World Qualifiers?

World Body

Just to provide some clarity on this discussion.

NBRSA is the USA organisation recognised by the World Benchrest Shooting Federation and has the responsibility to send representatives to the World Championships. They have as part of our rules to ensure that all BR shooters who wish to qualify are able to attend their selection matches.

Anybody wishing to read the actual rules I suggest they go to the World Benchrest site - they are all their for everyone to see.

any further questions/queries you can always email me

graeme@manukastreet.org.nz

Graeme Smith
WBSF President
 
Thanks Graeme

The NBRSA is the official WBSF affiliate in the United States. So, logic would dictate that all qualifyers must be Registered NBRSA Events.
I scanned the rules for Rifles, and saw no mention of tuning devices. Does the WBSF recognize the NBRSA guidelines, (which are quite liberal), concering this. ......jackie
 
Graeme Smith said:
Just to provide some clarity on this discussion.

NBRSA is the USA organisation recognised by the World Benchrest Shooting Federation and has the responsibility to send representatives to the World Championships. They have as part of our rules to ensure that all BR shooters who wish to qualify are able to attend their selection matches.

Anybody wishing to read the actual rules I suggest they go to the World Benchrest site - they are all their for everyone to see.

any further questions/queries you can always email me

graeme@manukastreet.org.nz

Graeme Smith
WBSF President
Click to expand...


Graeme:

I believe your post qualifies for the title: "the horse's mouth." Thank you.

Mike
 
One thing

I promised more than once that I would shut up about this but I guess I lied.

The team process is such that only those with the time and the money can possibly qualify. A younger fellow with a job can win all four grand aggs at the nationals and not qualify. To that, the argument is that he probably wouldn't be able to go anyway or that he might have just been lucky....which has no basis. He can't go anyway because he can't qualify under the system. If he could qualify, he might cash in some vacation, get a second mortgage and swing the deal. And...if he can't make it, maybe the next guy on the list can.

It's just not set up for everybody to have an equal chance to play and I don't like it that way. Sure, everybody is equally welcome to attend all the qualifying matches but that falls way short of equal opportunity.

If the sole intent is to send a winning team then hand me a pencil and paper and I'll quickly jot down a list and save us the trouble....or you do it. The list will be about the same either way.
 
Jackie

My Region Director, Scott Hunter, has told me that the NBRSA is getting ready to address some of these issues. In fact, after what happenned at this years BOD's meeting, the BOD is getting ready to address a lot of things......jackie.

Jackie,

How many NBRSA members have no clue about the issues being discussed? As members of this organization are we not entitled to know? I wonder what the attendance at the world qualifying matches would be if all the members did know?

Andy
 
The Super Shoot is not registered this year and I do not in the future see it registered with any organization other than the WBSF. The last time we registered the Super Shoot with NBRSA we paid over 3000.00 to Eastern Region and NBRSA for shooters fees, we got put in the offical publication as a FILLER article in the back of the magazine and not even a complete top twenty listing. The biggest match in NBRSA is in the back of the magazine!!!!!!!!!! We've gotten better coverage in the magazine since we have NOT been registered. Figure that one out!!!

I really wish the Super Shoot was NOT included in the qualifing for the Worlds. My personal opinion on qualifing is to use the NBRSA Nationals only. IN todays qualifiying I could only qualify but not be able to travel to the Worlds due to the fact it costs too much to qualify and then travel to the Worlds. This is my opinion

As far as traveling twice to Phoenix, I seem to remember several Worlds ago you had to travel to Kelbly's twice to qualify. Who from the east wanted it to be equal back then!!!!!!!!!

I have spent all of my life in benchrest and I have seen several times the membership increase than decrease, I have heard that benchrest is going to be dead when all the oldtimers die. Well it has not died yet and I do not see it dieing in the future. We here at Kelbly's are still seeing a number of new shooters coming into benchrest. Not like we did several years ago, but we still are seeing new shooters. Ranges will come and go just as shooters will. Don't get me wrong I think we should always be looking for ways to increase ranges and membership.

At the NBRSA Nationals most of the directors were here, we had a membership meeting and NOBODY had any complaints, concerns, or suggestions to help our sport. Why since the inception of this benchrest board, NO ONE has spoke up at the annual meeting. This is your only opportunity to let our Directors know what you are thinking or feeling about the NBRSA and you let it go with nothing said. You need to step forward at these opportunities. I can remember membership meetings that lasted several hours because of the concerns for our sports.

I spent about ten years doing various jobs for NBRSA and unfortunetly business did not mix with the politics. As much as I love benchrest shooting, feeding my family became more important. Therefore I have chose to stay out of office in benchrest.

Just remember most jobs in this sport are volunteer and if you do not like something, by all means YOU volunteer your time and effort.

Jim
 
Here's an idea, pick 5 matchs where the attendance is expected to be somewhat similar, 2 in the east, 2 in the west, and 1 in the middle, give only the amount of points for each match that is equal to the number of points for the least well attended match of the 5, then allow shooters to accumulate points only on the best 3 out of the 5 matchs that they shot. In this way each match carries the same value, shooters from east or west or anywhere in between will not be discriminated against, and if a shooter either can't make it to one of the matches close to him or if he does bad and wants another chance he can make the long trip to the next match if he wants to.
 
5 qualifying matches???

If you have 5 qualifiers and pick the best 3 they only thing that will happen is
now, You have to addend all 5 with the hope of getting a better score of the best 3.
Dave B
 
LARRY FEUSSE said:
Here's an idea, pick 5 matchs where the attendance is expected to be somewhat similar, 2 in the east, 2 in the west, and 1 in the middle, .
Click to expand...

Larry, I said that exact same thing in post #8 above.

Dave B, if a shooter wants to make all 5 in hopes of upping their chances then that would be that individuals decison, but they would not have to take 5 weeks vacation, for those who still work, and still have a pretty good chance with just 3.

Many of us are not World Team material to start with. The WT members are pretty much the cream year after year.
 
Jerry, you had a good idea, I just said it a little different to see if people were listening. At least you and I are paying attention, which is about all I can afford to pay. Larry
 
Reply for Jackie

Thanks for comments - I actually see it very positive that folk want to talk about the World Championships.

You are correct - NBRSA are the recognised body - they have the responsibility to send a Team/s to the Champs. Actually how they go about the selection process is for them to decide, recognising what the rules say.

Tuners - our rules make no comment about tuners. Therefore they are legal.

Originally we followed NBRSA rules on all matters however it was NBRSA preference that they did not wish to be directly involved and although they are still very similiar over the last few years we have gone our own direction. We of course keep very close tabs on what is happening around the place.

What we have endeavoured to do is to develop a common standard that is now part of 26 countries and continuing to grow.

I will be at the SS in May - anyone welcome to corner me and discuss any matters of interest.

Graeme Smith
 
For qualifying, perhaps if you had 5 events as described above -2 Eastern, 2 Western, and one in the middle. Any competitor could shoot up to 3 matches for qualifying, but only best 2 would count. Naturally, a shooter would have to say beforehand which events would be for record. Any shooter could shoot all 5 qualifiers, but only best 2 would count. Gives a competitor a chance to blow a match and still be ok.

I think it could be very very good for the sport. Not only to attract new participants, but to put the fire in the belly of a bunch of very experienced good shooters who never thought they might get a chance to shoot at world level.

I know there are a lot of hard-working competitive shooters who might only lack the financial freedom involved. I think some would really get serious (like Wilbur says) if they could qualify in 2 matches that were relatively close to home. I'm sure the time and expense involved in world comp is hefty and perhaps some might not be able to swing it, but man - what a cool opportunity!
 
hayseed said:
For qualifying, perhaps if you had 5 events as described above -2 Eastern, 2 Western, and one in the middle. Any competitor could shoot up to 3 matches for qualifying, but only best 2 would count. Naturally, a shooter would have to say beforehand which events would be for record. Any shooter could shoot all 5 qualifiers, but only best 2 would count. Gives a competitor a chance to blow a match and still be ok.
Click to expand...

The problem with having a best 2 or even best 3 out of 5 or 6 events is that each event would need to have the same total amount of points available for a best 2 or 3 out of 5 or 6 events to work.

With the points being based on the number of shooters who place behind you, the team membership as done in the past is decided by how you place at the larger events. The Super Shoot is a must attend event if you want to have a chance of making the world team as you can make as many points there with a good finish as you can at two or maybe three smaller events. With a poor finish at the Cactus you can make as many points as you would make by winning the Hog Roast. The Nationals is another must attend event with twice the number of points generally available there as the smaller events.

In 2006, there were three events in the east with two of them being at the same range with Kelblys hosting the Super Shoot and the Eastern regionals. The other match was the Hog Roast at Fairchance. The other three events were the East/West at St. Louis which is actually closer to the east coast than it is to the west coast, the Nationals at Raton which is a little closer to the west coast than the east coast and the Cactus at Phoenix which would be a west coast match. The US is a large country. I'm located app. in the middle of the US and it's a 1250 mile trip to go to Kelbly's from here and it was about 1350 for the Hog Roast. It's about 850 to go to Phoenix.

This year it looks like the qualifiers will be two in Phoenix and one in Ohio. Points wise, that would make somewhere about the same number of points available at Kelbly's as what would be available at Phoenix depending upon the number of competitors at each event. IMO, the Super Shoot and the Nationals should always be qualifying matches just because they are both the premier events in the US. As to where the matches are held, it doesn't seem to make much difference. It seems like you are always shooting against the best shooters in the US whether you are shooting on the east coast or the west coast as most of them make them all.

Just shooting the qualifiers can be pretty expensive, but from what I hear that's a drop in the bucket to the expense of actually making the team and going to wherever the world championship is held especially if it's out of the US.
 
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Dusty

Expence, and the time envolved. Shooters ask me all of the time, "are you going to the Cactus". "Are you going to the Super Shoot" Well, the spring and summer are our busiest times of the year, there is no way I can take off and make a trip all the way out to Phoenix. The same for the Super Shoot. That trip takes a week out of your life, (at least), and persons like myself who have business responsibilities simply cannot just up and take off like that. It is not a matter of money, it is a matter of hours in the day.
Sure, I could dedicate what ever time I can take off make as many qualifyers as possible, and not even shoot any Region Matches. But, if everyone did that, the Regions would be in trouble for lack of attendence.
So shooters, like myself, simply cannot participate in the World Team concept. Heck, I doubt I could ever garnish enough points anyway, but there are shooters who do have the equipment and skill to make the World Team, but simply cannot dedicate the time and effort needed to earn a spot.
There really doesn't seem to be anything that wrong with the way the teams are chosen, The USA has been well represented in the past years.
We had a discussion at Rachels Glenn in October about this very subject. Some very well known shooters made the statement that while the USA has done well in the past, it is quite obvious that the rest of the World is catching up quickly. We need to send our best........jackie
 
Well as usual enven if this was a mebership meeting it is the same as always several debits about how to make things work, we never seem to get two people to agree let alone the whole membership. But if you don't change and try something different you will still have this conversation next year etc. Try something and if only part of it works then adjust what didn't go forward. The worst thing that could happen is you go backwards to what you thought was working and complain all over again.

AS to pick the quilifying match or matches for the world shoot it should be out Nationals. As of now we can just change the name from the Nationals to LEts ALL COME AND SHOOT MATCH, because that is all it is at present.

If you are set in having at least 5 qualifying then you should have at least the best 3 of 5 shoots for the world shoot, is it fair that all the best shooters from all over the world only get one week to shoot to see who is the best? We send 3 teams to the world and if your on team 3 you are not the best of the 12 members that went, but it seems to me that the 3rd team has won 1st place several times over our best team. So lets try our Nationals as the qualifying match to see how it works!
If we do that then I don't have to spend $6,000 to go to 3 shoots in the east and $600 to one in the west, and then I only have to take one vacation time to shoot the Nationals and save money and time. Then if I make the team I have over a year to save to go to the world shoot if I want, and mabe only shoot the local shoots on the off year and not travel to save the money for the world travel.

Tom Libby
 
Tom and Lou, you couldn't get any simpler than that. The top 12 in the two gun or three gun at the Nationals would be the qualifiers. I'd bet attendance at the Nationals would certainly increase plus it would give top shooters like Jackie who can't take off time from work to make the qualifiers, but can make the nationals the shot at representing the US if they choose. The shoots like the Cactus or Super Shoot would still be well attended as they are when they aren't qualifiers.
 
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