Wind, wind and more wind

Lots of good info posted, brings back memories when first started out. Al, won't disagree with you since day one you stated how important the tails are to watch and feel that's a vital area that's easily missed or lack of attention paid during practice and a match. There's a lot of info in those tails.

Regards,
Joe
 
Wilbur said:
Something in those posts that were removed caused me to experience an epiphany of sorts. Every time a "wind" discussion arises there are those that directly address the wind and those that include additional contributors to errant shots. I mulled that over a bit and thought about that looooong post I typed yesterday concerning the value of a great rifle vs the frustration of a mediocre rifle. To my chagrin. the power blinked off just long enough to kill it dead (!@$%^&*) before I had a chance to post. Probably a good thing.

Al Hadfield said more than he thought he was saying (maybe not) when he said "my dot most always is touching the 10 ring". The deal is, if you don't have a rifle that shoots like Al's rifle then you can hardly discuss wind effects with Al. That may not make any sense at all and if it doesn't I'll leave this for thought...

The laws of physics don't apply to bullets from different rifles - those laws that we know to apply.
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Just curious WIlbur, How many shooters actually ever get their hands on a rifle that REALLY SHOOTS, as you have suggested?
 
Pete Wass said:
Just curious WIlbur, How many shooters actually ever get their hands on a rifle that REALLY SHOOTS, as you have suggested?
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Reminds me of a story, Pete. When I first started shooting 1,000 yards, (and Benchrest Central was a list, not an internet forum), Dave Tooley remarked that a regular barrel shot 14 inches, a hummer 4 inches (this is 1,000 yards). I piped up that mine shot 8 inches, did that mean I had a hummer but wasn't good enough? Dave replied that sounded about right.
 
Not many Pete, not many at all. On the bright side, it looks like the percentage is improving.
 
Les

7 flags....!!!!!! How do you cope? I have 5 but only use 4 and when the winds on the move I struggle to keep track of that few. Have you always used 7?
 
Hambone said:
Al

Its always good for the students to periodically sit at the feet of the masters.
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Ha, Hambone I suspected you were a BS'er, now I know! ;) Believe me, I say this jokingly and in the best of good humor. :D

Going back aways in this thread Wilbur seemed to be saying I was shooting a special gun. Perhaps a "hummer"? Out of our small group of around 10 shooters that regularly compete at Easthamton and Holbrook I firmly believe that there are about half of them that could, and do, regularly clean my clock. Coincidentally, a high percentage of these shooters are shooting guns from the same gunsmith. What conclusions should we draw from that?

Now, lets get back on subject. Do any of you use those, what I call "Bobbin Robbin" wind flags. Those wind flags that go up and down to show up- drafts and down-drafts? Talk about information overload, they totally short circuit my ol' brain.

Al
 
Charles E said:
Reminds me of a story, Pete. When I first started shooting 1,000 yards, (and Benchrest Central was a list, not an internet forum), Dave Tooley remarked that a regular barrel shot 14 inches, a hummer 4 inches (this is 1,000 yards). I piped up that mine shot 8 inches, did that mean I had a hummer but wasn't good enough? Dave replied that sounded about right.
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I have had a couple of CF rifles that were well above average and had two of them at the same time! Thinking all rifles were like the ones I had, I sold the pair of them because I wanted to change the port configuration of my rifles. You may guess that I haven't yet had another that equals the two I sold. I think it's mostly about barrels though. Sure, a great platform is essential but there are a lot more great platforms than barrels, IMHO.
 
Hambone said:
Les

7 flags....!!!!!! How do you cope? I have 5 but only use 4 and when the winds on the move I struggle to keep track of that few. Have you always used 7?
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I've used as many as 8 and as few as 4 and in so many different layout configurations until I have one that I'm comfortable with. There's so many varibles regarding working that many flags, and yes there's really a limit as to what one can absorb and calulate when to pull the trigger. I'll get home from a match that had very challenging wind conditions and the wife will ask "how did it go" and I'll reply "I'm all worn out".

Until I got into this game I never realized how much the wind can be changing direction all within seconds doing complete 180's etc.....

One more thing to add to the equation of reading wind, for living in Texas it's warm, if not right down hot for a lot of our matches. Unless it's just plain to cold I shoot in shorts and short sleeve shirt so I can feel the wind around my body. As I stated earlier I'll have two flags perpendicular to the front of the bench approx a few feet out. I'm reading the wind on them and my body thus creating a triangle and the rifle is sitting in the middle of it. I want to feel that wind on me and those two flags to be constant and then deal with the one's down range.

I know I'm probably overly anal about it but that's what I do.

Les
 
Al Hadfield said:
Ha, Hambone I suspected you were a BS'er, now I know! ;) Believe me, I say this jokingly and in the best of good humor. :D

Going back aways in this thread Wilbur seemed to be saying I was shooting a special gun. Perhaps a "hummer"? Out of our small group of around 10 shooters that regularly compete at Easthamton and Holbrook I firmly believe that there are about half of them that could, and do, regularly clean my clock. Coincidentally, a high percentage of these shooters are shooting guns from the same gunsmith. What conclusions should we draw from that?

Now, lets get back on subject. Do any of you use those, what I call "Bobbin Robbin" wind flags. Those wind flags that go up and down to show up- drafts and down-drafts? Talk about information overload, they totally short circuit my ol' brain.

Al
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Al

No offence taken. :cool:
 
Sighters go hand in hand with flags and reading the wind. A couple of years ago I was at the bench next to a shooter that set a Ga. State record, at the windy Macon County range. To say he shot a lot of sighters would be like calling the ocean a pond. Must have shot a brick that day or it felt like it to me. That same day Bob Collins looked like a frog jumping from the bench to his truck changing ammo lots. I have noticed on windy days, the targets posted on the wailing wall show the sighter targets are pounded out by the best shooters. And the also ran didn't waste good ammo on targets that didn't count for score.
When at a large match it is worth while watching the field of 40 to 80 wind flags to get a handle on the over all footprint of the wind as it shifts over the range.
As Bob Collins says "if you practice without your wind flags you are just wasting ammo".

Al Kunard
 
Al - I do believe you have a great rifle but that's not exactly what I was sayin'.

What I meant to get across was that the different rifles are treated differently by the wind - especially the lighter winds.

Wilbur
 
admin said:
Al - I do believe you have a great rifle but that's not exactly what I was sayin'.

What I meant to get across was that the different rifles are treated differently by the wind - especially the lighter winds.

Wilbur
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Ahh, I get it now Wilbur. I agree. Perhaps a combination of a good gun and finding the right ammo to feed it? I am out of the lot of ammo I have been using for the past few years so the Great Ammo Hunt begins again.

There have been some good posts on this thread, I think we have all learned something about shooting in the wind.

Al
 
Harry Deneen uses 7 conventional flags and can somehow deal with it. Harry is the one pushin' seven hundred 50/50 HOF points......285 more than than anybody.

What I can't get used to are those "digital" indicators. I get all balled up trying to wait for the right number and forget to watch much else. Hey wait!!!...I'm tryin' to let on like I'm ever watching much else. Sorry, I was thinking about what I used to do back when I thought I could win.
 
For me, where I places flags is more important than the number. There is the issue of how many can one read. I can read 4 pretty well most of the time and some days 5 but beyond that, there is too much info for me to be able to process. I cut back from 7 to 6 @ 300 yds (cf ) and that seemed to help me. I use two Windprobes, tm. most of the time and find that I rely a lot on what they tell me.
 
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I set 5 flags at 5, 15, 25, 35, and 45 yards.
I also use a green laser to set them. Same way every time.
That way regardless of what bench or what range,
my flags always look the same to me from the bench.

But, most matches, depending on where I'm sitting at the line, i'll use anywhere from 15-30 flags.
I like to look for the upwind and downwind competitor flags that fit my eye.
It might be this guys downrange flags, or that guys uprange flags, but i figure they're there,
I'll use them if I can.
I particularly look for tails and paddle colors that match mine.
 
Hi Jeff,

"I also use a green laser to set them. Same way every time."

Tell me more about that laser please. Never have seen one used to set flags, sounds interesting.

Al
 
The lasers are readily available from several internet sites.
They're sold as pointers and are advertised as being under 5mw
If you go to amazon.com and search for 5mw green laser, there are several options.

laserstand1.jpg


I made this simple stand to hold the laser and allow me a method to align it.
The clips also let me rotate the laser to depress the button and hold it in the on position
while I'm downrange.

laserstand2.jpg


I set the laser on the right front of the bench and aim it to the lower left edge of my backer.
This gives me a good diagonal reference that I can use for alignment and height.
I'm sure you've seen folks pull a string. Same thing, just easier.
Then I just use my body to give the laser a point to hit at each flag distance.

Here's a shot of the dot it makes. This is probably around 75 yards out.

laserdot.jpg
 
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