30br vs 6ppc

[chris roland]

if you were going to build a new rig for 100/200 group which way would you go. i know that the 6ppc is pretty much domanating the group field, but after reading some very interesting text about 30br and it being so easy to tune and less temp sensative why not the 30br?

 

[.357Mag]

6mm or .308 cal

Chris -

Howdy !

Everybody and their grandma shoots 6PPC for BR.

Use of .30BR is certainly do-able, but recoil IS a question; esp in the gun wts
the classes currently allow.

Bullet choices for .30 BR are somewhat less in numbers, the they are if one were to go 6mm.

Can't recall the exact term, but a fairly recent PS article showed that
"mathematically ", some .30BR combos could theoretically best the PPC as far a pure accuracy capability goes.

6PPC has been around now, a long time. SOMTHING will take its place.
Not so sure it'll be the .30BR.

I myself like to see new ideas and experimentation; new cartridges and so forth. If we don't see change, things get stagnant.

Best of luck in your endeavors.

Regards,
357Mag

 

[jackie schmidt]

30BR vs 6PPC

I am putting a serious effort into shooting my 30BR in Registered Group Competition.

I have already found out that recoil is a little bit of as problem with the LV-Sporter. The HV is a breeze, about like a 6BR in a 10.5 pound Rifle.

The big question is still, "if the 30 cal only shoots as good as a 6PPC, then why bother".

I am not much into that "just to be different" thing, the official scorer doesn't care what you are shooting. I compete to win, and I honestly think the 30 just might have an edge in pure accuracy potential.

But, the only way to find out is to dive into the deep end and see what happens. I shot my Sporter-LV 30BR at the two 100 yardages at the Bluebonnet, an did quite well. But, I am yet to shoot it at 200.

Ask this question again next year. Either I will have relagated the 30 to score only and continue with the 6PPC, combine it with my 6PPC, or decided to go with the 30 entirely.


I have a 1-17 twist Unlimited Barrel on order. When I get it on my Rail Gun, I will have a better idea which direction I will take.........jackie

 

[Don]

How many Hall of Fame competitors are competing for points using 30br?...................nada, zip, believe me, these are the serious competitors and if they thought there was an edge to getting points, they would switch in a New York minute..............aint happening................Don

 

[virg]

Even if....

if you were going to build a new rig for 100/200 group which way would you go. i know that the 6ppc is pretty much domanating the group field, but after reading some very interesting text about 30br and it being so easy to tune and less temp sensative why not the 30br?

...the accuracy level was the same, why switch except for score matches? The heavier recoil, added cost of bullets and powder, would not make sense.

virg

 

[chris roland]

30br

...the accuracy level was the same, why switch except for score matches? The heavier recoil, added cost of bullets and powder, would not make sense.

virg

why not shoot the 30 br for both. i dont know is why im asking. but to me it would seem to be less headace to load up enough rounds for the 30br that you know is tuned and go to a match and shoot, instead of fumbling around with powder charges and tunning a ppc during the match because for some strange reason for wheather condition changes that happen very often. you could possibly spend more time and money keeping a ppc tuned, not to mention the barrels you burn up. the round count on the br is so much higher.

 

[Hal D.]

why not shoot the 30 br for both. i dont know is why im asking. but to me it would seem to be less headace to load up enough rounds for the 30br that you know is tuned and go to a match and shoot, instead of fumbling around with powder charges and tunning a ppc during the match because for some strange reason for wheather condition changes that happen very often. you could possibly spend more time and money keeping a ppc tuned, not to mention the barrels you burn up. the round count on the br is so much higher.

Don't think for a second that you can compete at the top levels of group shooting with the same load day in and day out with a 30BR. A tuner can certainly aid in that quest, but it can do the same on a 6PPC. Also, I'm pretty well convinced that a LV 30 won't keep up with a LV 6PPC. It just pounds you too much to keep it going for a weekend(or a week at the Nationals). A HV 30BR is a different story.

 

[Dick Grosbier]

How many Hall of Fame competitors are competing for points using 30br?...................nada, .............Don

Actually three I know of, Allie Euber, Lee Euber, and Jim Borden have shot and were favorably impressed with the 30 BR for group purposes. I have had conversations with and if I remember correctly all three have expressed the opinion that the 30BR just might be more competitive than the 6 PPC in HV and Unlimited.

However getting back to the original question for a persons main BR gun 6 or 30 would depend mostly on the Local matches it was to be used in.

Dick

 

[chris roland]

mathes

Actually three I know of, Allie Euber, Lee Euber, and Jim Borden have shot and were favorably impressed with the 30 BR for group purposes. I have had conversations with and if I remember correctly all three have expressed the opinion that the 30BR just might be more competitive than the 6 PPC in HV and Unlimited.

However getting back to the original question for a persons main BR gun 6 or 30 would depend mostly on the Local matches it was to be used in.

Dick

heavy and light varmint at 200yds group at one club and ibs score at the other.

chris

 

[Dick Grosbier]

heavy and light varmint at 200yds group at one club and ibs score at the other.

chris

Well Chris,
If two barrels is not an option I would go with the 30 BR. While I am not a big fan of the 30BR for LV, my current traveling buddy Herbie Llewellyn has apparently just set his second new IBS record with a 10.5 lb 30BR. And 6x shooters regularly shoot 30's in 10lb rifles, so I am just a wimp.

Dick

 

[Pete Wass]

The Recoil Issue:

Most of us who shoot HBR rifles have learned to absorb the recoil from them. I think it is simply a matter of conditioning. Also, a 1" Sorbathane pad will eat a whole lot of the recoil as will one of those PAST shoulder patches. There are often some big scores shot wiith HBR rifles which can only weigh 10 Lbs.

For me, the "Tune Issue' would be a very big one. If the PPC's are as fussy as is printed here and there was a chambering that was nearly Tune Proof, I, for one would be all for conditioning myself for the recoil. I conversed with a gent on the Left Coast who told me he had a "Re-manufactured Shoulder" that would have prohibited him form shooting HBR cased rifles. He had one of those Spring actuated absorbers fit into his HBR rifle and is able to shoot it with regularity. To me those kind of trade offs would be well worth the chasing tune and powder lots all day. With one of the simple tuners, from what I have seen so far, the 30 BR is about as tune neutral as one could get.

Looks like Herbie has learned to "Love the Bomb", eh!

 

[longrange223]

i have to agree,if you only have one gun for both i'd go with the 30br,another option you might look at is the 30 grendel,it's no problem in my 10lb varmint hunter & it'll agg with my br

 

[chris roland]

rifle

i have to agree,if you only have one gun for both i'd go with the 30br,another option you might look at is the 30 grendel,it's no problem in my 10lb varmint hunter & it'll agg with my br

what kind of grougs can a guy expect see in good conditions with a well tuned 30br

 

[Pete Wass]

I'll tell you mine

I shot my one and only Group match @ Dunham's Bay, New Your the last Sunday in February. I had about one bullet of verticle in my groups that I was not able to get out because I went pre-loaded long and shot the best group I got from three lots of 3 at different seating depths. My Agg was .264. I am pretty sure if I had a tuner on the barrel I could have dialed that bullet of verticle out, after seeing one in action. Also, I lost count in one of the matches and shot 6 bullets which incerased that size of that group.

I don't claim to be a group shootetr but on that day, with that 30 BR I though it went pretty well. It was an HV match also. My warmup group measured .116 .

 

[chris roland]

rifle

guys

i know that most of the guys that ill be shooting with will be shooting 6ppc. but on the other hand, just as jackie said im one that wants to try new things and if the 30 will do the job im up for the challange. i will have a lot of time to spend tuning and testing beings im disabled and in a wheelchair, so spending the time to find what will work is not a problem.

input on twist barrel length bullet weights powder, ect would be helpful. wanting to set the gun up for 200yrd group and shoot score from time to time. mostly group.

after reading some of jackies threads and info on 6mmbr i starting to think that there might be somthing to the br provided all the peices are right and the tune is correct with the right driver.

chris

 

[David Halblom]

In answer to that bit of

How many Hall of Fame competitors are competing for points using 30br?...................nada, zip, believe me, these are the serious competitors and if they thought there was an edge to getting points, they would switch in a New York minute..............aint happening................Don

non-question, NOT EVEN SIGNIFICANT. The HOF shooters are already there so why would they care? And those who are in the hunt are NOT about to change horses in mid-stream. So where does your question even have signifigance?

That tirade said, for anyone w/ the least bit of recoil sensitivity, the 30BR is not the LV to build. For group. But as a HV, especially if you are going to shoot BOTH group and score, go for it. You will not give up anything to a 6PPC in accuracy. BUT>>>>>> Be sure the scorer is VERY well aware you are shooting a 30 when you shoot group. Or you will get BADLY mis-measured.

David

 

[Dick Grosbier]

what kind of grougs can a guy expect see in good conditions with a well tuned 30br

Zeroes can be expected, but as has been said many times on this forum individual groups mean very little. The aggregates from a 30 can be as good or better as a PPC and over time we will see. It is very similar to the small primer versus Large primers discussion every now and then someone will say they have tested hundreds of rounds and feel large primers are every bit as good as small primers in a small Benchrest case but the many tens of thousands of rounds fired with the small primer says everyone is convinced otherwise. The 30 BR has only been around as a commonly used BR round for a few years and some of you who have been around for a while will remember I was one of the people who said it would never catch on to replace the PPC even in score competition so obviously opinions change in this game.

Dick

 

[Hal D.]

At the local level, a light 30 can hang with anything on most days. But move up to National competition and see where that light gun gets you. I've done it with light and heavy 30's, and the light gun just won't hang, IMO. At the national level, you can give up NOTHING in any way or you are toast. If you plan to shoot local 200yd matches, then the thirty will do fine. Actually, the rifle itself is much less meaningful when it comes to 200yd matches anyway. It's all about the shooter beyond 100...I may come to eat crow on the light 30 thing, time may tell. I would love it if someone would make a real showing with it, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm off to the Super Shoot in the AM with a couple HV 30BR's in tow. One of them is wearing a LV barrel that came off my main light gun. That barrel shoots lights out, but I don't think I can agg much better than .24XX" on the light gun. On the heavy, I have full confidence that its a teen agg barrel...

 

[chris roland]

national level

At the local level, a light 30 can hang with anything on most days. But move up to National competition and see where that light gun gets you. I've done it with light and heavy 30's, and the light gun just won't hang, IMO. At the national level, you can give up NOTHING in any way or you are toast. If you plan to shoot local 200yd matches, then the thirty will do fine. Actually, the rifle itself is much less meaningful when it comes to 200yd matches anyway. It's all about the shooter beyond 100...I may come to eat crow on the light 30 thing, time may tell. I would love it if someone would make a real showing with it, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm off to the Super Shoot in the AM with a couple HV 30BR's in tow. One of them is wearing a LV barrel that came off my main light gun. That barrel shoots lights out, but I don't think I can agg much better than .24XX" on the light gun. On the heavy, I have full confidence that its a teen agg barrel...

what do you think has to happen for the 30 to start being in the winning line up at the national level

 

[333smitty]

30br Group Sizes

what kind of grougs can a guy expect see in good conditions with a well tuned 30br

I witnessed a couple of groups Jackie Schmidt scored today at the Tomball Gun Club. Jackie broke in a new Kreieger 1-18 twist barrel trying to tame the kick of the mighty 30BR (10.5lb) with no success. He did rip off two screamers early in the afternoon. Both were big zeros or very small ones. Jackie is planning on competing with his new 30br at the next registared match at Midland. Stay tuned!!!

Maybe Jackie will chime in and add more details......