I agree, how about that if this person tries to qualify for another USA Team that he/she is not allowed to be a member even if they qualify. They have already shown that they are not a team member.
Just Saying
world benchrest TEAM competition
- Thread starter A Shifflett
- Start date
I agree, how about that if this person tries to qualify for another USA Team that he/she is not allowed to be a member even if they qualify. They have already shown that they are not a team member.
Just Saying
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
As an outsider (i.e., someone who wasn't there and isn't in the loop of conversations with those who were) reading this thread, I haven't been able to understand the issue(s) since it/they has/have been well disguised by not discussing specifics. Since this thread is being read mostly by outsiders, I wonder what we outsiders can glean from the underlying message. What is considered inappropriate behavior?
I'm going out on a limb here (not knowing what happened), but it seems that this tread may relate to someone quitting when the team is effectively finished. If that is/was the inappropriate behavior, I wonder how it hurt the team? Just asking.
CYanchycki
Club Coordinator
Hunter
I was not there either. But attempting to qualify for my country you get a sense of the dynamics amongst shooters that attempt to qualify and eventually do qualify.
You do not need to be there to know there can and will be tension amongst the teams.
I can toss one out there.
You want to qualify for your country maybe to get that feather in your hat that you shot for your country at the worlds. You go to all the major shoots the qualifying year to give yourself the BEST chance to make the team. You make the team. The other 11 selected as well as yourself are expecting you to give your all the following year leading up to the Worlds. Do you give your all or just coast that season?
Yah I have been known to be a SH@@ disturber but I asked a lot of people who were on various teams for there country if they shot much this year. Quite a few said NOT a lot. My opinion, if you want to represent your country as part of a team, give your all to represent it in the best manner possible.
That is why I have a few issues about team selections.
I feel the countries should NOT have to send in the 4 man team rosters until 1 month prior to the Worlds. Just because you had a GREAT qualifying year does not mean the following year things are working out for you. You are in a dreaded slump. If you qualified team 1 should you still be there? Maybe one shooter from team 3 is the hot shooter all year. Move him up. Maybe it is not fair to Team 3. Or just put numbers in the hat and draw at random so you have a mix.
Bottom line, there were some VERY UNFORTUNATE things that happened this year and that is unfortunate. Word gets spread around. you just need to pay attention to the match reports to figure it out. We are ALL GROWN men who love this game. We need to act like it.
What I do know, I want to thank the Canadians who represented Canada. They gave it a good effort.
And to my neighbors to the south, thank you for keeping it in North America.
Many may feel this is not the place to try and voice concerns on this but I will guarantee you more people see this than you will ever talk to at your shoots all year.
Again JMO.
Calvin
I was not there either. But attempting to qualify for my country you get a sense of the dynamics amongst shooters that attempt to qualify and eventually do qualify.
You do not need to be there to know there can and will be tension amongst the teams.
I can toss one out there.
You want to qualify for your country maybe to get that feather in your hat that you shot for your country at the worlds. You go to all the major shoots the qualifying year to give yourself the BEST chance to make the team. You make the team. The other 11 selected as well as yourself are expecting you to give your all the following year leading up to the Worlds. Do you give your all or just coast that season?
Yah I have been known to be a SH@@ disturber but I asked a lot of people who were on various teams for there country if they shot much this year. Quite a few said NOT a lot. My opinion, if you want to represent your country as part of a team, give your all to represent it in the best manner possible.
That is why I have a few issues about team selections.
I feel the countries should NOT have to send in the 4 man team rosters until 1 month prior to the Worlds. Just because you had a GREAT qualifying year does not mean the following year things are working out for you. You are in a dreaded slump. If you qualified team 1 should you still be there? Maybe one shooter from team 3 is the hot shooter all year. Move him up. Maybe it is not fair to Team 3. Or just put numbers in the hat and draw at random so you have a mix.
Bottom line, there were some VERY UNFORTUNATE things that happened this year and that is unfortunate. Word gets spread around. you just need to pay attention to the match reports to figure it out. We are ALL GROWN men who love this game. We need to act like it.
What I do know, I want to thank the Canadians who represented Canada. They gave it a good effort.
And to my neighbors to the south, thank you for keeping it in North America.
Many may feel this is not the place to try and voice concerns on this but I will guarantee you more people see this than you will ever talk to at your shoots all year.
Again JMO.
Calvin
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jackie schmidt
New member
Well, the damage to the team was already done. Once the mistake as devastating to a agg as a cross fire or a DQ occurs, the Team is out of the Team Competition. It's the nature of the game.
But getting back to my original premis that Benchrest is a singular endevour. I really feel that the entire Team Competition is an artificial creation that does not lend its self to this particular Shooting Discipline in the least.
That is just the way Benchrest is.
A Shifflett
New member
Hunter
I'm going out on a limb here (not knowing what happened), but it seems that this tread may relate to someone quitting when the team is effectively finished. If that is/was the inappropriate behavior, I wonder how it hurt the team? Just asking.
You are correct in saying the team was effectively finished. But in the spirit of competition, you don't just up and quit. There are many shooters in this country, myself included, who would have finished, regardless of the status of the team, or the status of "our" standing in the individual two gun. IMO that was not only a black eye to that shooter, but to all the shooters on all USA teams. And I'm pretty sure, had that shooter been doing better in the individual 2 gun, his decision to simply quit would have been much different.
AS
I'm going out on a limb here (not knowing what happened), but it seems that this tread may relate to someone quitting when the team is effectively finished. If that is/was the inappropriate behavior, I wonder how it hurt the team? Just asking.
You are correct in saying the team was effectively finished. But in the spirit of competition, you don't just up and quit. There are many shooters in this country, myself included, who would have finished, regardless of the status of the team, or the status of "our" standing in the individual two gun. IMO that was not only a black eye to that shooter, but to all the shooters on all USA teams. And I'm pretty sure, had that shooter been doing better in the individual 2 gun, his decision to simply quit would have been much different.
AS
Wayne Campbell
Member
Now it's my turn… (From the inside)
I have read and monitored this thread through out the week when my internet was operational which was not often and not for long..
What happened to two (2) of our teams in St. Louis was disastrous without saying. One was avoidable by team work and the other not so much. Had Chris had a spotter from his team as agreed to in our team meetings this could not and would not have happened. We agreed that in the four (4) relay, three (3) bench format the we had to monitor and be responsible for our own. In Australia we had six (6) relays on two (2) benches so the coverage was a bit different with plenty of time to load and be ready in between. In Australia team members were there and it still happened. In any case we got it wrong both times. A cross fire in my opinion is the most avoidable mistake there is under a team format yet in two (2) consecutive World Championships we have lost teams who were in very competitive positions at the time. As I stated prior this was discussed in team meetings before and during the event. If we had all done our jobs this could not have happened.
In the other situation it was strictly a mistake. I have been in competitive situations in National and International events where you are "in the zone" so to speak. You hear and see nothing but the flags and what is going on out in front of you. I watched Tony Boyer, the best shooter in Benchrest history get penalized at the Super Shoot of all places for four (4) shots because he was totally engrossed with conditions and did not hear the time or was not cognizant of it. He told me he heard nothing until Jim announced "cease fire". I do understand how this happens and actually applaud Bobs ability to focus and what he was trying to accomplish. What makes us good at this can also be our worst enemy. There is a fine line in getting the best from ones self without putting the team at risk.!!!! He is one of the top shooters in our sport. My hope and belief is that he will learn from it, put it behind him and come back strong in the next event.
My final statement here is regarding individual vs team competition. Benchrest is a small community in the world with few accolades. I personally and from a Team Manager stand point do not see why both can not exist in the WBC. Yes it is a team event. No argument there. If you compete there and are not doing everything possible to shoot as well as you are capable then you are not a good team member / player anyway. The fine line is to get the most from yourself and not do anything that will put the team at risk. Our teams for the last two (2) WBC's have been made up of some pretty strong type-A personalities. What makes us good at this also can make us a pain in the ass.. I heard and witnessed more individualistic wants and requests at this one than I have in past events. Gripes and bitches about almost everything in one form or the other. I do not believe for one second that the US teams can not work together to accomplish our medal aspirations. I have had the honor and pleasure of competing for the United States in all but one (1) WBC held since 2001 and have witnessed us at our best and worst. Many times I have seen us bail each other out in times of distress and leave there with what we went for. WBC's are some of my fondest and most devastating Benchrest memories. I made the devastating mistake in Australia by not putting powder in one case that cost me and my teammates Thompson III, Ratigan and Hachegian a very real possibility to medal there as well. My mistake caused them to waste a year of qualifying time, effort and money to get there. I turned to each of them while on the podium for the final medal for which we would be eligible. I shook their hand and apologized to them for taking them out by friendly fire. They were gracious although I know they were disappointed beyond belief.
WBC's are a different deal than they were several years ago. For a while other countries were a little behind in equipment and technique. That is not the case now. They have what we have and they are adapting well. They work at it and it shows in their performance. There is no doubt Australia has set the bar for how to compete as a team. They fought and argued among themselves prior to the WBC as bad as anyone. In both practice and when the range officer said "Ready on the right" they were one.. When they practiced they all went to the line as one. They all shot, observed their team mates and they all returned. Watching every step along the way. During the match the competitor following was at the line on a spotting scope with gun in hand in case there was a problems well as watching conditions to assist at completion on conditions etc.
The teams from the USA will adapt to this technique I assure you. I take great responsibility for our teams performances. For future events participation contracts stating expectations will be signed and agreed to before team deposits will be accepted. Should an individual sign the contract and fail to uphold his or her end of the deal they will not be eligible for future participation. This has been discussed and agreed upon by the NBRSA BOD. For those who don't know the NBRSA is the recognized sanctioning body in the USA for the World Benchrest Federation. This can and will happen. I feel we do have the finest shooters in the world. These finest will still have to adjust their methods to more accommodate the team aspect. If they choose not to it is next man up. I told our guys it was an honor to be there and represent the USA with them. WE will have members who can play well together. We are severely under achieving at the moment.
Anyone who reads this who has not been there and sit down among the finest shooters in the world with the weight of three (3) team mates on your shoulder I assure you that you have not experienced anything like it.. I have told many first timers that this will be a different pressure than you have ever experienced. I have yet had one to tell me I was wrong. There are those that will have to change their personal approaches and actions. Our qualifying system is as fair as it can be given the area of our country. We welcome and want the best twelve (12) shooters in the country to represent us. We will accomplish this and be successful!!!
Your comments are welcome!!! After all this is your Team USA which you give your moral and financial support. You have a voice!!!
Her we go..
Wayne Campbell
NBRSA International representative
I have read and monitored this thread through out the week when my internet was operational which was not often and not for long..
What happened to two (2) of our teams in St. Louis was disastrous without saying. One was avoidable by team work and the other not so much. Had Chris had a spotter from his team as agreed to in our team meetings this could not and would not have happened. We agreed that in the four (4) relay, three (3) bench format the we had to monitor and be responsible for our own. In Australia we had six (6) relays on two (2) benches so the coverage was a bit different with plenty of time to load and be ready in between. In Australia team members were there and it still happened. In any case we got it wrong both times. A cross fire in my opinion is the most avoidable mistake there is under a team format yet in two (2) consecutive World Championships we have lost teams who were in very competitive positions at the time. As I stated prior this was discussed in team meetings before and during the event. If we had all done our jobs this could not have happened.
In the other situation it was strictly a mistake. I have been in competitive situations in National and International events where you are "in the zone" so to speak. You hear and see nothing but the flags and what is going on out in front of you. I watched Tony Boyer, the best shooter in Benchrest history get penalized at the Super Shoot of all places for four (4) shots because he was totally engrossed with conditions and did not hear the time or was not cognizant of it. He told me he heard nothing until Jim announced "cease fire". I do understand how this happens and actually applaud Bobs ability to focus and what he was trying to accomplish. What makes us good at this can also be our worst enemy. There is a fine line in getting the best from ones self without putting the team at risk.!!!! He is one of the top shooters in our sport. My hope and belief is that he will learn from it, put it behind him and come back strong in the next event.
My final statement here is regarding individual vs team competition. Benchrest is a small community in the world with few accolades. I personally and from a Team Manager stand point do not see why both can not exist in the WBC. Yes it is a team event. No argument there. If you compete there and are not doing everything possible to shoot as well as you are capable then you are not a good team member / player anyway. The fine line is to get the most from yourself and not do anything that will put the team at risk. Our teams for the last two (2) WBC's have been made up of some pretty strong type-A personalities. What makes us good at this also can make us a pain in the ass.. I heard and witnessed more individualistic wants and requests at this one than I have in past events. Gripes and bitches about almost everything in one form or the other. I do not believe for one second that the US teams can not work together to accomplish our medal aspirations. I have had the honor and pleasure of competing for the United States in all but one (1) WBC held since 2001 and have witnessed us at our best and worst. Many times I have seen us bail each other out in times of distress and leave there with what we went for. WBC's are some of my fondest and most devastating Benchrest memories. I made the devastating mistake in Australia by not putting powder in one case that cost me and my teammates Thompson III, Ratigan and Hachegian a very real possibility to medal there as well. My mistake caused them to waste a year of qualifying time, effort and money to get there. I turned to each of them while on the podium for the final medal for which we would be eligible. I shook their hand and apologized to them for taking them out by friendly fire. They were gracious although I know they were disappointed beyond belief.
WBC's are a different deal than they were several years ago. For a while other countries were a little behind in equipment and technique. That is not the case now. They have what we have and they are adapting well. They work at it and it shows in their performance. There is no doubt Australia has set the bar for how to compete as a team. They fought and argued among themselves prior to the WBC as bad as anyone. In both practice and when the range officer said "Ready on the right" they were one.. When they practiced they all went to the line as one. They all shot, observed their team mates and they all returned. Watching every step along the way. During the match the competitor following was at the line on a spotting scope with gun in hand in case there was a problems well as watching conditions to assist at completion on conditions etc.
The teams from the USA will adapt to this technique I assure you. I take great responsibility for our teams performances. For future events participation contracts stating expectations will be signed and agreed to before team deposits will be accepted. Should an individual sign the contract and fail to uphold his or her end of the deal they will not be eligible for future participation. This has been discussed and agreed upon by the NBRSA BOD. For those who don't know the NBRSA is the recognized sanctioning body in the USA for the World Benchrest Federation. This can and will happen. I feel we do have the finest shooters in the world. These finest will still have to adjust their methods to more accommodate the team aspect. If they choose not to it is next man up. I told our guys it was an honor to be there and represent the USA with them. WE will have members who can play well together. We are severely under achieving at the moment.
Anyone who reads this who has not been there and sit down among the finest shooters in the world with the weight of three (3) team mates on your shoulder I assure you that you have not experienced anything like it.. I have told many first timers that this will be a different pressure than you have ever experienced. I have yet had one to tell me I was wrong. There are those that will have to change their personal approaches and actions. Our qualifying system is as fair as it can be given the area of our country. We welcome and want the best twelve (12) shooters in the country to represent us. We will accomplish this and be successful!!!
Your comments are welcome!!! After all this is your Team USA which you give your moral and financial support. You have a voice!!!
Her we go..
Wayne Campbell
NBRSA International representative
jackie schmidt
New member
First Wayne, congratulations on your Victory and your excellent effort in running the USA contingent.
One question as to how far the Team concept can go. The NBRSA Rules specifically do not allow coaching. If a fellow team mate was watching through a spotting scope at his team mate, and noticed, after the command of "commence fire" that his team mate put a sighter on the wrong target, (but had not gone to the record), and yelled out to him, would that be construed as "coaching"?
One question as to how far the Team concept can go. The NBRSA Rules specifically do not allow coaching. If a fellow team mate was watching through a spotting scope at his team mate, and noticed, after the command of "commence fire" that his team mate put a sighter on the wrong target, (but had not gone to the record), and yelled out to him, would that be construed as "coaching"?
Wayne, well put and congratulations again.
My observation is that not ALL countries work as a team, but Australia seem to be working as a team more successfully than other countries.
Some of the things I observed showed that some countries are picking up on this, ie sharing information about conditions, standing behind ready with a backup rifle, watching behind with a spotting scope and telling the competitor where they got caught....and learning from it........some countries are doing some of these things while other countries are doing all of these things and more.
To compete as a TEAM you have to function as a TEAM, if you don't it would only be good luck or bad luck from the opposition that gets you on the podium.
Functioning as a team may mean doing things slightly differently from when you compete as an individual, and also you need someone coordinating the team otherwise details get missed and if there is no one to bring the team together you only end up with a bunch of individuals competing who's scores are added together.
Yes WBC is primarily a TEAM event and while some countries do field TEAMS, other countries can/do not, therefore if you took out the individual prizes you discourage competitors from those countries with individuals. Not all countries have 100+ BR competitors.
No matter what, if something happens that affects the TEAM then TEAM members still need to carry on as part of the TEAM......look at USA team 1 it still finished 9th in the TEAM 2gun, WELL DONE.....this is where personal integrity comes in.
I have often wondered about some shooters is there some unknown competition among yourselves to shoot the smallest group in the last 15 seconds of a relay??
The way I see it this has lead to teams and individuals eliminating themselves from the podium on more than one occasion, and there is only so much the other "TEAM" members can do to prevent that.
Ian
My observation is that not ALL countries work as a team, but Australia seem to be working as a team more successfully than other countries.
Some of the things I observed showed that some countries are picking up on this, ie sharing information about conditions, standing behind ready with a backup rifle, watching behind with a spotting scope and telling the competitor where they got caught....and learning from it........some countries are doing some of these things while other countries are doing all of these things and more.
To compete as a TEAM you have to function as a TEAM, if you don't it would only be good luck or bad luck from the opposition that gets you on the podium.
Functioning as a team may mean doing things slightly differently from when you compete as an individual, and also you need someone coordinating the team otherwise details get missed and if there is no one to bring the team together you only end up with a bunch of individuals competing who's scores are added together.
Yes WBC is primarily a TEAM event and while some countries do field TEAMS, other countries can/do not, therefore if you took out the individual prizes you discourage competitors from those countries with individuals. Not all countries have 100+ BR competitors.
No matter what, if something happens that affects the TEAM then TEAM members still need to carry on as part of the TEAM......look at USA team 1 it still finished 9th in the TEAM 2gun, WELL DONE.....this is where personal integrity comes in.
I have often wondered about some shooters is there some unknown competition among yourselves to shoot the smallest group in the last 15 seconds of a relay??
The way I see it this has lead to teams and individuals eliminating themselves from the podium on more than one occasion, and there is only so much the other "TEAM" members can do to prevent that.
Ian
Very well stated Wayne.
Joe Hynes
Oh and congrats on your shooting. You have earned it buddy.
And as for a crossfire, it was almost impossible to see your competitor number at 200yds at times during the nationals. The bungee strap they use to secure the target was covering the sticker with your number on it. I was right next to the range officer and asked him if he could see the target number and he said no also. This was one agenda item addressed this year and some people were pissing and moaning about it. Come shoot at Holton in some REAL bad mirage and see for yourself.
Joe Hynes
Oh and congrats on your shooting. You have earned it buddy.
And as for a crossfire, it was almost impossible to see your competitor number at 200yds at times during the nationals. The bungee strap they use to secure the target was covering the sticker with your number on it. I was right next to the range officer and asked him if he could see the target number and he said no also. This was one agenda item addressed this year and some people were pissing and moaning about it. Come shoot at Holton in some REAL bad mirage and see for yourself.
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Lawrence W.
Member
Hello Calvin.
1 month prior does not give you time to book your flight, time off of work, vacation time etc. Qualifying the year before and then making arrangements and staying on top of your game the year of, seems to work just fine.
World Benchrest TEAM competition...
First,I want to congratulate all the participants and winners on your outstanding achievements.
However,I noticed that 3 countries had 3 4man teams,3 countries had 2 4man teams,and 8 countries each had 1 4man team. Correct me if I'm wrong,but,it looks like that ONLY the countries with
3 4man teams have the POSSIBILTY of taking the gold,silver,and bronze medals. Why is it this way? Eight of the 14 countries can only provide 1 4man team and 3 of the 14 can only provide 2 4man teams....this doesn't look like equal opportunity to me. Just an observation.....thank you.
First,I want to congratulate all the participants and winners on your outstanding achievements.
However,I noticed that 3 countries had 3 4man teams,3 countries had 2 4man teams,and 8 countries each had 1 4man team. Correct me if I'm wrong,but,it looks like that ONLY the countries with
3 4man teams have the POSSIBILTY of taking the gold,silver,and bronze medals. Why is it this way? Eight of the 14 countries can only provide 1 4man team and 3 of the 14 can only provide 2 4man teams....this doesn't look like equal opportunity to me. Just an observation.....thank you.
CYanchycki
Club Coordinator
Lawrence
What I mean by my comment that you quoted is:
You still set the 12 members of the team the year before and submit those names.
But
What team they will be on is not set till a month before. This way the year of the Worlds you get to see how the individual has done thru the year and set your final team members according to that.
Those people would still have everything in place to make the required trip. Just where they fit in is not set till a month before.
I do agree with Wayne that I feel it can work as an individual and as a team game. It is up to how you as a select member of the team are able to look at it. If you cannot check your ego at the door and be a TRUE part of the team I feel qualifying for the team is not for you.
I hate to say it but I will. There were issues with the Canadian team as well. So like many have mentioned it was not just the US with issues. Many will learn from this. We must learn from this.
What I mean by my comment that you quoted is:
You still set the 12 members of the team the year before and submit those names.
But
What team they will be on is not set till a month before. This way the year of the Worlds you get to see how the individual has done thru the year and set your final team members according to that.
Those people would still have everything in place to make the required trip. Just where they fit in is not set till a month before.
I do agree with Wayne that I feel it can work as an individual and as a team game. It is up to how you as a select member of the team are able to look at it. If you cannot check your ego at the door and be a TRUE part of the team I feel qualifying for the team is not for you.
I hate to say it but I will. There were issues with the Canadian team as well. So like many have mentioned it was not just the US with issues. Many will learn from this. We must learn from this.
Wayne Campbell
Member
It works like this..
Good question GP. Under WBSF rules each member country may send up to (3) 4-man teams to a World Championship.
Good question GP. Under WBSF rules each member country may send up to (3) 4-man teams to a World Championship.
r44astro
New member
I did not make the team, but the team made me feel like a member. I stayed and took pictures. What I saw was a team USA. The two major mistakes were just that, mistakes. When a team member was cross firing one team member and many others were screaming, they could not get him stopped but tried. When an other team member fired a late shot there was nothing anyone could do, he started with 15 seconds left, I was present for that late fire but not the cross but heard about the screaming right afterwards. I know a team member loaned another team member a gun, brass and bullets to help the team, they won the gold two gun. I only know what I witnessed, but I saw team USA!
Bill Greene
Bill Greene
jackie schmidt
New member
The NBRSA is an organization run by rules. Everybody should know the rules. Tournament Officials in particular.
But obviously some rules count more than others.
Go to the rule book, section D, item 2 under Tournament Rules.
If what you say happennd, then that rule might as well be taken out of the book, because if it is that that easilly ignored, then it is useless.
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CYanchycki
Club Coordinator
Jackie
Could you please elaborate as to what you are getting at. I am lost with you referring to the above rule in the book?????
This was at the WBSF World Shoot. The NBRSA rule book has nothing to do with this shoot. The have there own rule book which is followed.
Could you please elaborate as to what you are getting at. I am lost with you referring to the above rule in the book?????
This was at the WBSF World Shoot. The NBRSA rule book has nothing to do with this shoot. The have there own rule book which is followed.
r44astro
New member
I am confused.
D. TOURNAMENT RULES.
(1.)
TOURNAMENTS
shall be of 2 general classes:
Registered, and Unregistered. Only Registered Tournaments
shall be recognized for record purposes. All tournaments shall
consist of Any Sight matches
with no coaching permitted.
(2.)
REGISTERED TOURNAMENTS
may be held only by
Clubs affiliated with NBRSA, which are in good standing and
which have the facilities and equipment required to conduct a
shoot under the procedures required by the Association.
Registered Tournaments may be held only on dates approved
by the Director of the Region having jurisdiction of the Club.
What am I missing?
Bill Greene
regardless: don't shoot the messenger
i'm not sure what Jackie is getting at here either, but here is what he has referenced above. he may have meant item 1.
D. TOURNAMENT RULES.
(1.) TOURNAMENTS shall be of 2 general classes:
Registered, and Unregistered. Only Registered Tournaments shall be recognized for record purposes. All tournaments shall consist of Any Sight matches with no coaching permitted.
(2.) REGISTERED TOURNAMENTS may be held only by Clubs affiliated with NBRSA, which are in good standing and
which have the facilities and equipment required to conduct a shoot under the procedures required by the Association. Registered Tournaments may be held only on dates approved by the Director of the Region having jurisdiction of the Club.
sorry Bill, i was just a little late.
i don't think anyone has an issue with the rules that were enforced at the match. i think the issue that was at the core of the original post was the guy that chose not to shoot his final target after hearing another guy on his team shot late.
i don't think anyone has an issue with the rules that were enforced at the match. i think the issue that was at the core of the original post was the guy that chose not to shoot his final target after hearing another guy on his team shot late.