Wilson dies advice please

N

nelson

Guest
Do you guys use any lube when neck sizeing with Wilson dies? I am making up some 222 rounds with Lapua brass and the sizeing seems to take more effort than I expected. I'm not sure if the bushing is Wilson or Redding, would it make a difference? Thanks.
 
Nelson ...

I use lube when sizing because I always full length size. Even though I'm using carbide neck bushings, I take a little lube from the case body with my fingers, and apply some to the neck about every third case. :)
 
Bushing

How much are you sizing the necks? You don't need to size anymore then .002 or .003. I'm not sure but Wilson bushing used to be soft. I would use the Redding coated if you can't do carbide. I always full length size but I never put lube on the necks.
Bob Dodd
 
I use graphite on the necks when sizing. Still, it shouldn't take much force to size a neck unless the bushing is on the smallish side.
 
I'm sizeing down .003 and only half the neck length. Really just needed to know if I should use lube with the Wilson dies or is it not necessary.
 
Bob Dodd said:
How much are you sizing the necks? You don't need to size anymore then .002 or .003. I'm not sure but Wilson bushing used to be soft. I would use the Redding coated if you can't do carbide. I always full length size but I never put lube on the necks.
Bob Dodd
Click to expand...

Bob, what is the reason you don't lube the necks?
 
Nelson ...

nelson said:
Really just needed to know if I should use lube with the Wilson dies or is it not necessary.
Click to expand...

With steel bushings lubing is usually recommended. With coated and carbide bushings it's usually not needed although some sources recommend it every few cases to keep the inside of the bushing slightly lubricated ... regardless of die manufacturer. Lubricating won't hurt a thing. :)
 
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Hi Nelson, I lube the necks with Imperial Sizing Die Wax with my Wilson dies. Its cheap, easy on, easy off, and a can last forever. Good Shooting, Lightman
 
For neck sizing only....

As abintx stated, lube won't hurt a thing. The "pro" is any benefit that lube might offer to metal rubbing together. The "con" is that you have to remove the lube....or maybe not...but the word on the street says remove it.

If you go the no lube route, just the opposite. Your bushing will wear such that your grandchildren will need to buy a new bushing but you won't have to wipe the cases with your fave carcinogen and your thumb won't be black until Wednesday.

Keep in mind that neck sizing is performed for the sole purpose of mashing the neck such that it will hold the bullet somewhere near where you want it held. Thought and time spent beyond that end is a waste.
 
Wilbur said:
For neck sizing only....

As abintx stated, lube won't hurt a thing. The "pro" is any benefit that lube might offer to metal rubbing together. The "con" is that you have to remove the lube....or maybe not...but the word on the street says remove it.

If you go the no lube route, just the opposite. Your bushing will wear such that your grandchildren will need to buy a new bushing but you won't have to wipe the cases with your fave carcinogen and your thumb won't be black until Wednesday.

Keep in mind that neck sizing is performed for the sole purpose of mashing the neck such that it will hold the bullet somewhere near where you want it held. Thought and time spent beyond that end is a waste.
Click to expand...

lissen to this guy!

al
 
Lube

What I have seen when lubing the neck and full length sizing is a little to much on the neck can dent the shoulder. I do use carbide bushings and only lube the body, none on the shoulder or neck. Also to much or to little lube can change the dimentions of the neck. But what do I know, 32 years shooting BR and as a tool maker. Sizing only half the neck can bend it. Full length sizing aliens the case before the neck is sized and makes better ammo ( less run out) A simple test can confirm this for the none believers. When you say you are only sizing .003 are you sure, how big are your necks on a fired case?
Bob Dodd
 
Bob, I didn't explian my measurements too well. The fired case is 0.252" case wall thickness 11 thou each side and the bushing is 0.243, bullet of course is 0.224". Unless my math is well out after sizeing I'm left with one thou to hold the bullet. You have got me thinking about this full length sizeing ! I decided to get the Wilson dies and neck size half the neck after watching the bench rest guys last year in Arizona doing just that, on the range. I didn't think you could bend the neck by sizeing half of it especially in a Wilson chamber type die. I was told to work as little of the brass as possible and that if the round is to be fired in one gun only then neck sizeing is all that's required. I'm new to all this so very keen to get it right. Please keep your comments coming. Thanks for all the replies so far.
 
Another way to think about it - please check my math!

To eliminate excessive neck sizing you first need to determine the optimum neck wall thickness for your chamber. Neck wall thickness dictates bushing size.

Your fired case measures .252. It's likely that your chamber is .001 in excess of that but let's go with .252.

.252 minus bullet diameter (assuming .224) = .028. Measure the bullet rather than assume.

.028 divided by 2 is the neck wall thickness where you have zero neck clearance (loaded round) = .014

Zero neck clearance is not what you want so .001 clearance all around would require the neck wall thickness to be .013.

.224 + 2 (.013) = .250 = .002 total clearance = .001 all around.

A .249 bushing would probably give you some neck tension with newer cases and swap to a .248 (or turn the .249 over - number down) for older cases. The necks tend to spring back a bit after multiple firings. Some folks anneal their necks and some folks simply change bushings.

Again, please check my figures (everybody) as an oversize round is dangerous. Please feel free to disagree with passion.
 
Pete Wass said:
to get too much neck tension? :D
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If the tension doesn't cause damage to the bullet base, I don't think so. The brass yields at the same pressure regardless of how small you size the neck. The instantaneous "available" pressure renders any felt difference in the press handle so very pale.
 
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