42 yards, water test, stopped muzzle

Left or right

Douglas:
You said that all 25 shots were in a straight line, horizontally. In other words, no vertical. How do you know that water in the bore caused that to be? One other thing, in Schuetzen, we call an X, a Flipper. They mark a 25, Highest Value with a red Paddle. In the Military, The Red Paddle , Maggies Drawers, meant you missed the target. Why not call theses bad shots, what they are, a Flier. Of course, these Fliers, can also be bad bullets. Not even the best Ammo in the world, is void of bad bullets.
 
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Gee Fred, I thought a flier was another name for an aviator. Now I'm really confused. Another thread gone to the funnies.

Ken
 
How about calling them a miss... Oops, I guess that would be counfused with a young, unmarried female.. Hmmm, what do we call them..:confused:

Dave
 
Fred

A complete miss was a red flag and called Maggie's drawers. This was way back when I was qualifying with a carbine. Y'all have a good trip.:rolleyes:
Mickey
 
How about wayward score challenged subsonic lead based projectile?

:D
 
Gentlemen, if you haven't been following the controversy regarding tuners (muzzle devices) over on the centerfire board, I can see how my thread could be a bit confusing and I apoligize for that. The only reason I called an errant shot a flipper is because that's what Calfee calls a miss in his writings; when I said my only bad flipper was an 8, that should have been a clue that it was not a 10 or an X. I am also not trying to offer proof that water exists in the bore or that 42yds is the best distance to tune your rifle. I just wanted to report my experience using the procedure described by Calfee, nothing more, nothing less. Some folks on this board said "go ahead and shoot at 42yds and let us know how it works out for you". Another point that seems to be an issue is that 42yds is either done inside or that's the maximum distance he's able to shoot in his backyard; rest assured that neither of these scenarios is correct, the man tests at an outdoor range just like the rest of us. Thanks, Douglas
 
If you want to prove the water in the bore, look through a bore scope. Before the post from Calfee, I kept seeing droplets of moisture. I thought maby it was oil. Since the post,I started working on the tuner as was recomended. It has worked for me. There is water in the bore and it will cause flyers or flippers( not x's). Very good post Douglas. Thank you.
Jim
 
Saturday's results

Did you ever have a bad day? My first card started out real good, first two rows all 10's, I'm thinking man I got this thing down pat. First miss was on #11, still feeling pretty good. I ended up with a 246, not bad for a beginner considering I was shooting against two guys who are state champs and they both shot 248's. My second card was a disaster, first shot was a 6, and my third card was worse. Everything just fell apart, random, capricious and arbitrary, upset to say the least. After thinking about it, one thing I did different during my testing that I did not do during the match was clean the barrel after each card, only ran one dry patch through between cards. In hindsight, what I should have done just for peace of mind, is stuck around, clean the barrel, and shoot one more practice target. But when you're frustrated and perplexed, all you want to do is get the heck out of there. Does this barrel need to be cleaned after each card, I don't know? Tomorrow's another day, thanks, Douglas
 
Testing conditions:

Last year I tuned my sporter indoors at 60 feet indoors, adjusted the action screws, tested different ammo, found the combo that produced the best, roundest, smallest holes possible. I confidently took it out of state for a state or regional match and it sprayed like a drunk with a cleft pallet, so bad I stayed on the sighters and never even shot a record bull. In the midst of the time, I pulled out my torque wrench, reset it to previous settings, switched back to the previous ammo, & it went back to the so-so status it was before my "tuning" and I was able to hurriedly shoot a 244 with it, the best score that barrel ever shot for me.
 
Holy cow, I just fell out of my chair...

"it sprayed like a drunk with a cleft pallet"

Love it
 
Thanks Lynn, you and I know it and so do tons of other guys, they just don't post here. I'm pretty sure and confident I had clear direction, but alas, it needs more attention. The barrel may well need a cleaning each card (it only takes 2min), sometimes simple things like that make the difference. Thanks, Douglas
 
Lynn said:
...yet 35 posts later they are still pouncing...
Click to expand...
Lynn, I was post # 35, and I'm not sure if you mean I was persecuting Mr Calfee, or not. My intention was to provide a humorous anecdote about how differences in the testing situation from the competitive range can bite one (me) squarely on the ass.

There are a myriad of variables in this game, it is quite vexing.
 
Lynn...

Douglas if you do a Wikipedia search you can read about the water in the bore.

I've searched and can't find this. What's it under?
 
1.11% water in the bore

Lynn,
The wiki you cite says the chemical reaction of black powder results in 1.11% water being produced. This is different than "left in the bore" because most of the gas produced in firing exits the bore. The point is that the 1.11% of water spread out through the gas produced & only a small fraction of that gas remains in the bore.

Just for kicks I did a back of the envelope calculation of what volumes of gas 10 grains of carbon (black powder) might be produced.

Assuming 100% conversion, about 1200 ml of gas is produced. A 24" .22 bore is about 16 ml, to that you get about 80 barrel volumes of gas. With only a 50% conversion it's still 40 barrel volumes of gas. So 1/40th of the 1% water is left in the barrel.

I just can't see a way that significant water droplets are left in the bore after firing.

Regards, Ron
 
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