
Click to expand...

If you do a bit of math, and depending on how many cases you prep for a barrel, you would be able to determine the number of firings on each case (approx) you would accumulate during a match.

So to make it easy 20 cases and fire approx 200 - 250 rounds at a match (tune, practice, LV & HV) then each case would be fired 10+ times.

I've never found enough time to anneal my brass during a match, but if you have power at the range you could anneal at the end of each day but given that some of the brass is bin material after a LV/HV match because of primer pocket issues, I think the US$1099 price tag would buy a lot of brass.

I can certainly understand the need for annealing for long distance competition, but the question I've got is does it matter if each case is annealed to what someone says is the perfect specification or that each case is annealed consistantly the same as each other case no matter which way this is achieved.

Ian
 
Ian_Owen said:
If you do a bit of math, and depending on how many cases you prep for a barrel, you would be able to determine the number of firings on each case (approx) you would accumulate during a match.

So to make it easy 20 cases and fire approx 200 - 250 rounds at a match (tune, practice, LV & HV) then each case would be fired 10+ times.

I've never found enough time to anneal my brass during a match, but if you have power at the range you could anneal at the end of each day but given that some of the brass is bin material after a LV/HV match because of primer pocket issues, I think the US$1099 price tag would buy a lot of brass.

I can certainly understand the need for annealing for long distance competition, but the question I've got is does it matter if each case is annealed to what someone says is the perfect specification or that each case is annealed consistantly the same as each other case no matter which way this is achieved.

Ian
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input Ian. That makes a lot of sense to me. Best regards. Jim
 
Regarding cases,

I have about 500 prepared 30 BR cases.I have always preloaded and when I was shooting two rifles per match I carried 100 rounds per rifle, in a neat little plastic box. I tried to keep them annealed after every 6 firings. I did notice that there were inconsistencies in seating that developed after three or four firings but I always felt the cases seemed the most uniform on the second loading after annealing.

Some of the cases I have are some of the originals I had from my first 30 BR. We got on to annealing early on and a partner and I bought a Ken Light machine. I do think the Induction is a better way to anneal and have thought so since seeing the lad do it with the automotive annealer way back.

In the twilight of my shooting career, I won't be getting a new machine but induction is the berries, I think. More cases is always better and if they are annealed often, will last indefinitely. Many of those I have I bought cheap from a lad who does not anneal.

An important issue with consistent seating is removing the patena from the inside of the neck, just sayin. It is a PIA but worth doing. I don't mean just carbon but the oxide that forms. The shinier the better; they will dull up soon enough. That is an area where inconsistencies develop.
Pete
 
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Henry

was 84 when the female scent caught his attention again and he stopped shooting. You have a long way to go if you are lucky. Don't put yourself in a wheelchair too soon...mentally at least.

Pete Wass said:
I have about 500 prepared 30 BR cases.I have always preloaded and when I was shooting two rifles per match I carried 100 rounds per rifle, in a neat little plastic box. I tried to keep them annealed after every 6 firings. I did notice that there were inconsistencies in seating that developed after three or four firings but I always felt the cases seemed the most uniform on the second loading after annealing.

Some of the cases I have are some of the originals I had from my first 30 BR. We got on to annealing early on and a partner and I bought a Ken Light machine. I do think the Induction is a better way to anneal and have thought so since seeing the lad do it with the automotive annealer way back.

In the twilight of my shooting career, I won't be getting a new machine but induction is the berries, I think. More cases is always better and if they are annealed often, will last indefinitely. Many of those I have I bought cheap from a lad who does not anneal.

An important issue with consistent seating is removing the patena from the inside of the neck, just sayin. It is a PIA but worth doing. I don't mean just carbon but the oxide that forms. The shinier the better; they will dull up soon enough. That is an area where inconsistencies develop.
Pete
Click to expand...
 
I purchased one of these @ 1 1/2 years ago mainly for my LR shooting 6BR,6.5/284 etc.
I now use it on all my cases including my 6PPC & 30 BR SR cases.
As to shooting any better at short range with the cases annealed that I can't answer definitively, but I can tell you that my seating pressure is much more consistent across the batch of cases
.
It doesn't take that long to do It's just an added step between cleaning the necks and sizing the cases.
I loaded my cases 5 times at the Cactus (50 LV and 50 HV) and annealed after each firing.

I did find on the LR cases that the SD and ES were lower on annealed cases.
My guess would be this is a result of more consistent neck tension, I never chrono my 6PPC loads so don't know if this holds true for them as well.
One thing you definitely need to do is brush the inside of the case necks after annealing with something. I use a nylon brush which seems to smooth things up. The annealing burns everything off the neck so it is "squeaky clean" on the inside. Seating pressure goes way up if you don't!

I am excited about there Aztec upgrade, may have to order it.
I agree with Lou this thing is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

Is it worth it? Only you can answer that.
All I know is it makes me feel better when I sit down behind my rifle, like a multitude of other things I do that may not make a difference.
Maybe if Louie will let me spend a few days in the tunnel I can give a better answer.
Regards,
Greg
 
I can remember when annealing was a big joke at the Super Shoot...... now, what we were doing at long range for years is no longer a joke........ jim
 
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