Air Rifle Decision

[alinwa]

Ya got to pay some serious money for one but there are Air Rifles that are capable of shooting as accurately as other Benchrest Rifles, even some of the "Field Models" are also capable. I have a little CZ I paid around $500 for that is competitive at Benchrest. I also have an Air Arms EV2 that is competitive at Benchrest but it cost something over $1800. Both are .117's. I would like to try a .20 or .22 sometime. One can find super accurate Air Rifles but ya got to pay for the accuracy. The RAW rifles are super accurate, from what I have seen.

Pete

I wish it were true Pete!

In fact, I wish it TO BE TRUE...... how many times do I have to say this????

"NAME A SETUP........TELL ME WHAT WILL SHOOT TO .250 ACCURACY........ and I'll buy one!"

Geeez...... this ain't rocket science. But I've been hearing about "so and so" and "such and such" and "How much money" for so long I'm about sick of it.

So Pete......you own rifles that will shoot 1/4 inch groups at 200yds... have you ever imagined what this is a 25yds??? Are you SERIOUS? You have air rifles that will shoot one smaller hole at 25yds? I've got a dozen setups that AT 100 YARDS will just make the hole smaller on a good day. Are you actually telling me that your 1800.00 air rifle will actually put ten shots thru a round hole at 25yds?

And can you HUNT with it?????

Tell me more!

al

 

[sgeorge]

Al,

"no, a PPC"

You running for office somewhere, back peddling already.

"is it not true that a 750 can be scored with a well-centered .250 group?
A simple yes or no will suffice"

If you are talking about a 75 shot group, then the answer is yes.

Are you going to shoot a 75 shot group in your attempt to beat an air rifle and make your point? How about this, since you no longer trust your trusty 30-06. Shoot your PPC over your rolled up coat at 200 yards using the appropriate VFS targets and shoot 3 consecutive 250s.

 

[alinwa]

Al,

"no, a PPC"

You running for office somewhere, back peddling already.

"is it not true that a 750 can be scored with a well-centered .250 group?
A simple yes or no will suffice"

If you are talking about a 75 shot group, then the answer is yes.

Are you going to shoot a 75 shot group in your attempt to beat an air rifle and make your point? How about this, since you no longer trust your trusty 30-06. Shoot your PPC over your rolled up coat at 200 yards using the appropriate VFS targets and shoot 3 consecutive 250s.

You're not lissening

And you keep changing the subject.

I stated "an air rifle will not shoot as well as a 30-06"...... I stand by this. I have several 30-06's which easily achieve 1/4moa accuracy at any yardage out to 300yds.

Do you have an air rifle which will shoot 1/4moa consistently at any distance? If so, I'm intrigued. Incidentally this will be hard to measure at 10M, still hard at 25yds........


And I furthermore stated that "I can shoot groups at 250yds that measure smaller than you air rifle shoots at 25yds........ I stand by this. I have a number of rifles which will easily produce 1/4" groups at 250yds. A lot of them. I even have a 30-06 which would give this a run, but I would use a 6PPC if there were a contest held.

Do you have an air rifle which will shoot 1/4" groups at 25yds? If so, I'm intrigued.

So, instead of bandying words, answer the questions.......

#1, AM I WRONG? Are there 1/4moa air rifles these days?

#2, AM I WRONG? Are there 1moa air rifles? (1/4" @ 25yds)

I'm happy to be shown to BE wrong but arguments including barstools, inferences and attitudes don't get it done.


I expect an honest answer from Pete Wass, he actually shoots both systems. 1/4moa Peter???? REALLY?

al

 

[sgeorge]

Al,

"You're not lissening"

I thought I was but your conversations are difficult to follow. Now, I know that isn't the truth but if I say what I'm thinking Wilbur will get upset.

"And you keep changing the subject."

I would have said the same about you.

"I can shoot groups at 250yds that measure smaller than you air rifle shoots at 25yds........ I stand by this."

Then why not prove it rather than posting more messages? Is this 5 shot groups or 75 shot groups? Is this shot over your rolled up coat? If it is 5 shot groups, I can post pictures shot at 30 yards that your 30-06 will NOT measure smaller even if you shoot until the next Ice Age. Your 6PPC might be capable. A 5 shot group that measures .285 edge to edge minus the .224 of the .22 caliber pellet gives a .061 c-t-c group. I will be waiting for the results of your 250 yard, 5 shot group but I will not hold my breath.

"Do you have an air rifle which will shoot 1/4moa consistently at any distance?"

You certainly didn't put that "any distance" qualification on your centerfire rifle requirement and we all know why. It's because YOU love to bandy the words.

"#1, AM I WRONG? Are there 1/4moa air rifles these days?" YES, most of the guys and gals that shoot air rifle benchrest have reported 5 shot groups that, if measured c-t-c, would go .060-.070.

"#2, AM I WRONG? Are there 1moa air rifles? (1/4" @ 25yds)" YES, as you have already figured out, a well centered .250, 75 shot group equates to a 750. That shows consistency.

This is not an issue of someone being right or wrong. It is an issue of expectations.

Is a finely tuned centerfire benchrest rifle more accurate than a like air rifle? YES. If there were air rifles that were capable, why would anyone put up with what is necessary to make the centerfire benchrest rifle shoot to your level of expectation.

Is everyone willing to buy custom bullets made with precision jackets, meter powder, search out benchrest quality primers, spend hours prepping state of the art brass and deal with the recoil and possible catastrophic events during reloading and firing that gunpowder brings? NO.

Are some intrigued and challenged by shooting small lead pellets that lack all quality control using nothing but a pulse of high pressure air? YES.

You are obviously looking for an air rifle winging by with that herd of unicorns. As I said, forget about air rifles.

 

[alinwa]

Al,

"You're not lissening"

I thought I was but your conversations are difficult to follow. Now, I know that isn't the truth but if I say what I'm thinking Wilbur will get upset.

"And you keep changing the subject."

I would have said the same about you.

"I can shoot groups at 250yds that measure smaller than you air rifle shoots at 25yds........ I stand by this."

Then why not prove it rather than posting more messages? Is this 5 shot groups or 75 shot groups? Is this shot over your rolled up coat? If it is 5 shot groups, I can post pictures shot at 30 yards that your 30-06 will NOT measure smaller even if you shoot until the next Ice Age. Your 6PPC might be capable. A 5 shot group that measures .285 edge to edge minus the .224 of the .22 caliber pellet gives a .061 c-t-c group. I will be waiting for the results of your 250 yard, 5 shot group but I will not hold my breath.

"Do you have an air rifle which will shoot 1/4moa consistently at any distance?"

You certainly didn't put that "any distance" qualification on your centerfire rifle requirement and we all know why. It's because YOU love to bandy the words.

"#1, AM I WRONG? Are there 1/4moa air rifles these days?" YES, most of the guys and gals that shoot air rifle benchrest have reported 5 shot groups that, if measured c-t-c, would go .060-.070.

"#2, AM I WRONG? Are there 1moa air rifles? (1/4" @ 25yds)" YES, as you have already figured out, a well centered .250, 75 shot group equates to a 750. That shows consistency.

This is not an issue of someone being right or wrong. It is an issue of expectations.

Is a finely tuned centerfire benchrest rifle more accurate than a like air rifle? YES. If there were air rifles that were capable, why would anyone put up with what is necessary to make the centerfire benchrest rifle shoot to your level of expectation.

Is everyone willing to buy custom bullets made with precision jackets, meter powder, search out benchrest quality primers, spend hours prepping state of the art brass and deal with the recoil and possible catastrophic events during reloading and firing that gunpowder brings? NO.

Are some intrigued and challenged by shooting small lead pellets that lack all quality control using nothing but a pulse of high pressure air? YES.

You are obviously looking for an air rifle winging by with that herd of unicorns. As I said, forget about air rifles.

Then why not prove it rather than posting more messages? Is this 5 shot groups or 75 shot groups? Is this shot over your rolled up coat? If it is 5 shot groups, I can post pictures shot at 30 yards that your 30-06 will NOT measure smaller even if you shoot until the next Ice Age. Your 6PPC might be capable. A 5 shot group that measures .285 edge to edge minus the .224 of the .22 caliber pellet gives a .061 c-t-c group. I will be waiting for the results of your 250 yard, 5 shot group but I will not hold my breath.

There's nothing to "prove"...... this isn't about "me," never was. If you're even marginally familiar with accurate centerfire rifles and can read match reports you will see that it's no big deal to shoot a 1/4" group at 250yds. I can go shoot one "on call" to prove a point to a friend but all you have to do is just read a CF match report.

Your measuring method is flawed, you don't "subtract .224" to get c-t-c group size but that said, THANK YOU for clarifying your position.

You've validated my point irrefutably.....as described your rifles are capable of about 1/2moa agg's and the occasional 1/4moa group.....better by far than anything I've ever seen but I'll take your word for it.

2 questions..... First, what do you and your friends shoot that will "often produce" these 1/4moa groups? (.060-.070 @ 30yds) and Second, can they be hunted?


Ohhh, and btw, don't ever put your money up against "an -06 over a rolled up coat" because I for one would TAKE IT! I can easily AGG .060 groups at 30yds using a 30-06. Not one, not 3 but AGGREGATE groups.


.060 is easy

repeatably

In this ice age

al

 

[drover]

I would have put this in the air rifle section but I think that is just for benchrest - where this question is geared more toward hunting/control/plinking.
I'm trying to decide on which air rifle to buy to shoot critters. Distances would most likely be under 30 yds, but would be nice/fun to reach out a little further. I don't want to use my .22 cause of the sound level (Bugs Bunny in my garden in town) - yet still need something powerful enough to "do the job" Narrowed it down to

Benjamin Titan GP Nitro Piston http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Benjamin_Titan_GP_Nitro_Piston_Air_Rifle/2603/5329
Gamo Whisper with crossman nitro piston http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Gamo_Whisper_with_Nitro_Piston/1509/2732

Any suggestions?

Thanks for your time.

Stanley

Forget the air rifle - buy some CB caps for your 22 and it will be as quiet and at least as effective as air rifle pellets, and at least as accurate at the ranges you are referring to.

drover

 

[sgeorge]

Al,

"I can easily AGG .060 groups at 30yds using a 30-06. Not one, not 3 but AGGREGATE groups.
.060 is easy
repeatably
In this ice age"

At 30 yards, I should hope so. Do you even read what you write?

Please, forget about air rifles, best for all concerned. If you choose to charge forward, there is a forum, especially for guys like you. Called the yellow forum, all of your answers are over there.

 

[coyotechet]

Here is what a 25.cal FX smooth twist will do at 20 yards. Below is a couple of pictures of an empty 45 ACP case that was shot today with the FX Air rifle. The case was free standing on a 2X4 at 20 yds. and shot with the 25 cal. FX , pellet went thru both side's of the empty brass case and thru the empty case half way across the basement. Don't know the velocity of 25.3 gr pellet but it does show that it has some power.

Chet

 

[alinwa]

Al,

"I can easily AGG .060 groups at 30yds using a 30-06. Not one, not 3 but AGGREGATE groups.
.060 is easy
repeatably
In this ice age"

At 30 yards, I should hope so. Do you even read what you write?

Please, forget about air rifles, best for all concerned. If you choose to charge forward, there is a forum, especially for guys like you. Called the yellow forum, all of your answers are over there.

You're kindofa' rude liddle fellow eh??? I was simply using your numbers, your expressions.

Sorry this thread went this way........

al

 

[alinwa]

Here is what a 25.cal FX smooth twist will do at 20 yards. Below is a couple of pictures of an empty 45 ACP case that was shot today with the FX Air rifle. The case was free standing on a 2X4 at 20 yds. and shot with the 25 cal. FX , pellet went thru both side's of the empty brass case and thru the empty case half way across the basement. Don't know the velocity of 25.3 gr pellet but it does show that it has some power.

Chet


View attachment 15312 View attachment 15313

That looks downright huntable right there Is the rifle capable of hitting the shell casing every time at 20yds?

 

[coyotechet]

We where shooting 22 rim fires shells off the same 2X4 at 20 yards and never missed once. We where using a bald eagle front rest and standard rear sand bag and a 18 power scope. John just got this air rifle last week Very well made gun. It is the FX Indy made in Sweden not cheap.
Chet

 

[alinwa]

We where shooting 22 rim fires shells off the same 2X4 at 20 yards and never missed once. We where using a bald eagle front rest and standard rear sand bag and a 18 power scope. John just got this air rifle last week Very well made gun. It is the FX Indy made in Sweden not cheap.


Chet

Thanks, I'll look it up.

 

[alinwa]

We where shooting 22 rim fires shells off the same 2X4 at 20 yards and never missed once. We where using a bald eagle front rest and standard rear sand bag and a 18 power scope. John just got this air rifle last week Very well made gun. It is the FX Indy made in Sweden not cheap.
Chet

Coyotechet thank you! That is simply the most amazing and useful air rifle I've ever seen. I've spent the last couple hrs researching the 'Independence' (not really into the bullpup design) and I'm seeing one in my near future.

awesome

thanxagain

al