50 & 100 yard tuner tuning?

J

JJ-IA

New member
Just to set the stage, I shoot the sporter & custom class at club matches where tuners are not allowed.
We shoot almost an equal amount of 50 and 100 yard matches during the year, frequently both yardages at the same match.
I’m thinking about getting a gun for the unlimited class where tuners are allowed, or adding a tuner to my custom bumping it into unlimited.

Here’s the question.
Has anyone tuned their rifle for the least amount of vertical & best groups/scores at 100 yards, and how did that same tuner setting hold up at 50 yards?

My observations with the tunerless (if that’s a word) rifles I shoot, ammo that shoots very good at 50 may completely fall apart at 100. But ammo that shoots great at 100 usually performs very good, if not the best, at 50. I sometimes wonder if you guys are looking for your initial tuner settings at the wrong yardage?

Any dual yardage tuner results and observations will be appreciated.
Thanks :)
Jim
 
very , very, interesting

a great point....
hope someone has a answer
 
A friend of mine is ALWAYS telling me to tune the rifle at 100 yards as it is faster/easier to tune at 100 and things will hold at 50. One of these days I'm gonna try it and see. I think doing so would be like training for a 100 meter dash by running 440's. But, maybe he knows what he is talking about. I'm just not curious enough yet. bob finger
 
Tuners

Jim

I have the answer to your question. :rolleyes:

Use the black tape like I told ya too! ! ! ! ! ! ! :eek: :eek:

And let your pops shoot some of that good ammo also.

Twas a good question, hope someone can solve your mystery

See ya Joe or I mean Tony

Snoman
 
in archery, properly tuning a bow is done at 60 yrds..shooting for group size.

if it's tuned at sixty yrds it will be in tune 100% of the time at any shorter distance...but not vice versa.
most tune bows at twenty yrds and then wonder why they have problems at greater distance...i know this is comparing apples to oranges but maybe
not, an arrow is still a projectille....subject to some of the same physics.
:confused:
 
jim sir

i dont shoot rimfire but on the same subject has come upon the centerfire board, i am testing that issue right now with a weak middle intigrated tuner barrel at yardages from 100- 1000yds and from what i see is the only way you can shoot all yardages with one setting is to have level velocities,if not you will use the tuner adjustments to correct the velocity spreads meaning it is then distance dependent .my guess would be the rimfire ammo that shoots well at 100yds and then at 50 has a lower velocity spreads .hope this helps sir. tim in tx
 
Tuners

Jim

I have the answer to your question. :rolleyes:

Use the black tape like I told ya too! ! ! ! ! ! ! :eek: :eek:

And let your pops shoot some of that good ammo also.

Twas a good question, hope someone can solve your mystery

See ya Joe or I mean Tony

Snoman
 
Can someone tell me, other than getting worse, what will happen to a 22 bullet by 100 yards that hasn't happened by 50 yards? :)

It stands to reason that the best tuner setting for 50 yards will be the best tuner setting for all distances. I'll worry about something else.

Concho Bill
 
Gimme a break Snoman… :rolleyes:
And dad’s hard enough to beat the way it is. I’ll paint his shop and mill parts for his tractor, but he isn’t getting my good ammo!


Bill Wynne,
If its anything like the center fire testing I did when I was serious about 100-200 CF/BR, the center of accuracy nodes are farther apart and easier to see on the 100 yard target. And the drawbacks of being on the high or low edge of a node (finding a center that will work in the widest range of climate conditions) is easier to see.

Tim_in_tx
That’s close to what I found in center fire BR also. I tuned my rifle at 200 by doing a ladder test, then tested the three best nodes on the ladder at both 100 and 200 yards for agging ability. I ended up with a average condition load, and a windy as Hell condition load, both of them were as consistent as could be through wide climatic conditions.
I’ll keep track of the center fire forum developments as that is a great interest to me also. But I cant help but wonder if a 100 yard ladder test (by only adjusting the tuner) wouldn’t do a great job of finding the center of the accuracy nodes for rimfire also. Varmint Al’s FEA tests from a year or so ago looked extremely smooth with little chance for ladder test node clumps. But I cant help but wonder if they exist in real life, just like we know they do in center fire.

Jim
 
I'll give you my experience. I shoot the 22 Benchrest silhouette matches similar to what Joe Haller is going to run except we shoot at 65, 75, 100, 150 and 200 meters. Last year I put a tuner on my rifle and it worked well at 50 yards. I shot 5 of the six silhouette matches with the tuner in place and I couldn't tell any difference at 65, 75 and 100 meters BUT at 150 and 200 meters it was flinging shots all over the place. I missed more targets at that range than I ever did. On the last match I finally took the tuner off and shot a 49 out of 50 and so far this year I have shot a 47, 48 and a 50 without the tuner using the exact same ammo.

I have asked the same question and didn't get any better answer than my own experience. Since I don't really compete at 50 yards, the tuner had not made another appearance on the end of my barrel, yet. The ARA matches I do shoot in are club matches and for the time being I am competitive without the tuner. I have a feeling that contrary to what is intuitive in that if it makes better groups at 50 yards, they should be better at 100 yards, may not be true.
 
MKnarr,
Thanks for sharing your experience, it gives me a lot to think about. Tuners and test lots cost about the same, and test lots wouldn’t bump my custom to unlimited.

Jim
 
Tuning & Distance

Tuning compensates for small variations in muzzle velocity. This chart is for centerfire, but a similar chart can be made for rimfire with a ballistic program. If the vertical is tuned out at 100 yards, it will NOT be tuned out at 600 yards. http://www.varmintal.com/aeste.htm#600yards
Good Hunting... from Varmint Al
coyotel.gif
 
Al said "Tuning compensates for small variations in muzzle velocity"

And here I thought we were tuning the tuner to bring the harmonic vibration point of the barrel to the muzzle. Learn something new every day! bob finger
 
Tuning compensates for small variations in muzzle velocity

Right On !!!

Fred K
 
Hold on a minute, if the muzzle is stopped, the bullet don't know what range the target is at, .... When we tune our rifles, the goal is to eliminate verticle by stopping the muzzle. Windage (horizontal) does not even enter into the equation. What am I missing? Thanks, Douglas
 
The muzzle does not completely stop when tuned. When tuned it compensates for the changes in velocity. If it always stopped you would get verticals with different changes in velocity.
Al is right on.
Fred K
 
A typical 22LR

22lr-velocity-variation.png

Here is a chart that shows the trajectory of 22LR 40 gr bullets with a BC of 0.128 and an average velocity of 1050 fps from 0 to 100 yards. It is assumed that the actual velocity varies from 1040 to 1060 fps. The first case is where the vertical is tuned out at 50 yards. In this case the vertical at 100 yards is 7.79-7.46 or 0.33”. The rifle is not in tune for 100 yards.

In the second case the vertical is tuned out at 100 yards. But in this case the vertical at 50 yards is 3.89-3.73 or 0.16”.

Anyone can calculate this for their rifle with its ammo just using free ballistic software. For small variations in muzzle velocity a 22LR rifle in tune at 50 yards is NOT in tune at 100 yards.

Good Hunting... from Varmint Al
coyotel.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hmmm? makes sense I guess, in your example if we tune for 100yds, pretty small differential at 50yds. But doubles if done the other way around? Thanks, Douglas
 
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