Winchester 52 International Match Help!

[TIDCT]

Hi,
I just discovered this site and it is great. I need some help in determining the value and the best place to sell a Winchester Model 52 International Match 22LR. I have owned the gun for over 25 years and I have not used it in 20 years. The gun is in perfect condition and it has a Lyman Super Targetspot Scope and all the accessories plus the the Redfield Olympic iron front and rear sights. My whole family was involved in shooting but when my town closed the school gun club my kids and wife lost interest. I am a skeet shooter and it seems a shame to have this collector gun just sitting in my gun cabinet.

I would like some ideas as to the value so that I can be a fair seller.

Thanks for the help. I can e-mail photos if that helps.
Ed

 

[Colt.45]

Hopefully

Steve Emmert will see this post and reply.He is the "go to guy" on Winchester 52's.
Colt.45

 

[rbs]

52 Winchester

PM sent

 

[TIDCT]

Some Photos

As requested here are some photos of the Winchester 52D

 

[TIDCT]

A few more photos

I have added a few more photos. Thanks for the advise.
Ed

 

[BrianJ]

52 - i

Ed,

Nice looking rifle and it has a Kenyon trigger, thats a plus. You refer to the rifle as a 52-"D", is it a "D" made into an International or "E"? Serial would help. If a Win. International do you have the original Palm rest and handstop?

bjm

 

[TIDCT]

Ed,

Nice looking rifle and it has a Kenyon trigger, thats a plus. You refer to the rifle as a 52-"D", is it a "D" made into an International or "E"? Serial would help. If a Win. International do you have the original Palm rest and handstop?

bjm

Thanks, It is a great looking rifle. It is a D (SN #117XXXD) that was a factory International Match. It is my understanding Winchester made D and later E International Match Rifles. What you see in the photos is what I have. I don't know if the palm rest I have is the original or aftermarket. Thanks for the "Kenyon Trigger" info. I did not think the trigger was stock. It has a very light touch.
Ed

 

[JohnnyO]

52 international

Your Kenyon trigger was a factory option. It will enhance the price also. 52 internationals in mint condition have sold in the 4000.00 range in the last couple of years. You did not go into much detail about the condition-so its hard to tell. If the scope goes with the gun it would also add some value.

 

[BrianJ]

52-i

I don't try to put a value on a rifle. However just last month a similar 52 (no scope) sold on an auction sight for under $1500 and it was listed more than once. I'm not suggesting anything by that observation.

Ed, do you know who owned the rifle prior and bought it new? I ask because I have a feeling this was not a factory produced 52-I. Not to take anything away from the rifle but it has an exceptionally low number for a "D" in that stock.
Even the early made models had Winchester accessories. The early "I's" stocks I'm familiar with had a couple slightly differing points than the standard later version that this stock is.

At the time Freeland would put one of his stocks on a 52 and everything other than the barreled action is Freeland.
Many also came about because 52-I's were stripped of the stock and hardware to make prone rifles using the barreled action. I did on mine and sold my stock and hardware to a shooter from another state who put a "D" into it.

Steve will probably know a lot better than most.

Still a very nice rifle - bjm

 

[TIDCT]

Your Kenyon trigger was a factory option. It will enhance the price also. 52 internationals in mint condition have sold in the 4000.00 range in the last couple of years. You did not go into much detail about the condition-so its hard to tell. If the scope goes with the gun it would also add some value.

Hi Johnny,
I understand that the Kenyon was one of three trigger options and that they made 317 with this trigger. The rifle is in excellent condition both the wood and the bluing. It has not had much use and it has been sitting in my gun cabinet for the last 20+ years. I think I would like to sell it all together. Would you guess the correct asking price might be $5,000 to $5,500?
Ed

 

[greg]

Johnny...

Your Kenyon trigger was a factory option. It will enhance the price also. 52 internationals in mint condition have sold in the 4000.00 range in the last couple of years. You did not go into much detail about the condition-so its hard to tell. If the scope goes with the gun it would also add some value.

my copy of Houze states the 52D was available in standard or heavy weight barrel config. as well as the Model 52D International Match Rifle with 28" heavy weight barrel and with a Kenyon trigger or with ISU trigger at extra cost. It was introduced in 1969. "Elegant in form and possessing unparalleled shooting characteristics, the International Match Rifle equaled anything offered by the Company's European competitors. In addition to being available with a Winchester designed trigger (G5208R), the model could be fitted at extra cost with either a Kenyon trigger (G5210R) or an International Shooting Union trigger (G5211R). Interestingly, sales of the version having the Kenyon trigger far outstripped those fitted with the other options. In all, a total of 310 IM Rifles with Kenyon triggers were shipped, against 188 with the Win trigger and 3 with the ISU trigger." Interestingly Houze's book states the D's were serial numbered between 108,000 and 114,000. This doesn't seem to make sense given this rifles number? Regarding the Kenyon trigger, I have a C with Karl's modification and I can see why his trigger was preferred. They are just the best!

If it was an E the E would preceed the serial number. The E serial number range was from E123,000 to E125,000 with only 37 shipped between 1975 and 1980(Houze).

OK, LETS SHELVE THE HOUZE SERIAL NUMBERS. I'M NOT SAYING THIS ISN'T A 52D INTERNATIONAL, JUST TRYING TO LEARN VS THE REFERENCES I HAVE. I DID PUT A ? AFTER HIS ASSERTION. TKS

 

[TIDCT]

I don't try to put a value on a rifle. However just last month a similar 52 (no scope) sold on GB for under $1500 and it was listed more than once. I'm not suggesting anything by that observation.

Ed, do you know who owned the rifle prior and bought it new? I ask because I have a feeling this was not a factory produced 52-I. Not to take anything away from the rifle but it has an exceptionally low number for a "D" in that stock.
Even the early made models had Winchester accessories. The early "I's" stocks I'm familiar with had a couple slightly differing points than the standard later version that this stock is.

At the time Freeland would put one of his stocks on a 52 and everything other than the barreled action is Freeland.
Many also came about because 52-I's were stripped of the stock and hardware to make prone rifles using the barreled action. I did on mine and sold my stock and hardware to a shooter from another state who put a "D" into it.

Steve will probably know a lot better than most.

Still a very nice rifle - bjm

There seems to be a lot of confusion on the 52 SN#s. It seems Winchester assigned number from 108XXX to 114XXX to the D series and the E series range was #123XXX to125XXX. My number is 117XXXD. I'm sure it is a factory model. It was purchase from a New Haven area resident (home of the old Winchester). The rifle sure look like the one in the Winchester Ad I was sent. If someone bought a 52D International Match on GB for $1,500 they may have gotten a great deal. Thanks for your input.
Ed

 

[BrianJ]

52-i

Better put the Houze book away on this one. Most especially on the "D" and "E" chapters. These are either lacking data or a good portion of what is said is incorrect. This includes the serial number portion.

Your number falls within the known correct numbers for a "D", no question.

bjm

 

[JohnnyO]

52 international

Sir: In my opinion 5000.00 would be a little high even with your scope. I would not be surprised if you got around 4500.00 though. Tight money right now would definately affect the price. Like I said before though-in the last couple of years I have seen some mint 52 internationals sell for over 4000.00. at a amoskeag auction in 2006 one brought 4312.50- Some rock island auctions have had them bring over 4000.00. One I know of at a private sale brought 3500.00. Keep in mind though-these are mint original guns with all the accessories. I don't know anything about the 1500.00 gun that the other fellow is talking about but I will buy them all day at that price in mint original condition. I have been collecting 52's for over 30 years and have several- some are pictured in the 52 book by Houze. My 52 E intternational was bought after the book came out or it would probably have been pictured. Regrettably Herb didn't do his best work on the D and E sections of the book. There are some mistakes in the book but very few. This is probably one of the hardest models to write about because the factory didnt have alot of information. Herb done the best he could do and I applaud him for that. I have a library of gun books in my home and I don't have a one that doesnt have mistakes.

 

[BrianJ]

52 - i

John,

I agree with you and am well aware of those auctions. I think the magic words were" Mint" and "Original". On this one, nice as it appears, I find more questions than answers, most of which I've brought up. The final question, and I have no data on the dates, is the trigger guard and rail. I've never seen a mixed color combination. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the early 52-I's had all aluminum color (silver) trigger guard and rail. Somewhere about 1972 or so they changed to all black guard and rail. Point here being the color of both always matched.

I'm sure it will all get thrashed out.

bjm

 

[seewin]

Brian is right about the low serial number. All the D Internationals I have seen are in the 122XXX or above. Keep in mind that the D International was not introduced until mid year 1969. A "D" with a 117XXX serial number will raise a lot questions. That is not to say that it could have built off an older action that set around at Winchester and was never used. I would want to look the gun over before I said for certain. There are unique features to the Internationals that the Marksman stocked guns did not have. I believe you will find the serial number on this particular gun dates it somewhere around 1965 if memory serves me. This is a full 4 years prior to the International introduction.
Brian is also correct about the stocks and all accessories being offered by Freeland for sale to the general public. I have seen more "made up" Internationals than original. In fact there have been a couple sold by CMP in just the last couple of years.
I believe a detailed inspection is the only way to determine its originality for certain.
Steve

 

[JohnnyO]

52 international

Hey Brian J: I agree with you on both accounts- I have never seen a mixed rail and trigger guard either. The gun seems way to early to be a parts clean up gun that we know winchester would do when they were getting ready to discontinue a model.(seen alot on model 70's as you know). Another good point you mentioned was about the gun being mint and original. I hope I wasn't misleading the man into thinking he had a 4000.00 gun unless it was original and mint.(The only way it would even be close to that kind of money)Anything that is not original will affect the price considerably. If I was this gentleman- I would take the gun to a gun show and get some opinions or to somebody thats up on 52's.

 

[dbl]

I am skeptical that rifle shipped from Winchester with that stock, unless it was some kind of a prototype. Being from a collection in New Haven, that is a possibility.

 

[seewin]

dbl, Winchester DID provide this stock on their Internationals from the factory. It was produced by Freeland and sold to Winchester. The question is whether this particular rifle being so early in production, came originally with this particular stock, and is in fact an International model.
Steve

 

[TIDCT]

Gentlemen,
I want to thank you for all your interest and input to my original question. I did not intend my question be be a quest for originality. I know the rifle is what it is and it is in "original" and I would consider it to be in "Mint" condition. I purchased it as a user, not a collector ,in the early 1980's. It was purchased from the son of a Winchester employee who I understand was from the upper ranks of the Winchester Co. My town is a bedroom community of New Haven and many of the better paid Winchester employees lived here. In fact my first exposure to shooting was in the late-50's. Winchester had a youth shooting program and I remember as a kid going to their range in New Haven to shoot. Unfortunately due to lack of funds from my folks that did not last long.

In the early 80's these guns were available and there would be no reason for someone to go through the trouble and expense to make a "Clone". Maybe as time past and they became rare, unavailable and collectible some clones may have been produced.

I do know that in 1977 the E-Internationals could be and were purchased for$525.00. I'm sure the cost to clone one would not make it feasible at that time.

We all can speculate about the serial numbers and I don't think there is any correct answer as to what the real story is. When Winchester was producing these rifles they did not consider them as future collectors items but semi-production rifles that were part of their product line.

A comment was made from another poster that lots of the 52 International Match Rifles were converted into prone rifles and their parts sold off. Well anything is possible but that does not make economic sense when and if these rifles are so rare and valuable and the abundance of 52D's and 52D's with the bull barrel would be a much more effective choice.

The issue of the trigger guard and rail color is interesting. I don't know if the trigger guard was supplied from Kenyon with the triggers or came out the parts box at Winchester. I find it hard to believe that Winchester was so style conscious as to be concerned about a color match.

I also understand that in 2005 a 52E was sold at the CADA show in Illinois for $5,400 with out a scope. It was NIB so that would add value. I was also informed by another board member that he recently purchased the same scope that I have for $750.00 on ebay and he was happy to find it. What my rifle is worth in the real world is what someone is willing to pay for it and what I am willing to sell it for. My original question was for guidance so that if I were to sell it I would be a fair seller. I would not want to take advantage of a buyer nor do I want to be taken advantage of.

All the recent research I have done has made me interested and excited about the Winchester 52's. So interested I may start collecting them. I already have one of the "Crown Jewels" of the 52 world. Now thats a nice place to start a collection and the rest should be easy.

Thanks again for all your input and again you guys may have a new collector in your ranks. Hopefully you guys won't be bidding against me on any future purchases (lol).
Boy is my wife not going to be happy!

Happy New Year
Ed