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Jim Pag
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30br vs 6ppc?
- Thread starter TrxR
- Start date
geo.ulrich
Member
Wayne, I calculated the recoil rates, a 10.5 lbs. with a 68gr. 6 mm bullet @ 3400 = 4.39 ft. lbs of energy... a 13.5 lbs with a 115 gr. 30 cal. bullet @ 3000=6.23 ft lbs of energy. The other thing not calculated is torque a 13 twist vs. 18 twist I'm sure that figures in somehow....
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Jim Pag
Guest
Wayne. There is no way on Gods green earth that a 6 is going to have any advantage against a 30 in short range score matches in the IBS or NBRSA based on the recoil factor. That's like using a Pro Stock to compete against a Top Fueler. The pro Stock might win if the Fueler either blows a motor early or crashes. Ya gotta use the right tool for the right job. I mean come on, the 30 has dominated in score ever since Henry and Smokin Joe were let loose and kicked ass wherever they went and then mostly everyone realized there was a better mousetrap. I chuckle to myself when I hear people say a 30BR has a lot of recoil. I've never been recoil sensitive and owned a 460WBY when I was 17 and shot it quite a bit and even made the mistake of trying to shoot it of a bench once. Some form of 30 will always be king in score and a 6PPC will always be king in SR group. Look at what George wrote, 2 more foot pounds difference isn't all that much.
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Kyle Schultz
Member
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Jim Pag
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R.G. Robinett
"That'll never work."
I have seen these discussions where the 30BR and 6PPC are compared in score shooting and have stayed away from them except for one time I did give an opinion- and when I did my comment was ignored so I'll try this again. These discussions only compare bullet diameter and wind. There is more involved- and it is recoil, anyone that has ever shot both 30's and 6's know that the recoil and gun movement on a 30 is much more than a 6MM (even in a 13 1/2 pound rifle) and recoil is a big disadvantage where accuracy is involved. When considering recoil I truly do not think the 30 has an advantage in IBS and NBRSA score matches and think the smaller calibers should have an advantage in UBR matches.
Wayne Corley
For many, over the course of a Grand, 42% more recoil IS a BIG deal - thank you Wayne and George.
RG
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Pete Wass
Well-known member
A friend
who shoots UBR tells me that an exceptional 30 can be commutative in UBR but the shooter and rifle have to be exceptional. I guess this leaves me still wondering why the 6MM becomes more competitive in a game with equalized target sizes? It's as if it becomes more equal somehow, looking at the results. So it would lead one to believe that a 6MM is actually superior, more often, accuracy wise, than a 30. I'm sure the lesser cost of running a 6 comes into play and if more people are using one caliber vs another, results are bound to favor that caliber.
Pete
who shoots UBR tells me that an exceptional 30 can be commutative in UBR but the shooter and rifle have to be exceptional. I guess this leaves me still wondering why the 6MM becomes more competitive in a game with equalized target sizes? It's as if it becomes more equal somehow, looking at the results. So it would lead one to believe that a 6MM is actually superior, more often, accuracy wise, than a 30. I'm sure the lesser cost of running a 6 comes into play and if more people are using one caliber vs another, results are bound to favor that caliber.
Pete
geo.ulrich
Member
So to continue I calculated a .22 with a 53 gr bullet @ 3550 in a 13.5 lbs. rifle = 2.23 ft. lbs of energy. not to hard to figure when the target becomes an equal factor recoil becomes more of an issue...
jackie schmidt
New member
Pete, it went through the proper requirements of being recognized and simply did not make it.
The official NBRSA Records Committee measured the five targets to be .1524.
Good, but not good enough.
I have shot 3 teen ages with a thirty in Registered Group Competition. It is extremly accurate.
But that being said, I shoot the 30 in NBRSA VFS, and my 6PPC in group.
One thing I am fooling with now is shooting the 80 grn Bart’s out of a 6BR at 3500 FPS with 35.2 grns of 4895. My 17 lb Gun with a 27 inch 1-12 twist is chambered in that now. I have shot 5/8 inch 400 yard groups with it. It seems pretty promising.
When I reached out for help getting into cf Everyone steered me to the .30. Better in wind, bigger hole, easier tune, yady yada. We've all heard it before. I just figured if the 6 in more accurate, & I could hit more dots with a 6, dots were what separated the winners from the also came.
I took the advise & glad I did, but I still wonder...but not with my wallet. Someday.
Keith
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I gues the devil
is always in the details but when one considers the first two 250-25's were shot with a 6 by the same shooter, well, we all know they shoot, don't we? In The IBS -NBRSA games, the 30 is the predictable way to go. We have all seen 6's win on the odd day and there was a day when Stanley won a match with his Deuce so ab orations occur.
Pete
is always in the details but when one considers the first two 250-25's were shot with a 6 by the same shooter, well, we all know they shoot, don't we? In The IBS -NBRSA games, the 30 is the predictable way to go. We have all seen 6's win on the odd day and there was a day when Stanley won a match with his Deuce so ab orations occur.
Pete
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Jim Pag
Guest
Well your right Pete a 30 in IBS or NBRSA is the way to go. Back in 2015 I went to the 100-200 meter match in Orangeburg, SC. I stayed in my motorhome at the Orangeburg range from Sunday until Friday and took of to Charleston to shoot at Palmetto on Saturday. I ended up at staying in the driveway in my motorhome at a competitor's house and we talked over a slew of things. He was talking about using a 6 Dasher at 300 yards. He figured that was the way to go. I guess he tried it a number of times with no luck. In the end it seems that people who have tried different 6's at 2 and 300 in SR score always seem to end up going back to some sort of 30. I don't shoot a 30BR anymore at 2 & 300. I've shot a 30x47 variant for 3 seasons now and for one match last year I shot my 30 Thrasher which was Smokin Joe's pet project that he sold me. I think Joe told me he never shot it but he let Randy Robinette shoot it. Maybe Randy can chime in and let me know if that's the story.
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Well i wont be shooting in IBS , NBRSA, OR UBR, as there are none of those matches around here.
These will be local club matches. We shoot three targets with 10 rounds for score per target and unlimited sighters . I think its a 10 or 12 minute time limit per target.
As for rules there is no weight limit. Forend width no more than 3 inches wide . Front rest must have a sandbag in it and must use rear sandbag. No one piece or solid rear rest.
So i could run a 15 or 16 pound rifle and no one would care.
These will be local club matches. We shoot three targets with 10 rounds for score per target and unlimited sighters . I think its a 10 or 12 minute time limit per target.
As for rules there is no weight limit. Forend width no more than 3 inches wide . Front rest must have a sandbag in it and must use rear sandbag. No one piece or solid rear rest.
So i could run a 15 or 16 pound rifle and no one would care.
jackie schmidt
New member
That is pretty much how we handle our Club Matches at Tomball. While we follow the NBRSA Score Format, the top class, The Benchrest Class, is open to any legal fire arm.
I cannot remember in the 12 years anything but a 30 winning the 100. Myself and a couple of other shooters have won the 200 yard matches with a 6mm.
Our two clubs that do these monthly matches are set at 100yd. They do 1 match a year at 150 for a team match (one club vs the other) just to change things up for fun.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Do you shoot the longer case
to use heavy bullets? Jim Goody had a run with his Jag, which is a long cased 30 and Bill Sargent use to shoot a 30-47 I believe. I have never seen what could be gained unless it's to shoot heavier bullets fast.
Pete
to use heavy bullets? Jim Goody had a run with his Jag, which is a long cased 30 and Bill Sargent use to shoot a 30-47 I believe. I have never seen what could be gained unless it's to shoot heavier bullets fast.
Pete
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