Air Rifle Decision

Accuracy and sweet triggers - all well and good. But the OP also needs enough energy to pot rabbits (presumably humanely) at long range.

"alinwa" mentioned "20+ fpe".

???

I contend a subsonic 22 rimfire is the better choice, depending on the locale - simply can't have 40-grain slugs straying off the property!
 
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This thread has been very educational for me. Through researching some of your ideas/comments it has proven my ignorance in air rifles. The old saying, "the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know very much" really proved itself here.

I guess my next question is: When does it end? When is good enough actually good enough? I completely understand how having really nice "stuff" spoils us and makes just average "stuff" seem not good enough - even though that average "stuff" would be perfectly adequate.
Perfect example = after shooting/owning benchrest rifles, I can not go to Scheels anymore and buy a hunting rifle..heck no...it won't shoot "good enough" even though a deer/coyote will never know the difference between a Scheel's bought rig and a custom made rig.

I don't think I want to go down that road with air rifles. I just want something that I can stick out the window - shoot the rabbit - and tell the kids "hey look...supper"

On the other hand....I don't have enough money to spend it twice. There has got to be an area, between the two (pieces of crap - top of the line), where I can find the correct rifle. I really don't want to spend 600-1000 to shoot a rabbit that eats $5 worth of veggies. I am willing to spend up to $300. Is it possible to get a "good enough" pellet rifle for that? If not, then I will save my $300 and put it towards bullets :)

Thanks again for your time. Hope everyone has a great fall season

Stanley
 
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James n TN said:
You didn't say an air gun trigger you said name a trigger better than a Jewell. So I did.......
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Clever dodge, by pretending there was no obvious context. However, the record is there for even a casual reader: the statement that "alinwa" was challenging was:

"Yes some air rifles have triggers as good as a 2 oz Jewell." (John S)

Nice try. ;-)
 
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The Weihrauck Rekord trigger for starters.

Or maybe some of the Anschutz setups.

Or the ES FT #7.

If the OP could find an R1 in .22 cal with a Venom Kit he would be very happy:) Very good quality. Not junk and not a toy.
 
John S said:
The Weihrauck Rekord trigger for starters.

Or maybe some of the Anschutz setups.

Or the ES FT #7.

If the OP could find an R1 in .22 cal with a Venom Kit he would be very happy:) Very good quality. Not junk and not a toy.
Click to expand...

I simply disagree.

I own an RX-1 and in my EXPERIENCE it was a significant upgrade over the R1 and yet it has none of the qualities I'm looking for. It's most definitely a toy....and not a very good one considering that a yardsale .22 does everything it can do for 1/10 or even 1/20 the price.

I got really excited about the latest and greatest PCP's when people started shooting deer and hogs with them and even posted over on the airgun forum last year about that drive engine. Sadly enough it doesn't meet my parameters.

I went out and spent time with them, real hands-on TIME not the idle speculation generated by the reading of the glossies. I READ the glossies, I BOUGHT the hype. But them I went out and shot them. I'm blessed with wonderful friends who have cool toys. I was able to test what the glossies spouted. And the reality fell far short of the hype. Believe me I'd LOVE one of those tuned up Sumo's or other lovingly crafted, handmade creation but I just can't stand rifles that are inaccurate. And back when I had no money and was a liberal I believed that "the Europeans were may ahead of us..." I started getting the Beeman catalogues and magazines years before I ever bought a "European air rifle." I knew how to spell Weihrauch and Anschutz, Theoben and Feinwerkbau. I read the "reviews" and comparisons between Walther and Hammerli, thinking that "Olympic Level Accuracy must be just one little hole.......... And then I learned how to get money, and I got enough to actually DO stuff instead of just dream about it.....

And I met some competitors.

And I SAW the groups these Olympians were shooting.....

And I held and fired some of the guns.

And was unimpressed.

Maybe something WILL change, maybe someone will come up with some real bullets for instance, but for now they're just not refined enough to be interesting to me. And I'm a guy who has fired hundreds of airgun rounds within the last week.....canracing with BB's from Daisy lever-cockers!! :)



opinionby












al
 
sgeorge said:
Trigger is easy. Better than a Jewell. Clone of an Anschutz 5065 done with custom machined aluminum and heat treated sear by an exceptional machinist on the west coast.

1/4 MOA at 50 yards, indoors, is tougher since all indoor shooting is at 25 yards. Extrapolate it out. 2mm OD 10 ring, plugged with .224, 750 is commonplace and 59X is USA record. X count record is sure to fall this winter. An X is scored when you wipe out that 2mm OD 10 ring.

Things have come a long way.
Click to expand...

I don't know where some of this stuff comes from...... but wherever it is that "all indoor shooting is at 25 yards" it ain't where I'VE been on this planet.

Maybe it's different where you are but IME "most" indoor shooting is on the 10M setup.

And I will agree that the 5065 is a fine trigger....."better?" I won't agree, but a good 1oz trigger.
 
There's an "influence" within air rifles that is somewhat spectacular. Folks are making those darn things shoot pretty straight these days. I don't know enough about it to really say but that's what it reads like - pretty straight these days.
 
Maybe when I wrote, "all indoor shooting is at 25 yards", I should have mentioned that I was referring to air rifle benchrest.

As far as triggers, we will have to disagree, especially, since you have no experience with the one I am speaking of. If you understand how the 5065 works, you already know why this is a significant improvement for those in air rifle benchrest. The cloned version is more on the level of the Bix 'n Andy trigger than the current Jewells.

In addition, since you attempted to take a shot at the Sumo action, this action recently was part of the equipment that shot the first 750, outdoors, at 25 meters. Again, that is on a target with a 2mm OD 10 ring. Normally, I would apologize if this would not meet your accuracy requirements but, deep down, I'm glad. You stick with your 6 PPC.
 
Getting back on topic...

Any legal issues aside, the 25 cal Benjamin Marauder does a fine job of pest control. It is, however, a PCP.

You can play with the factory trigger, but it is two stage. Drives me crazy. I'd love to have a crisp single stage at a pound or two. But *crisp*.
 
sgeorge said:
Maybe when I wrote, "all indoor shooting is at 25 yards", I should have mentioned that I was referring to air rifle benchrest.

As far as triggers, we will have to disagree, especially, since you have no experience with the one I am speaking of. If you understand how the 5065 works, you already know why this is a significant improvement for those in air rifle benchrest. The cloned version is more on the level of the Bix 'n Andy trigger than the current Jewells.

In addition, since you attempted to take a shot at the Sumo action, this action recently was part of the equipment that shot the first 750, outdoors, at 25 meters. Again, that is on a target with a 2mm OD 10 ring. Normally, I would apologize if this would not meet your accuracy requirements but, deep down, I'm glad. You stick with your 6 PPC.
Click to expand...

I didn't take a shot at the Sumo, I'd like to own one, or any air rifle that will shoot as accurately as a centerfire. If you really do know of an air rifle even 1/2 as accurate as a centerfire then please enlighten us :) I WANT ONE.....

As I see it hitting the 10 ring every time requires less than 1moa accuracy.......... what am I missing?

I could easily shoot a 750 with a 30-06, shooting over a rolled up coat.

You think I'm picking on something. I'm just stating the facts.

As I see them

I've been trying to get an accurate airgun for 20yrs.

al
 
SGJennings said:
Getting back on topic...

Any legal issues aside, the 25 cal Benjamin Marauder does a fine job of pest control. It is, however, a PCP.

You can play with the factory trigger, but it is two stage. Drives me crazy. I'd love to have a crisp single stage at a pound or two. But *crisp*.
Click to expand...

The Marauder is the one that got me excited......this article and others ... http://varmintair.typepad.com/varmi...ooting-beeman-kodiaks-at-50-and-65-yards.html

So I went out and shot some.

al
 
"any air rifle that will shoot as accurately as a centerfire."

This comment made me laugh, it was funny. That was until I knew you were serious by giving us this qualification,

"even 1/2 as accurate as a centerfire then please enlighten us"

Now, should this be at 100 yards, 600 yards or 1,000 yards?
While you're looking for this air rifle, I need a truck to haul some horses. Needs to get up to highway speeds quickly and be really comfortable. I want it to be at least 1/2 as fuel efficient as these new hybrids, so say, 40 mpg.

"what am I missing?"

Nothing, nothing at all. You just keep shooting that 30-06 over that rolled up coat.

"I'm just stating the facts."

Yes, facts as you see them. By the way, that truck I need, how about under $15,000?
 
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sgeorge said:
"any air rifle that will shoot as accurately as a centerfire."

This comment made me laugh, it was funny. That was until I knew you were serious by giving us this qualification,

"even 1/2 as accurate as a centerfire then please enlighten us"

Now, should this be at 100 yards, 600 yards or 1,000 yards?
While you're looking for this air rifle, I need a truck to haul some horses. Needs to get up to highway speeds quickly and be really comfortable. I want it to be at least 1/2 as fuel efficient as these new hybrids, so say, 40 mpg.

"what am I missing?"

Nothing, nothing at all. You just keep shooting that 30-06 over that rolled up coat.

"I'm just stating the facts."

Yes, facts as you see them. By the way, that truck I need, how about under $15,000?
Click to expand...

sgeorge,

by using the term "moa" it should be clear even to a rank neophyte that yardage is immaterial. I really do not care if the contest is held at 10yds, or 25yds or 50yds. Obviously we will work within the parameters of the system.

The simple FACT is that air rifles are incapable of good accuracy at even 25yds.....

The simple FACT is that the air rifles of today DO NOT SHOOT AS WELL AS A 30-06.

The simple FACT is that it took 25yrs for someone to luck into a single 1/4moa group at 25yds!

The simple FACT is that airguns are not accurate, in fact, moa aside, I can shoot SMALLER GROUPS measured c-t-c IN INCHES at 250yds using a centerfire rifle that the air rifle is capable of at 25yds. That's actually TEN TIMES more accurate.

Laff all you want.

Show me an accurate air rifle and I will buy it.

al
 
You are a funny guy. So many facts, so little time.

We do need to define a few things but before we do that, a question.

Are you going to shoot your 30-06 over your rolled up coat at 250 yards and shoot a 5 shot group, measured c-t-c IN INCHES and beat an air rifle shooting the same and measured the same at 25 yards?

A simple yes or no will do.
 
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Your facts are questionable Al

alinwa said:
sgeorge,

by using the term "moa" it should be clear even to a rank neophyte that yardage is immaterial. I really do not care if the contest is held at 10yds, or 25yds or 50yds. Obviously we will work within the parameters of the system.

The simple FACT is that air rifles are incapable of good accuracy at even 25yds.....

The simple FACT is that the air rifles of today DO NOT SHOOT AS WELL AS A 30-06.

The simple FACT is that it took 25yrs for someone to luck into a single 1/4moa group at 25yds!

The simple FACT is that airguns are not accurate, in fact, moa aside, I can shoot SMALLER GROUPS measured c-t-c IN INCHES at 250yds using a centerfire rifle that the air rifle is capable of at 25yds. That's actually TEN TIMES more accurate.

Laff all you want.

Show me an accurate air rifle and I will buy it.

al
Click to expand...

Ya got to pay some serious money for one but there are Air Rifles that are capable of shooting as accurately as other Benchrest Rifles, even some of the "Field Models" are also capable. I have a little CZ I paid around $500 for that is competitive at Benchrest. I also have an Air Arms EV2 that is competitive at Benchrest but it cost something over $1800. Both are .117's. I would like to try a .20 or .22 sometime. One can find super accurate Air Rifles but ya got to pay for the accuracy. The RAW rifles are super accurate, from what I have seen.

Pete
 
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sgeorge said:
You are a funny guy. So many facts, so little time.

We do need to define a few things but before we do that, a question.

Are you going to shoot your 30-06 over your rolled up coat at 250 yards and shoot a 5 shot group, measured c-t-c IN INCHES and beat an air rifle shooting the same and measured the same at 25 yards?

A simple yes or no will do.
Click to expand...

no, a PPC
 
sgeorge,

is it not true that a 750 can be scored with a well-centered .250 group?

A simple yes or no will suffice :)

al
 
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