Wind Flags 2015

S

SWASHBUCKLER1

New member
Sorry guys I know this subject has been asked and visited many times, but I thought I'd ask it again since there has been some new designs and some drop out of the Wind Flag Market since I was looking for a set or two.?

What is your favorite flags for short range bench rest, and why.

I'm in the market and may even buy several sets, so I'd like to hear the ins and outs on the best flags out there before we buy.

Thanks in advance
 
I learned from Ed Watson that the type of flag you used didn't matter as long as you understood what they were telling you. Ed used a really small flag with a thick yarn tail and beat us badly for years and years. In Ed's case, I don't believe it was the flags that beat us but rather the rifle he shot. If you had a good rifle, you could beat Ed but to keep beating him you had to keep a good rifle. That said, don't buy a bunch of different flags but rather some flags that will last...and learn what they're telling you.

Ed used these flags...except smaller:

http://www.benchrest.com/flags/
 
Does size Matter

Depending on your eyesight.
I own a few sets. I like the Grahams for their size, Paint and the arrows.Pink and Black tails show up well on most ranges,but have a variety of colors available.
When you attend a large match you can look at what is out on the range and make a choice from there.
 
Mike Ezell makes as good a wind flag as I have ever used. Of course, there are many good designs available today. James
 

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I make my own and prefer double vane designs .

My current set are 2D so move in 2 axes and vanes are depron so super light and super responsive.

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ert 002.jpg
 
I shoot over lots of different flags and sell a simple flag design myself. Truth is that most shooters put way too much importance on the flag type, design, and technology. My own opinion is that the worst flags out there are also the most expensive and over-designed ones -- heavy with ball bearings and too balanced so they add confusing twitches instead of filtering the wind noise. The quest for hyper-sensitive flags is a fool's errand -- a Pitts aerobatic biplane is super-sensitive, but a wreck in the hands of most pilots whereas anybody can learn to fly the stable, boring ubiquitous Cessna. Same is true of wind flags.


Regionally you see a lot more Smiley-style flags with daisy wheels in the eastern US, while the western half of the country tends to avoid daisy wheels -- thought being they are less helpful in the typically higher winds of the western ranges. We share flags a lot, so pick something popular in your region. The big shoots probably run 70-80% Smiley flags, so learn to shoot over them, even if you don't buy them.

I copied a design from Mike Ratigan, really a slight mod from the Watson flag listed above -- a simple Corroplast flag with a 1/8" pin. You can make a set of 6 tops for $30 and probably still buy lunch. I've gotten fancy in recent years and used vinyl for color, but I started with a razor knife, blank yardsale sign material, fluorescent paint, and surveyors tape from the hardware store. It was cheap and I've never found anything that was definitively better.
 
Wilbur hit the nail on the head when he wrote "That said, don't buy a bunch of different flags but rather some flags that will last...and learn what they're telling you."

CubCouper could you please clarify something you wrote, "My own opinion is that the worst flags out there are also the most expensive and over-designed ones -- heavy with ball bearings and too balanced so they add confusing twitches instead of filtering the wind noise"

Which heavy flags that use ball bearings are you referring to and where are these ball bearings used in the flag construction?
What is the weight difference between the flags with the ball bearings and the ones that use a daisy wheel, and what is the difference in balance split between front and rear of each type?

With regards flag balance should a flag be, balanced, nose heavy or tail heavy to stop the confusing twitches and instead filter the wind noise as you put it or should a flag be a certain weight.

To my thinking a light flag will have less inertia and be more responsive in light conditions and a heavy flag will have more inertia and be less responsive in light conditions.....which is better and why.

Thanks
Ian
 
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JerrySharrett said:
By far the most common is the one we call the Smiley flag, Why? Because they are made by Smiley Hensley.


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Most of the shooters in the Midwest and East use the Smiley flags, but I find the pin wheel is very distracting to me, so I use the Graham Flags that just has a painted black/white ball on the end, as I watch the tails more. Plus they are one of the brighter looking flag than most which is easier to see.
 
Unless you sponsor a flag rotation at a large match or never go to a large match you should really use smileys flags. At the SS 2 yrs ago only 2 rotations didnt have smileys flags and seeing them try to work with smileys is all you need to see to be sold on smileys. Or knowing that youll eventually have to shoot over em or just looking at what the HOF shooters are using- keeps smiley busy. All flags have pros and cons tho so get a good design and learn it
 
I'm not picking on any specific flag -- I see a lot of home-made flags where the (usually new) shooter goes to extraordinary efforts to showcase his machining/design talents by building his own flags. Ball-bearings in the top pivot, and/or on a daisy wheel-ish spinner. I'm a bit of a minimalist when it comes to mechanical design, so adding bearings and weights and balls and spinners means weight and inertia which offsets sensitivity -- but the purpose of the doodads was to increase sensitivity. So... the net ends up being expensive and complicated, and not necessarily better.

Flags with the entire vane behind the pin (Smiley and most others) usually get a counter-weight of some sort -- spinner, ball -- on a stick in front. The flags are sensitive in light conditions, but can become erratic in hard-blowing switchy conditions, because there is no automatic proportional dampening effect to 'filter' the noise. As well, a spinning disk on the front of the flag has perpendicular gyroscopic inertia that pushes direction shift in one way and stalls it in the other. The heavier the spinner, the more pronounced the effect.

My preference follows the design principle of the tail surfaces on a Piper SuperCub -- a light airplane known for its superb 'feel'. The substantial portion of the vane is behind the hinge pin, but there is a percentage that is in front of the pin. Wind force pushing on the (major) back half is automatically 'dampened' an appropriate proportional amount by the same wind force acting in the opposite direction on the front half of the flag. About 15-20% of the surface area of the flag in front of the hinge pin seems about right to me. Not statically balanced like a fancier flag, but definitely dynamically balanced with respect to proportional forces honestly counteracting each other at all wind velocities.

Bottom line is that different flags styles have compromises built in that may or may not be important in one person's 'average' conditions. I've loved the daisy wheel when it made it easy to see a velocity change at St Louis. I hated them when rattling in a 15-20mph shifting wind with 5mph pulses in it. Nothing against the guys making flags for profit (I do it myself), but shelling out big bucks for a set of tops and that much more for stands is one of those areas where I think we could make "B"enchrest more accessible. I sell flags, but I'm just as happy to pass on my design if someone wants to make their own.
 
Thanks CubCouper, seems like some flag types are better in some conditions while other flag types are better in other conditions.
Perhaps that's why one day you can read them and another day it's like they're speaking a foreign language.

When I look at the commercially available windflags with bearings I'd guess they would be lighter than a windflag with a daisy wheel on the front........might be educational to find out.
 
Best Wind Flags??

It Depends. Several years ago,at Seymour,Tx, GCR Shooter Joe Kubon showed up with a very unique wind indicator. We all laughed at him while he set this indicator up in front of his bench

Joe came close to winning the two gun,using his never before seen indicator. I think he said,one of his pigs stopped flying near the end of the match. Joe may Chime in and refresh my memory:D







Glenn
 
While we're here...why are wind flags painted different colors on opposing sides? It ain't like we don't know which way they're blowing....
 
At the Visalia range, which is basically a bathtub with near vertical sides that are right next to shooting lanes, a shooter's flags often disagree with each other and switch rapidly. For me, having vanes with different colors on each side makes it easier to remember the condition that a group starting shot was fired in. I understand that there are ranges where the prevailing conditions generally have all the flags blowing in the same direction. Wouldn't that be nice!

One thing that recommend to shooters who are in the process of choosing which flags to buy, is that they spend some time studying them at a match, to see which ones are the easiest for them to keep track of. Looking at what is out there, this may vary from person to person.
 
If that's what you want...I have some that always show the same direction...every one, same thing :)

I was watching a white "thing" at the end of the target frames that would now and then change color. When it was white, I'd shoot and when it was black i didn't. I was winning (3 targets I think) until I mentioned what I was doing and was told that was what they used to tell whether the backer motor was running. I didn't shoot worth a darn after that! Yeah, I laughed too when I heard similar stories...and thought the stories were embellished a bit. Turns out they were likely true. I got some new glasses pretty soon after that as it surely looked like a flag to me.

Then there was a fellow in Georgia that said he was watching a single flag, two benches to his left, and he was killing us all. The wind was somewhat horrible but it was working for him....until he shot over an inch (100yds). Thank goodness I had warned him just before that happened. Not because I didn't want him to shoot a big group but rather because I was able to say "Told You So!"
 
Chism G said:
It Depends. Several years ago,at Seymour,Tx, GCR Shooter Joe Kubon showed up with a very unique wind indicator. We all laughed at him while he set this indicator up in front of his bench

Joe came close to winning the two gun,using his never before seen indicator. I think he said,one of his pigs stopped flying near the end of the match. Joe may Chime in and refresh my memory:D







Glenn
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Glenn, more proof that pigs actually fly!!


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