No wonder I am loosing so much accuracy. I don't follow you though. You mentioned earlier if my fired case back end measured .470, it would mean I have a pretty tight chamber for Lapua brass . What is you fired brass back end measurement then ?
30BR Bushing Bump Neck Sizing Die ?
- Thread starter danyboy
- Start date
I guess I’ll never know the answer to my previous post question !
Seems back end never gets sized, too close to the web, and that even if FL Redding sizing die back end casts at .466, brass won’t size this low. I got .470’’ after Fl sizing.
Bolt closing resistance, when neck sizing only, comes from headspace tightness . Just tested with candle light sooth.
Danny, sorting through stuff like this can get pretty difficult, via the written word.
Again, I'd encourage you to simply send three fired cases to Harrell's and go from there. They know their stuff, are easy to work with, the dies are stupid-cheap and they'll swap dies with you if you want more/less sizing. It's like hitting the Easy Button.
Circling back to the .470 back end dimension...the trend is to a bit larger than that but the .470 is certainly not an issue for accuracy or sizing, given the correct die.
Good shootin' -Al
Again, I'd encourage you to simply send three fired cases to Harrell's and go from there. They know their stuff, are easy to work with, the dies are stupid-cheap and they'll swap dies with you if you want more/less sizing. It's like hitting the Easy Button.
Circling back to the .470 back end dimension...the trend is to a bit larger than that but the .470 is certainly not an issue for accuracy or sizing, given the correct die.
Good shootin' -Al
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CYanchycki
Club Coordinator
The best thing I ever
Did was consult with Al Nyhus and Randy R when spec'ng my 30BR reamer.
I went with what was Randy's original 30BR and went with the changes he had shared numerous times on the Forums. This was from HIS ORIGINAL print with his recommendations. Randy has since come out with a 2nd generation reamer print.
I ordered my reamer from one of the best, JGS.
I went with the initial recommended Harrel die, a #3. It was WAY TOO aggressive in the back end. I could barely get the brass into the sizer. Called Harrels and orderd a #2 and #2.5. When the dies arrived I tried the #2 and have not looked back. The 2.5 sits idly by.
My brass sizes perfectly. If you follow Tony B's book on using a pair of vernier's at the shoulder before and after sizing, they barely drop down. The 2.5 may move the verniers that much further down but I have no brass issues and click issues.
I think the main reason the #3 was to aggressive was the back end was spec'd slightly larger.
Now to get the perfect die to chamber fit with my PPC. That I have it sizing to aggressively in the shoulder area......
Calvin
Did was consult with Al Nyhus and Randy R when spec'ng my 30BR reamer.
I went with what was Randy's original 30BR and went with the changes he had shared numerous times on the Forums. This was from HIS ORIGINAL print with his recommendations. Randy has since come out with a 2nd generation reamer print.
I ordered my reamer from one of the best, JGS.
I went with the initial recommended Harrel die, a #3. It was WAY TOO aggressive in the back end. I could barely get the brass into the sizer. Called Harrels and orderd a #2 and #2.5. When the dies arrived I tried the #2 and have not looked back. The 2.5 sits idly by.
My brass sizes perfectly. If you follow Tony B's book on using a pair of vernier's at the shoulder before and after sizing, they barely drop down. The 2.5 may move the verniers that much further down but I have no brass issues and click issues.
I think the main reason the #3 was to aggressive was the back end was spec'd slightly larger.
Now to get the perfect die to chamber fit with my PPC. That I have it sizing to aggressively in the shoulder area......
Calvin
R.G. Robinett
"That'll never work."
Thank you, Calvin.
This (red) is correct. The "fit" between the virgin brass (web diameter), chamber, and die must be compatible: virgin brass smaller than chamber (preferably, at least 0.002" smaller, and more doesn't hurt!), and the die must resize, at least back to original diameter. The Harrell's #3 is a perfect "match" for chambers per the [original] diameter specified Ronnie Long and yours truly, which, at 0.4707", verges on "too small" for the [usually] 0.4690-.4695" LAPUA 6BR NORMA brass.
When we began messing with the 30BR, by Ronnie, I 'lucked out' & had a perfect 'match' using an old 7mmBR die - a Redding type 'S' neck-busing die, with the neck-port opened, using a carbide boring-bar, to prevent sizing via the port wall.
Following many years of responding to requests, assisting re-sizing issues, I began recommending the specification of a LARGER web diameter (0.200" ahead of the bolt-face) dimension: 0.4720", or larger. Also, for many years now, I have been recommending increasing the neck Dia. to, at least, 0.331", which simply accommodates thicker, thus more durable neck-walls (for me, the .330" chamber/ 0.0098" wall thickness) has never been and issue.
Last fall, at the request of JGS, and following some discussions, I consented to having my name associated with a 30BR reamer, which JGS has labeled: 30ROBINETTV2. This is an excellent reamer. Contact JGS for specs.
The BIG issue is this: altering a SINGLE dimension makes a reamer, "SOMETHING ELSE" . . . not necessarily good/bad, better/worse, but rather something else . . . JGS will not change dimensions and leave my moniker attached. Keep 'em ON the X! RG
This (red) is correct. The "fit" between the virgin brass (web diameter), chamber, and die must be compatible: virgin brass smaller than chamber (preferably, at least 0.002" smaller, and more doesn't hurt!), and the die must resize, at least back to original diameter. The Harrell's #3 is a perfect "match" for chambers per the [original] diameter specified Ronnie Long and yours truly, which, at 0.4707", verges on "too small" for the [usually] 0.4690-.4695" LAPUA 6BR NORMA brass.
When we began messing with the 30BR, by Ronnie, I 'lucked out' & had a perfect 'match' using an old 7mmBR die - a Redding type 'S' neck-busing die, with the neck-port opened, using a carbide boring-bar, to prevent sizing via the port wall.
Following many years of responding to requests, assisting re-sizing issues, I began recommending the specification of a LARGER web diameter (0.200" ahead of the bolt-face) dimension: 0.4720", or larger. Also, for many years now, I have been recommending increasing the neck Dia. to, at least, 0.331", which simply accommodates thicker, thus more durable neck-walls (for me, the .330" chamber/ 0.0098" wall thickness) has never been and issue.
Last fall, at the request of JGS, and following some discussions, I consented to having my name associated with a 30BR reamer, which JGS has labeled: 30ROBINETTV2. This is an excellent reamer. Contact JGS for specs.
The BIG issue is this: altering a SINGLE dimension makes a reamer, "SOMETHING ELSE" . . . not necessarily good/bad, better/worse, but rather something else . . . JGS will not change dimensions and leave my moniker attached. Keep 'em ON the X! RG
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CYanchycki
Club Coordinator
I did spec mine
With .331 neck and a .4725 at .200 ahead of the boltface.
Calvin
With .331 neck and a .4725 at .200 ahead of the boltface.
Calvin
Harrell just shipped me a die that would fit
sent 2 fired brass to Harrell and they got back to me yesterday saying they managed to fit a die according to my chamber. Only took a week after I sent my spent brass, fast service. Meanwhile, a competition buddy measured his fired brass after I mentioned my problem and his measures .330" and he claims his chamber neck chamber is also .330". I don't know but I'd be surprised his fired brass neck OD is the same as his chamber neck size. His chamber neck must be bigger than that. The more it goes, the more I believe there is a more than one so called 30BR chamber mesurement. Can't wait to try out this Harrell die.
danyboy
sent 2 fired brass to Harrell and they got back to me yesterday saying they managed to fit a die according to my chamber. Only took a week after I sent my spent brass, fast service. Meanwhile, a competition buddy measured his fired brass after I mentioned my problem and his measures .330" and he claims his chamber neck chamber is also .330". I don't know but I'd be surprised his fired brass neck OD is the same as his chamber neck size. His chamber neck must be bigger than that. The more it goes, the more I believe there is a more than one so called 30BR chamber mesurement. Can't wait to try out this Harrell die.
danyboy
There have been a few different 30BR reamers made over the years. But I believe there has only been 2 Official Robinette style reamers . His Original and now his revised JGS version but I could be wrong.
CYanchycki
Club Coordinator
As was said
And Randy will say it over and over. There is only 1 Robinette reamer until his latest version #2. Any other reamer is NOT a Robinette. Many people have come up with there own versions. They may have used some of his print and then made one or 2 changes. That is NOT a Robinette. I used Randy's original print, made the recommended changes reading some of his posts, talked with Al N, made 1 more change and sent it off to JGS for a reamer. It has my print number to it 30BRCY. No reference to any other reamer.
If and when people have issues with sizing, if they have not used a TRUE Robinette reamer that is a good possibility. Yes, there are many 30BR reamer designs. If the guy that is doing ones chambering says he has a good reamer, what does he mean by that? What is good to him? The guys that play around the competitive circles are the guys I would lean to first. Not saying all, but there are those who have a reputation. Die to chamber fit is so crucial. It took my dealings with 2 fellas to really understand that.
And Randy will say it over and over. There is only 1 Robinette reamer until his latest version #2. Any other reamer is NOT a Robinette. Many people have come up with there own versions. They may have used some of his print and then made one or 2 changes. That is NOT a Robinette. I used Randy's original print, made the recommended changes reading some of his posts, talked with Al N, made 1 more change and sent it off to JGS for a reamer. It has my print number to it 30BRCY. No reference to any other reamer.
If and when people have issues with sizing, if they have not used a TRUE Robinette reamer that is a good possibility. Yes, there are many 30BR reamer designs. If the guy that is doing ones chambering says he has a good reamer, what does he mean by that? What is good to him? The guys that play around the competitive circles are the guys I would lean to first. Not saying all, but there are those who have a reputation. Die to chamber fit is so crucial. It took my dealings with 2 fellas to really understand that.
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Harrell die question
Just got Harrell 30BR die that's supposed to fit my chamber. No details came with it. Bottom has 'B2' stamped, there is a .330" ID brass bushing attached to the outside of the decapping/mandrel pin ???.
Question: Are Harrell dies Bushing dies ?
Just got Harrell 30BR die that's supposed to fit my chamber. No details came with it. Bottom has 'B2' stamped, there is a .330" ID brass bushing attached to the outside of the decapping/mandrel pin ???.
Question: Are Harrell dies Bushing dies ?
Attachments
CYanchycki
Club Coordinator
Yes they are
Bushing dies. And the brass so called bushing is a gauge to use for measuring shoulder bump with your verniers. Slip it over the neck and measure before sizing and after. Be careful on the fired primer if you have some cratering. I measure slightly off center of the primer. Size down to the feel you want on bolt close and Mark that measurement down.
Bushing dies. And the brass so called bushing is a gauge to use for measuring shoulder bump with your verniers. Slip it over the neck and measure before sizing and after. Be careful on the fired primer if you have some cratering. I measure slightly off center of the primer. Size down to the feel you want on bolt close and Mark that measurement down.
CYanchycki
Club Coordinator
The 2 on the bottom
Refers to a Harrel #2 die. That means it will or should squeeze the case 2 thou.
Refers to a Harrel #2 die. That means it will or should squeeze the case 2 thou.
FBecigneul
Member
We build and sell the ring die that sizes the base only to .4375 and .4385 for PPC and to .4675 and .4685 for BR cases and they don’t bump the shoulder at all.