Will Someone Give Me A Simple Answer?

Years ago

I use to participate in Club Factory matches. I had a 6MM Rem then I used in the matches. I use to find pretty good accuracy at .015 off the lands, as I recall. More recently I owned a BAT full 308 HBR rifle. I use to shoot 112's and 118's in it but it had zero freebore. And more recently, one of my traveling companions screwed up and got his bullets seated .009 off the lands and that rifle shot bullets into one hole all season that year atr that seating depth.

Another bullet you might want to try is the Speer TNT 125G. They are fantastic bullets for machine made bullets. I have a Swiss straight pull and it absolutely loves them as well as a number of my other rifles do.

Bottom line here is it is not absolutely necessary to have bullets on or in the lands to have the rifle shoot well. It may also be possible to shoot lighter bullets which will make the rifle more pleasurable to shoot. Heck, try em.

Just an observation; I have always found it interesting that Federal ammo seems to be remarkably accurate in a big number of rifles I seen over the years. Apparently they do their homework very well.
 
Last edited:
Pete Wass said:
Just an observation; I have always found it interesting that Federal ammo seems to be remarkably accurate in a big number of rifles I seen over the years. Apparently they do their homework very well.
Click to expand...


Weirdly enough I've had the same experience. It's hard to make loads which outperform Federal factory loads in factory rifles.


al
 
308 5-r

Boyd- the 5-r has the same h and s stock that the sendero/vssf. with a bedding block in it.
 
My Custom BBL is a 5R but what is this?

One of my rifles has a Rockcreek 5R BBL. Its a cut rifled BBL 5 lands shaped like a pyrimid with tops cut off. So is this Remington BBL cut rifled? Broughton make a 5C BBL its 5 lands that were button rifled. So what does Remington mean by " 5R" ?
 
Back to the bedding thing... Shooters ,that lack experience in this area, often underestimate the importance of getting bedding right as a first step to getting the most out of a rifle. IMO this should be taken care of before much effort is expended on load development. All Remingtion actions (except the older40XB BRs) are ever so slightly warped in heat treatment, so their beddinig surfaces are not a true cylinder. This means that, despite manufacturers protestations, they require bedding for optimal performance, even when a stock has an aluminum bedding block. The block is probably straight, and the action is definitely not. Another often overlooked area is scope mounting. On factory actions the surfaces that scope bases sit on are often less than true, and bedding the bases to the action, and lapping and "dehorning" the rings is an excellent idea, before mounting a scope. The typical setup bends the scope as the ring caps are tightened and/or leaves marks on the finish of the scope. This is why ring marks are so common on used scopes. IMO anything that stresses the action, be it less than perfect bedding, or a bad scope mount, degrades accuracy. Another thing, I believe that ammunition straightness is more of an issue when bullets are jumped, as is consistent neck tension.
 
My Simple Answer is..........

I feel this testing method works with all bullets in factory rifles. How much the bullet jumps is not important. What is- have the round centered in the chamber. Only size 1/2 of the neck with the bushing die. Control how much you bump the shoulder back when FLRS.
Getting the Best Precision and Accuracy from VLD bullets in Your Rifle
Background

VLD bullets are designed with a secant ogive. This ogive shape allows bullets to be more efficient in flight (retain more velocity = less drop and wind deflection). While this result is desirable for many rifle shooters the secant ogive on the VLD bullets produces another result in many rifle. It can be difficult to get the VLD to group well (poor accuracy).

For years we encouraged shooters to use a base of cartridge to end of bearing surface OAL (I will use the term COAL to represent this dimension) which allows the VLD to touch the rifling or to be jammed in the rifling. This provided excellent results for many shooters but there were others who did not achieve top performance with the VLD jammed in their rifling. These shooters were left with the belief that the VLD bullets just won’t shoot in their rifle.

Other groups of shooters were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling. Some of these shooters knew that at some point during a target competition they will be asked to remove a live round. With the bullet jammed in the rifling there was a good chance the bullet will stick in the barrel which could result in an action full of powder. This is hard on a shooter during a match.

Yet another group of shooters who were discouraged by our recommendation to touch the rifling are those who feed through magazines or have long throats. Magazine length rounds loaded with VLDs could not touch the lands in most rifles (this is the specific reason that for years we said VLD bullets do not work well in a magazine). When a rifle could be single fed but was chambered with a long throat a loaded round that was as long as possible still would not touch the rifling.

Until recently, shooters who suffered from these realities were believed to be unable to achieve success with VLD bullets. Admittedly, we would receive the occasional report that a rifle shot very well when jumping the VLD bullets but we discounted these reports as anomalies. It was not until the VLD became very popular as a game hunting bullet that we were then able to learn the truth about getting the VLD bullets to shoot well in a large majority of rifles.

After we proved that the Berger VLD bullets are consistently and exceptionally capable of putting game down quickly we started promoting the VLD to hunters. We were nervous at first as we believe the VLD needed to be in the rifling to shoot well and we also knew that most hunters use a magazine and SAMMI chambers. Our ears were wide open as the feedback was received. It was surprising to hear that most shooters described precision results by saying “this is the best my rifle has ever shot.”

We scratched our heads about this for awhile until we started getting feedback from hunters who were competition shooters as well. Many were the same guys who were telling us for years that the VLDs shoot great when jumped. Since a much larger number of shooters were using the VLD bullets with a jump we started comparing all the feedback and have discovered the common characteristics in successful reports which gave us the information needed to get VLD working in your rifle. We were able to relay these characteristics to several shooters who were struggling with VLD bullets. Each shooter reported success after applying our recommendation.

Solution

The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith
Click to expand...
http://02b0516.netsolhost.com/blog1/?p=43
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top